New - and wanting some advice for making my own hilts!

[nos2k]

Hey guys

Brand new to this line of hobby, but in my dayjob i do alot of prototype design in 3d.

I have a small workshop, but ive always been wanting a metal lathe, and get started in that area.

Can anyone here perhaps help me answer the following question:

What is the smallest type of metal lathe, i could get away with buying, where i could ( if skills are good enough ) get away with making my own custom hilts from a-z?

Ive been seeing alot of lathes, but since im so new to it, i dont know if theres a minimum requirement that has to be fullfilled, or say if not all metal lathes can do aluminium ( or if thats easier than steel ? ) - what about lenght of material etc.

Also, and im assuming they all can do this, being able to make screw threads is a must; is this a super hard skill to master, or something thats trivial to do on any lathe?

Any advice would be very much appreciated

[minorhero]

You certainly want to jump into the deep end! I don't own a metal lathe but do own a wood lathe. From that experience and having looked into metal lathes before I will say that the limiting factor for you will be bed length. The longer the bed the longer a hilt you can turn in one piece. Most hilts are under 12" so I think you can get away with a 12" lathe. That said, ignoring tooling and buying the cheapest possible lathe you are still looking at an initial investment of 400-600$ in just the lathe. Than you will need tools plus stock which will likely run you at least as much again. That just gets you a lathe. If you only want to make grooves that go all the around in round stock then that is all you need. If however you want to make slats or holes or vents etc, then you will also need a mill. Which will likely run you a similar cost as the lathe. Call it 2k buying the cheapest stuff around before you have the bare minimum tooling to make a custom hilt. This is been what has kept me from doing the same thing.

[nos2k]

You certainly want to jump into the deep end! I don't own a metal lathe but do own a wood lathe. From that experience and having looked into metal lathes before I will say that the limiting factor for you will be bed length. The longer the bed the longer a hilt you can turn in one piece. Most hilts are under 12" so I think you can get away with a 12" lathe. That said, ignoring tooling and buying the cheapest possible lathe you are still looking at an initial investment of 400-600$ in just the lathe. Than you will need tools plus stock which will likely run you at least as much again. That just gets you a lathe. If you only want to make grooves that go all the around in round stock then that is all you need. If however you want to make slats or holes or vents etc, then you will also need a mill. Which will likely run you a similar cost as the lathe. Call it 2k buying the cheapest stuff around before you have the bare minimum tooling to make a custom hilt. This is been what has kept me from doing the same thing.

Hey

Thanks for the reply. I certainly see your point, but the way im looking at it, it might not be a bad investment, since i will be doing this ( and other stuff ) for a long...loong time.

However, i have found some pretty cheap things here; I can get a lathe with a mill for around 1000 usd - its alot of money, but then id be set.

My main concern, is not whether or not ill figure it out, but more of the "will i figure the essentials out, or just figure out that those are too extreme to do".

Like for instance, cutting the threads so you can make parts screw together. Ive watched some videos, and it seems to be fairly easy - any experience with that portion?

The way i see it, i dont need a very long lathe either, - i would never make a one piece hilt, id want to make it out of say 3-5 pieces, each of which can be screwed together; easier to build on, and probably also easier to get a final result you like, seeing as if you mess one part up, you can do that part again.

[minorhero]

1k for lathe and mill is actually in line with my previous advice. Remember you actually can't do anything with just a lathe or a mill or both together. You need the tooling to hold parts, and the cutting edges to create the effect you are looking for. The lathe is going to require at least one chuck, plus centers etc. The mill will require bits. The lathe will also require chisels. (Read more then one)

These things add up. I think you will find that you will need at least another 1k in tooling ontop of the cost of the lathe. Believe me I am not trying to discourage you. I have had the same idea and one day plan to do exactly what you are planning to do right now. I just want to set your expectations appropriately. As far as screwing parts of the hilt together. Well on that end I do have some experience. I am sure this can be done with a lathe, but I have always done it with a tap and die by hand. So long as your parts are the right size for the given tap and die then its real easy to do. Cheapy taps and dies can be had for under 100 dollars for the pair. Nicer ones more suited for actual professional use will run you 5 times that easy.

