Proton Arc blade

[JediHilt]

The design looks something like this I will explain all the parts and the reasoning behind them in this post.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/M9man/stunbattonBP.png

My research originally began with German U.F.O's. I noticed that their craft would glow colors like red,blue,green,and purple (my mind automatically thought "LIGHTSABER" :twisted: ). Allied bomber pilots would often run into remote controlled drones that used this technology they called them Foo Fighters. The technology was designed by a man named Viktor Schauberger an Austrian scientist captured by the Germans during the war for his work on things related to Diamagnetism link:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=viktor+schauberger. Diamagnetism is basically the ability of a substance to repel magnetic fields and shield gravity in a strong magnetic field in this link you can research this effect:http://www.hfml.ru.nl/froglev.html and in this video you can see a frog defying gravity inside of a strong magentic field http://www.hfml.ru.nl/pics/Movies/frog.mpg Now moving on to how all this applies to my design the battery powers the motor and the motor spins a turbine that is nothing more than disk with an egg on it as you see in the picture this is spun inside of a cylinder full of water it produces a special vortex. (this effect can be demonstrated at home using a tall glass full of water, an egg, and a spoon to spin the water counter-clockwise) If you take a copper coil and submerge it in running creek water it creates a proton electrical current in the coil this is due to the vortex movement of water made by rivers and streams a vortex enhances waters diamagnetism so by increasing the power,RPM,size and so on this effect of a water vortex can be multiplied this is what the egg turbine in the picture does it spins the water into a vortex inside of a copper coil producing a high voltage of protons this is fed into the emitter. If you remember Bodi's designhttp://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/M9man/emiterbest.jpg this is basically how my emitter works now notice the superconductor a superconductor is a perfect diamagenetic diamagnetism repels magnetic fields therefore repelling the electric arc of the blade only my design uses a water vortex instead of a superconductor to produce diamagnetism http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/M9man/emitter2.jpg(arc spins around giving the blade the apearance of being solid) and one other difference is my design doesn't need a plasma injector my emitter makes it's own plasma Bodi's arc blade uses electrons my arc blade uses protons therefore emitting protons and air is negatively charged and you know what happends when a proton and an electron combine you get hydrogen gas and hydrogen gas under a high voltage turns into hydrogen plasma. excess voltage from the emitter is fed down into the circutry which acts as a voltage regulator for recharging the battery that is powering the motor so if atleast you partially understand all that the cycle goes like this: Step1/switch activated connecting power from the battery to the motor. Step2/motor spins turbine producing a water vortex which produces diamagnetism which produces proton voltage in the copper coil. Step3/emitter arcs the voltage in a circle and the diamagnetism of the generator relflects the arc out making it extend producing a blade and the protons emitted by the arc produce hydrogen plasma. Step4/ excess voltage from the emitter is fed down to the circutry to be regualted and fed into the battery for it's recharging to continue powering the motor. Step5/ cycle repeats untill power is cut from the motor.

Googling these search words might help your understanding:

Viktor Schauberger
repulsine
trout turbine
German UFO
Foo Fighter
diamagnetism
diamagnetic UFO

[Lord Maul]

first, you're a damn smart 10 year old. just had to get that out.

now,

batteries would last about 2 seconds on that. the whole feed excess power back to the battery is a myth, in fact, mythbusters busted it.

also, the egg will break on any significant impact so it wouldn't really be a dueling saber

finally, why doesn't high voltage seem like a good thing on a all metal hilt? any gap in the insulation would kill you

one more thing, this design would cost one hell of a lot to actually build.

that's all i can come up with right now :?
my opinion: cool concept, not happening in reality though :(

[JediHilt]

Maul the egg is made of metal it's the shape that produces a vortex in water not an actual egg and if you read my post again you will see it's the water vortex inside the copper coil that produces the voltage for the emitter not the battery the battery just runs the motor.

[elrond.406]

The power wouldn't last very long with that amount of drain...