As for how to do things. Well if I were you I would search on youtube basics of metal lathe etc. You will find a lot of videos, some helpful, some not. Start watching. I think you will see what you need and don't need within a few hours.

[nos2k]

1k for lathe and mill is actually in line with my previous advice. Remember you actually can't do anything with just a lathe or a mill or both together. You need the tooling to hold parts, and the cutting edges to create the effect you are looking for. The lathe is going to require at least one chuck, plus centers etc. The mill will require bits. The lathe will also require chisels. (Read more then one)

These things add up. I think you will find that you will need at least another 1k in tooling ontop of the cost of the lathe. Believe me I am not trying to discourage you. I have had the same idea and one day plan to do exactly what you are planning to do right now. I just want to set your expectations appropriately. As far as screwing parts of the hilt together. Well on that end I do have some experience. I am sure this can be done with a lathe, but I have always done it with a tap and die by hand. So long as your parts are the right size for the given tap and die then its real easy to do. Cheapy taps and dies can be had for under 100 dollars for the pair. Nicer ones more suited for actual professional use will run you 5 times that easy.

As for how to do things. Well if I were you I would search on youtube basics of metal lathe etc. You will find a lot of videos, some helpful, some not. Start watching. I think you will see what you need and don't need within a few hours.


Yeah youre right - i didnt factor in tooling costs. I kinda figured youd get enough to start with.

Im looking at something like this: https://www.globaltools.dk/image/cache/catalog/produkter/Sieg/M1_drejebank_med_fraser-600x600.jpg - from the description (on the site i looked at) it seemed like the basic tools were already included.

A tap and die - for metal? Can you show me some links to the method? id be very interested in seeing this. All the taps etc i saw was for making small holes with threadings, not for threading say the inside of a pipe to the outside of another?

[darth_chasm]

I would suggest doing a lot of research and possibly taking a class at a local maker space or something. You'll find there is much to learn and that assumptions you may have now, will prove misguided.

I would suggest subscribing to and watching mrpete222 on Youtube. I watched him for 2 years before buying my machines and tooling (which cost just as much as the machines).

[nos2k]

I would suggest doing a lot of research and possibly taking a class at a local maker space or something. You'll find there is much to learn and that assumptions you may have now, will prove misguided.

I would suggest subscribing to and watching mrpete222 on Youtube. I watched him for 2 years before buying my machines and tooling (which cost just as much as the machines).

I can build a country in 2 years. Sorry, i cant work that way. Ill have a good look at his channels, and then tomorrow im going to call the shop that sells the machine and ask them and see what they say; youre probably right, it will take longer, be harder, and cost more. But what a great way to begin on something i always wanted to do i suppose :)

[minorhero]

Using a tap and die on something the size of a lightsaber is identical to using one on a 1/4" hole or rod. Just requires more force, not like super human force either. Though the wrench you use has longer handles to provide more leverage.

[PCModulus]

The mill will require bits. The lathe will also require chisels. (Read more then one)

Bits, meaning drill bits? How about end mills? What metal lathe requires chisels?

[nos2k]

I have tons of bits, i have a CNC machine in my shop, so im not worried about that. The lathe comes with some chisels - so i might need more, but i should be covered to begin with from what i can tell.

[darth_chasm]

Just to give you an idea of the tooling I got IN ADDITION to the very robust "starter" package that came with my machines.

Sherline 6200DROB Mill and Lathe. You can see everything it came with here http://sherline.com/product/6200-dro6210-dro-ultimate-machine-shop-dro-pkg/.


ADDITIONAL TOOLING


Compound Slide (#1270): For tapers, angles, etc


Thread-cutting Attachment (#3100)


Carbide Threading/Grooving Insert Tool Holder (#2267)


55° Carbide Insert Holders


Bullnose Live Center for tube and pipes


Compound Slide Riser Block (#1272): for large OD


Tailstock Riser Block (#1292): for large OD


Headstock Spacer (#1297): for large OD


Carbide Inserts threading


110 VAC Power Feed (#3001)


3.1" 4-Jaw Chuck (#1030): Better work holding.


Carbide Inserts grooving (#2270):


Quick Change Tool Post Set


Dial Indicator, Test Indicator, Magnetic Base & Point Set: A must!


Universal Arm for Indicators, Mini

2,3,4,6" Machinists Work Shop Squares Sets


3/8" Indexable Carbide Turning Tool Set


Machinists Handbook


Good calipers


Good micrometer


Good steel rule


Lighted Optovisor


Machinist level


Various oils, grease, and cutting fluids


Drill bits


Scriber


Center finder/wiggler


I've probably forgotten somethings and I still need more to do some things properly.


Hope this helps to give an idea.


For the machines you want to pay attention to capacity and power specs.


And for future knowledge, the common tools for lathes are called tool bits or cutters.

[nos2k]

Quite a list - i see your point.

Besides that (im investigating the prices and what i need now) - im stuck in choosing between two machines. Well three.

Maybe you can help me get closer;

Im looking at this:

https://www.globaltools.dk/maskiner/drejebaenke/metaldrejebaenke/drejebaenk_med_fraesemaskine_sieg_m1

Which has a built in top drill. Im assuming this will become handy for alot of stuff, like drilling a slot, making some finer details. And having it embedded in the lathe seems good, since youd already have the bit you wanna use the drill on, mounted in the lathe, so you could precisely drill your details by turning the lathe, and thereby getting it precise.

On the other hand, it seems that the actual lathe in this scenario, is not as good as the next option;

https://www.globaltools.dk/maskiner/drejebaenke/metaldrejebaenke/hobbydrejebaenk-sieg-c2-300-metaldrejebaenk

This seems to have more of it all - but no drill on top ( i dont know the english name for that.. here we call it a column drill ). I could buy one next to it. However, im unsure as to whether or not that will be annoying when you say want to drill 4 holes, on a tube, precisely on each "side". Seems like that would be alot easier with a 2-1 lathe.

And the last option for now, is this one:

https://www.globaltools.dk/maskiner/drejebaenke/metaldrejebaenke/hobby-250?sort=p.price&order=ASC

This, from what i can read is a bit higher quality, but a bit lower in some of the specs.

Finally, i know this can cost a ton; i dont mind it. Any start of anything ive ever done that was worthwhile, costs alot of money.

My main concern is simple:

Fun, Safety.

What i am hoping to achieve fairly fast, is the ability to machine hilts. Not one big hilt with tons of engravings, but say 3 pieces, a top a middle and a bottom. Each of which has screw threads, so they can be put together.

Once this is achieved, the next goal is to begin making lines, patterns, tapers. Then knurls, etc.

From what ive seen video wise, this seems very achievable skill wise, and im thinking all of these lathes should be able to do it; i dont see one that has a huge advantage over the others; except maybe for the one with the built in column drill - i could see some heavy use of that, making slots/vents, etc.

So with all of that in mind, and the fact that ive been wanting to get into lathes for nearly 10 years, can you guys advice me a bit here, based on the text above?

- and thank you all so far for your inputs.

[darth_chasm]

I would personally never buy a combo machine. Sure they seem convenient but I’ve read they have their own special problems and limitations. And a lathe chuck won’t hold a piece in place for drilling. You’d have to set the piece up in an indexing head, rotary table or vise.

I don’t have experience with the other machines so can’t comment on them. The size of things you want to work on will dictate the size of machine you need.

A column drill (drill press in US) and a mill are two very different machines. One drills and only drills. The other can perform both drilling and milling operations.

[nos2k]

Hey

Thanks.

Yeah i think i know which ones you mean; the column drill is the static one that goes down, and you can move the subject in a fixed position under it. The mill is where you can move both the drill and the bed, right?

Ill make some more calls tomorrow, and see if i can become any wiser :)