[Lord Maul]

delete the second post, it double posted your comment

i still don't think it would be safe or reasonably priced to make though.
do you even know how many volts will be created in this beast?

lets let someone who actually knows about all of this high voltage stuff take over from here.

[JediHilt]

Actually the real risk if it works is that it's diamagnetism may get to strong causing it to repel gravity (levitate) and it has a 30inch hydrogen plasma blade for a thruster so it may take off on you :lol:.

[Lord Maul]

anti gravity is also a myth which the mythbusters busted :wink:

new problem

how would the plasm be contained? that would be a slight problem if it just went shooting :?

[JediHilt]

If you were to look up anti gravity at NASA you would find research on how a rapidly spinning super conductor actually lessened the weight of objects over it and you remember what I said about superconductors they are diamagnetic however a water vortex is hundreds of times more diamagnetic

watch the frog defy gravity this is due to diamagnetism http://www.hfml.ru.nl/pics/Movies/frog.mpg

[Lord Maul]

that thing isn't anti gravity, it just changes it.
it's hard to explain, but anti gravity is canceling out gravity and that doesn't, it just changes the item or atmosphere around them to make them weigh less

[elrond.406]

delete the second post, it double posted your comment


Not talking to me, right? Good.




i still don't think it would be safe or reasonably priced to make though.
do you even know how many volts will be created in this beast?



I agree.


lets let someone who actually knows about all of this high voltage stuff take over from here.

Like Bodi? :lol: Well he did konw telensa (however it's spelled) coils...

[Lord Maul]

tesla elrond

and i was referring to someone like Do Clo or James who actually know something about wiring and voltage (all that good stuff)

[JediHilt]

this is why I didn't want to share the design it gets into several areas that defy conventional laws of physics such as overunity (perpetual motion) and areas of diamagnetism such as levitation the research of these things are frowned upon by anyone with a college degree.

[Lord Maul]

i haven't graduated high school yet, but i still know that this is a very big and breakthrough technology and a pain in the arse to build. i'm not trying to criticize or anything, it just has some flaws that must be given attention before construction

[LordArgyll]

Mmm... science fiction.

Which is what it is. Even if some of the concepts are real science, throwing them all together into a functional, compact form is fiction. I'm sure I could nitpick it apart, but all the research to refute it would take more time that I want to invest right now. But I could guarantee you that the concept would not generate a significant amount of current, or at best do anything more than produce a faint blue glow at the emitter (ionized air... static electricity). Certainly it would not be enough to create a magically-contained plasma blade of any length.

Also, sounds like Schauberger was either a total genius, or a total crackpot.


Viktor himself claimed that powerful diamagnetic forces were responsible for the enormous effect. However, in the literature and in Viktor's own notebooks there is no evidence, if and if so how these devices worked.

I vote for crackpot.

[elrond.406]

this is why I didn't want to share the design it gets into several areas that defy conventional laws of physics such as overunity (perpetual motion) and areas of diamagnetism such as levitation the research of these things are frowned upon by anyone with a college degree.

:lol: You can always put out the $$$ (yes, I know you;'re young) and test it. Then you could report to us [, assuming we don't have to write a eulogy for you first! :wink:].

[JediHilt]

well we don't need liquid nitros to produce a strong enough diamagnetism we just need the right kindof vortex and as far as Viktor Schauberger being a Crackpot evidently he was smart enough to be capture by the Americans under Project Paperclip where they secretly grabbed a whole bunch of German scientists after the war to continue their research that they had conducted for the Germans. One of the things that caught my eye about diamagnetism was one day while doing research on German UFOs I found a picture about one design where giant cylinder was filled with mercury and pumped with thousands of volts casuing it to levitate eye witness acounts of this have been heard from German officers after the war this drove me nuts what on earth could a vat of mercury have to do with Viktor Schaubergers work on water vortexes untill I read that very same day about various Diamagnetic materials at the top of the list sure enough Mercury is highly diamagnetic and also in the list Copper all of Viktor Schaubergers designs that levitated or flew were made out of copper also a diamagnetic material.

[JediHilt]

Two prototypes were said to have been built at Kertl. The test flight was done without Schauberger's presence or even his permission to do the test. The model flew as described above but it did considerable destruction to the Kertl Works so there were mixed feels concerning the success of this flight. The force of levitation was so strong that it sheared six 1/4 inch diameter high-tensile steel anchor bolts on its way to the roof. Coats reports that according to Schauberger's calculations based upon previous tests, a 20 centimeter diameter device of this sort, with a rotational velocity of 20,000 rpm, would have lifted a weight of 228 tons (17).

That thing got a Hemi :lol:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://missilegate.com/rfz/images/068.jpg&imgrefurl=http://missilegate.com/rfz/schauberger.htm&h=480&w=600&sz=40&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=KMgP6QHfkDK1zM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dviktor%2Bschauberger%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den%26sa%3DX

[LordArgyll]

Posting reference from a conspiracy website is not the best way to lend yourself credibility. ;) There are a lot of "might haves" and "may haves" in the writing to be empirical.

Your design seems to be simple enough to build in a garage for little money. Have at it!

[JediHilt]

All I know is there is no better way of doing it we have to use diamagnetism it's the only way you will get the proton emission of the emitter instead of electrons so you get the plasma blade and the energy to make the blade extend and retract and the possibility of perpetual motion of the generator would solve the "we need plutonium in the hilt problem" so it seems the best possibility I mean what would you rather do work on diamagnetism which can be made small enough as is or try to figure out how to shrink our current technology for a lightsaber which right now would be the size of a M1 tank! not fitting a flashlight anytime soon :lol: .

[Ryma Mara]

I actually think this could work.

Question thats I cant figure otu thow is that say when you move things around wouldent the "blade" move also? Would it stay in a shape?

How would it work agenst another of the design? would the "blades" cause a issue like in ghost busters? dont cross the streams.

[JediHilt]

I think your asking will the blade warp when you move and will you be able to dual with it I actually think because of the high speed of rotation of the arc the blade will be rigid and not warp the diamagnetism will make it extend then the plasma will only be able to survive where the arc is so it should stay contained in a nice neat blade one risk that has been considered by plasma scientists on the building of a lightsaber is the risk of a blade being redirected by even a small magnet
just throw a refrigerator magnet at Mr Jedi and hes toast remember now my blade is diamagnetic and diamagnetism repels mamgnetic fields protecting the blade from outside influences there's yet another reason why diamagnetism is the key now as far as being able to dual yes the as long as 2 sabers are designed the same way (current flows in the same direction) the blades will repel eachother. here is a link on plasma lightsaber theories http://www.exn.ca/starwars/plasmasaber.cfm

[LordArgyll]

I haven't read anything yet to suggest you'll get anything more than the glow of ionized air around such a device... and that's certainly not the same thing as hydrogen plasma. It's static electricity.

From what I've read, there's theories on CREATING the implosion vortex with high voltage, but not GENERATING high voltage with it.

Some of the theories are nice, but I don't think they can be applied the way you're suggesting.

And I still think Schauberger was a new-age crackpot. The Germans were into researching the occult too... that doesn't make his work for the SS any more credible. They researched a lot of wacky stuff.

[jjshumpert]

im sorry to say guys but this theory has been around since i was in junior high and has been proven beyond the capability of production and outside the physical rules of our world. its a nice idea and all...

[JediHilt]

Here is the cycle of what is happening just incase any of you still don't understand.http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/M9man/sabercycle.png

[LordArgyll]

I understand what you think will happen. But even if the theory was sound, I think you're expecting too much voltage from such a small volume of water. The supposedly functioning generators were quite large.

You could build a prototype in a garage in an afternoon. Like I said, have at it. Prove me wrong.

[JediHilt]

All I really have to do is get the water chamber to generate a strong diamagnetic field that's it that's all it will take for it to work everything else about the design is perfectly doable the question is will the copper egg turbine generate enough diamagnetic energy? It may require a different design.

[Ryma Mara]

Try a more conductive/less cerosive(for long life) metal.

[JediHilt]

I have to use copper and water it's the only way you see there is a chain reaction that occurs between them when a water vortex flows through a copper coil or even just regular copper it generates electricity and diamagnetism so then the diamagnetism repels the electricity's magnetism creating a sort of chain reaction.

[LordArgyll]

I'm not entirely sure you understand that concepts. I haven't found any direct correlation between 'dimagenetism' and the creation of current/voltage. All of the examples I've seen use the kinetic energy generated by the vortex effect to turn a mechanically-connected generator. This release of protons you talk about appears as a faint blue glow -- ionized air. It's technically plasma in its own right, but it won't create a lightsaber's blade.

Dimagnetism tends to be linked to anti-gravity and repulsion... I'm not sure where you think that is useful in building a lightsaber. Unless you want a self-propelled lightsaber.

[JediHilt]

well it's not just the proton glow that is the blade it's also the arcing of voltage just like Bodi's design the glow just makes the blade look more real http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/M9man/emitter3.jpg because it can cause the blade to glow cool colors like green or purple which would be awsome and as far as power generation I did read that a coil submersed in a vortex generates power.

We should stop this now Argyll :D no sense arguing about an unknown technology lets just run the necessary experiments.

[JediHilt]

I think you're expecting too much voltage from such a small volume of wat

acording to Schauberger as well as other scientist

in 1 gram of substance, or 1 cubic centimeter of water, 25 million kilowatt hours of energy are stored!

I think even one cubic centimeter of water has enough power :D the only problem is undertsanding Scahuberger's technology in order to find the proper way to extract this power.

[Marsupial]

The reason most people with any science knowledge don't take that kind of theories for credible is that it relies on stuff that isn't possible in real-world...
In theory, you can have a perpetual movement machine. In practice you cannot as there are always losses. A good scientist knows where the theories won't work in practice, and sees when concepts are flawed. He also sees when there's some side effects that the designer omitted.
I know subways recovers energy from the breaking systems and that cars alternators recovers powers, but you'll always have losses. you cannot recharge the battery in a lostless situation. Been tried, don't work.

Generating incredible ammount of power is something the military is very interested in... if your ways would work, they'd use it and we wouldn't pay for electricity. The concepts announced by Schauberger aren't used nowaday, for several reasons. You think nobody tried it before you? if we'd need only a bit of matter, water, a small motor... you think we'd still have hydroelectric dams, nuclear power plant and the like? for a lot cheaper creating more power is definately something we'd use. Problem, it just doesn't work. Its a false theory.

While the concepts behind diamagnetism has been observed since the 1770s, the name emmerged in the 1840's by Farraday (yes, the same guy as farraday's cage and several electromagnetic concepts used today in engineering) Diamagnetics doesn't repel magnetic fields. That is false assumption. A diamagnet reacts to external fields.


Diamagnetism is a form of magnetism that is only exhibited by a substance in the presence of an externally applied magnetic field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism

Now... the concept behind diamagnetic levitation is very real, but its a matter of equilibrium - you can manage to diamagnetically levitate one specific object at a specific location with a specific magnetic field. Its not any kind of anti-gravity, its the equilibrium between gravity and magnetic fields around a diamagnetic object.

see: http://www.hfml.science.ru.nl/froglev.html

Flaws in your design: diamagnetism requires STRONG magnetic fields in order to react. Even if you could encase a way to create such strong magnetic field within a handle, it would still be dangerous - think about every metal parts around you being attracted to your hilt? that is a dangerous sight. The fact that you are using any diamagnetic objects won't save you for that, it requires a magnetic field from wich to react and you need to supply it - in your design its the motor's electromagnet that is supposed to create such mag field??

In the example above, they use a field of about 16 Tesla (the SI unit for measurment of field intensity for magnetic fields) and that works for something the size of a grasshopper - problem is: the strongest laboratory magnetic field generators generates about 20 tesla. I'm not even sure its safe for humains to be in contact with such strong magnetic fields, remember we have iron in our blood. In facts, studies indicates that small mag fields can influence biological bodies. As little as 300 miliTesla can increase bacterial cell growth; 15 minutes of exposing a rat to 100 miliT increases its heart rate.

as for even creating plasma in a controlled manner, good luck. I mean, everyone knows you can use your microwave to create plasma from Grapes

http://www.barnesos.net/homepage/lpl/grapeplasma/

but not a decent ammount of it unless you have LOTS of power (and in this case, grapes).

I don't understand the link in your mind behind a Vortex to create plasma. First of, with the metal egg device (or any means of spinning the water) you'll simply create a Vortex

a spinning, often turbulent, flow (or any spiral motion) with closed streamlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex
Now, what about you changing the orientation of the hilt? the water would be attracted down by gravity and your vortex would move and you'd loose control.
Even if you'd be able to control it, this Vortex won't serve you for any diamagnetic applications, it won't create a huge magnetic field. Remember, diamagnets reacts to magnetics fields.
I don't understand how the "vortex" would "power" your copper coils. Hydroelectricity is generated from water flow in the same sense as a dynamo, but a simple small vortex won't charge copper coils unless you have something to catch this movement and convert it in power. You won't get protons from "diamagnetics" unless you actually supply a proper mag field.
Now, let say you can charge your coils like you said. Do you know the power necessary to actually create hydrogen plasma?? Plasma is mainly ionized gas. Its considered as a 4th state of matter. You experienced it everyday in crookes tubes or cathode ray tubes (TV) - and requires lots of power (turn on the TV and see the power reduction in the house...)

Plasmas

are typically formed by heating and ionizing a gas, stripping electrons away from atoms, thereby enabling the positive and negative charges to move freely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_%28physics%29
Nowhere you have anything to generate plasma in your aparitus, no gas, no electrodes (well, the copper coils, but that wouldn't work)

Even if you can create such a plasma field, containing the said plasma isn't easy. Again, magnetism can be used to contain plasma, happy getting attacked by every metallic fork in the house.
I still don't understand what is it you think will contain the said plasma in your design. Uncontrolled plasma isn't something you want to have.


All in all, there are tons of flaws in the design, rendering it impossible.
Trust me, if making a plasma contained blade was something possible, the military would have that already and we'd have heard of it already... but thing is, theories have been around for ages, without being doable with real technology, less even in a flashlight-sized handle. You cannot make a concept do what you want, there's no such things as "magic". You need to better understand all the concepts you want to use and use them at your advantages, while counteracting the side effects and other phenomenon you want to avoid. Wanting a concept to work your way isn't ennough.



P.S.: there is no need to feel attacked by such posts. People tend to feel personally attacked when someone post counterargumentation to their theories, which is pointless. If you are to answer to such a post, I would expect counterargumentation, references and facts, not complaints about how people don't believe you and other useless comments on the matter. The reason I decided to post in this thread isn't for any kind of personnal attacks and feeling that way would only prove immaturity. I decided to post in here in order to help further the discussion based on facts instead of hear-say and fiction. If you have any fact to back your idea, lets have them. The ref material you gave us so far isn't reliable and even if it would be it doesn't help proving your theories... I can quote you Einstein, but if I'm not using his theories correctly, his work isn't any proof for my theories.

[JediHilt]

Marsupial do you really think the government wants free energy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: why do you think their pushing Hydrogen now because they can charge you for it go back as far as the 30's Tesla is getting ready to broadcast free energy to the world what happend to him what happend to that technology with 75 some odd years of advancements in education, knowledge of science, and computers here we are today and we supposedly still can't figure out how his devices worked are we so stupid we can't even understand a technology from the 1930's or are we just pretending to be stupid ?

[TimeRender]

What happened to that technology was that it just didn't work. Period. Tesla was a genius, make no mistake, but his claims and patents were often exaggerated. It's not that we don't understand technology from the 30s. It's that some of Tesla's "breakthroughs" were never really possible on the scales that he imagined them.

[LordArgyll]

I don't understand how the "vortex" would "power" your copper coils.

I think this is where his confusion (and one of the big flaws) lies. Schauberger was a effectively a new-age hippie and his observations were largely influenced by his metaphysical inclinations. He observed that water flowing through a coper tube would produce a release of protons, causing the water to glow. He attributed this to dimagnetism, and the release of "living" energy stored in the water.

Modern science would call this static electricity. Excitement of the electrons in the water moving in friction against the copper tube (a conductor). The glow is a corona discharge.


In electricity, a corona discharge is an electrical discharge brought on by the ionization of a fluid surrounding a conductor, which occurs when the potential gradient exceeds a certain value, but conditions are insufficient to cause complete electrical breakdown or arcing.

Sure, it's plasma in a real sense, but you can't get a lightsaber from it.

Schauberger's "real" generators were always mechanically coupled to a traditional dynamo -- either via a turbine driven by the force of his created vortex or centrifically by the vortex device itself. They never tried to derive power directly from the water. At least not in any of the examples I've read so far.


Marsupial do you really think the government wants free energy

FNORD. Of course the government would want free energy, if only for itself. As for charging for hydrogen, that's something anyone with access to a transformer, some wire, an AC outlet and a cup of water can make. Unless the government wants to start taxing water, I'm not sure how it could profit from hydrogen engines/fuel cells. Its biggest profit would be less reliance on foreign energy resources.

[JediHilt]

there may be truth to what your saying but that doesn't make sense from one standpoint if the guy was a fraud then why did the German SS upduct him?

[LordArgyll]

The Third Reich was interested in anything that might potentially give it the upper hand in the war. In addition to researching new and unusual technologies they also had a vested interest in the occult and the paranormal (which Shauberger's research would fall under.) For that matter, so was the U.S.... hence Project Paperclip.

Wackiness all around.

[JediHilt]

Well let's say the SS heard false rumors about him so they abducted him and found out he was a fraud if that is true they either would of hung him or imprisoned him not let him continue work on their projects so he must of known what he was doing.

[TimeRender]

How would they have known he was a fraud if they didn't allow him to continue his work?

I think this one of those "proof is in the pudding" situations. The proof that this technology was a dead-end is the fact that it isn't in use today. If he had been even moderately successful, other scientists would have continued his works and everyone would have their very own water powered lightsabers and spaceships and digital watches.

[JediHilt]

If you invented a small very simple easily inderstood and replicatible device that produced over unity and you tried to get a patent for it so you can sell it.....believe me I wouldn't want to be you when they find you.

[TimeRender]

I am certain that I don't have a clue what you meant in your last post.

[LordArgyll]

Conspiracy theorist hogwash. If they had really tried to suppress his work, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now because we wouldn't have known about him.

I wouldn't call Shauberger a fraud... some of his theories seem sound. But some of his theories dabble in the metaphysical rather than the physical. The functionality of his "implosion" vortex UFO could be explained by simple aerodynamics rather that dimagnetism, but of course conspiracy theorists decry these explanations as attempts to debunk his "revolutionary" theories. There's lots of claims about its functionality, but where is the evidence?


Well let's say the SS heard false rumors about him so they abducted him and found out he was a fraud if that is true they either would of hung him or imprisoned him not let him continue work on their projects so he must of known what he was doing.

Let's remember that he wound up in a mental ward following his work with the SS, supposedly because of the stress they put on him. Uh-huh. "Stress" indeed. :wink:

[JediHilt]

Hey Argyll I found that one UFO engine I was talking about that was full of mercury Google the word "Xerum 525" it's fascinating the simularities between Viktor Schauberger's Repulsine and this device called the bell
both have counter rotating votices of a supposedly atomic modified medium (Schauberger claimed the implosion of the repulsine was so strong it broke the atomic bonds of the air/water in the device releasing atomic energy and Xerum 525 is radioactive).