Blowing momentary switches

[Schwizzle]

So, I keep on blowing the LED's in my momentary switches. I got it to work one time, but I tried different wiring according to a diagram I pulled from Amazon, and then went back to the original way I was doing it (based on another diagram from Amazon), and now it isn't working either. The diagrams are below

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However, these diagrams don't really show what the terminals are themselves. The bottom one is grounds but ground for the switch, or the LED?

What I have in mind is to have two illuminated switches, one that will come on/off via recharge port and kill key, and the other wired directly from the power source (18650, 3.7) that will turn on and off whenever I press the button. I am using a NB v3, and DynaOhm resistors. I've only done alligator clips/no soldering to test the connections.

Both diagrams looked like they would apply to what I want to do, but I'm not sure now.

[Silver Serpent]

If you have switches from the TCSS store, the LED terminals are labeled in this diagram:

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/GetImage.ashx?maintainAspectRatio=true&maxHeight=300&maxWidth=300&Path=%7e%2fAssets%2fProductImages%2fSMRNRc.jpg

The unlabeled terminals are for the switch mechanism itself.

If the LED in the switch is blowing, then your resistor isn't being wired correctly. The DynaOhm needs to go on the positive side of the LED.

[Schwizzle]

If you have switches from the TCSS store, the LED terminals are labeled in this diagram:

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/GetImage.ashx?maintainAspectRatio=true&maxHeight=300&maxWidth=300&Path=%7e%2fAssets%2fProductImages%2fSMRNRc.jpg

The unlabeled terminals are for the switch mechanism itself.

If the LED in the switch is blowing, then your resistor isn't being wired correctly. The DynaOhm needs to go on the positive side of the LED.

Thank you! I will try things out again tonight.

[Schwizzle]

Actually, looking again at the switches I have (from the saber shop) positive and negative are switched.

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[FenixFire]

Actually, looking again at the switches I have (from the saber shop) positive and negative are switched.

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Turn the switch 180 degrees and they will match the diagram ;) if the switch is labeled the + and - always indicate the led. there is no polarity to the switch, it is just a line interrupter.

Are you putting the DynaOhm on the positive line? post your wiring diagram.

For an on with power you should have:
1. a positive feed from the NB + --> the DynaOhm -->Switch LED +
2. a ground feed from the NB - --> Switch LED-
3. a line from NB ACT --> switch terminal
4. a line from Bat- --> Switch terminal

[Schwizzle]

Turn the switch 180 degrees and they will match the diagram ;) if the switch is labeled the + and - always indicate the led. there is no polarity to the switch, it is just a line interrupter.

Ok, so the position of the LED color indicator (the dot) doesn't always match the polarity of the LED terminals? I have a larger switch that has the dot in the same place as shown in Serpent's diagram.

[Schwizzle]

Turn the switch 180 degrees and they will match the diagram ;) if the switch is labeled the + and - always indicate the led. there is no polarity to the switch, it is just a line interrupter.

Are you putting the DynaOhm on the positive line? post your wiring diagram.

For an on with power you should have:
1. a positive feed from the NB + --> the DynaOhm -->Switch LED +
2. a ground feed from the NB - --> Switch LED-
3. a line from NB ACT --> switch terminal
4. a line from Bat- --> Switch terminal

Yes, well, for what I thought was the positive terminal I've been putting the dynaohm on each time, but I think I've been paying too much attention to the position of that color indicator.

So, to just test the LED, all I should have to do is put the resistor on the + LED terminal, then attach my positive lead from the battery, then connect - lead from battery to the - LED terminal, and the LED should light up correct?

I will do some wiring diagrams later after kids are in bed, and if I'm not dead asleep by that point :-)

Thank you all for the replies btw.

[Whi-ja]

Here's one way to save a little cram-fu trouble by reducing your wires from 4 to 3...

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[Schwizzle]

So, along with getting the terminals straight, I've also come to realize that my dynaohm was bad too. I had a second one and tried it and the LED's were lighting right up. However, the 2nd dynaohm went bad too. I'm not completely sure why, except I may have inadvertently moved the positive alligator clip (they're tricky on those small terminals) and it touched one of the switch terminals for a brief moment. I thought that it shouldn't matter though since the switch terminals don't have polarity?

[Cire Yeldarb]

The Dyna-ohm has an "in" side and an "out" side, are you making sure to put it facing the right way in your circuit?

[Schwizzle]

Thanks for asking that. I *think* so. I don't want to embarrass myself further, but anyway, I was putting the + IN on the +LED terminal and then the positive lead from the battery went to the - OUT of the Dynaohm.

That is how a battery works in serial right? Positive to negative, etc. Still learning though so willing to admit I have it backwards.

The LED's were lighting up however when I would apply the negative lead from the batt to the -LED terminal.

Edit: based on the pdf here, http://www.ledsupply.com/led-drivers/dynaohm-dc-resistor-power-module, I think that the LED positive was supposed to go to the negative side of the dynaohm (first time interpreting the electrical symbols in the wiring diagram, for the LED symbol, doesn't say if left or right is positive, went with left being positive)

[Cire Yeldarb]

Simplified version:
Battery/NB Accent Pad -Positive Wire-> "In" DynaOhm "Out" -> LED -Negative Wire-> Ground Pad

[Madcow]

It's also possible that if your soldering iron is too hot, or if you heat the contact for too long... the LED becomes un-soldered inside the switch. That happened once to me.

[Schwizzle]

Thanks again for the helpful info. I wasn't able to work on a wiring diagram this past weekend. The wife is taking a couple days off at the end of this week, so I am going to try and get it done then. I've seen people make diagrams on here using a program of some sort, then save it as an image...I will try to find one for free or just do it by hand.

Here's another idea in the meantime: I'm going to use tri-star Cree's (one is all REDORANGE, the other all BLUE) as my main LED. However, I didn't notice that the NB only offers 2A current. I know I can wire the 3rd LED to the FoC pad on the NB and the 3rd would light up for FOC.

However, my hilt has space for a 2nd switch, so I should be able to wire the 3rd LED (plus resistor) and 2nd switch directly to the battery and turn the 3rd LED on/off that way, while the other two LED's will be activated by the recharge port/switch kill key/NB......right?

I've read on there that I could do a separate PEX for the 3rd LED, but since I was going to put in a 2nd switch anyway......not sure if anyone else has gone that route for powering the 3rd LED or not.

[Schwizzle]

Ok, attached is my wiring diagram. Would someone please check it when they have time? This is the first one I've done, so please let me know if there is anything I could do better on.

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[Sevinzol]

Well I'm confused.

What I have in mind is to have two illuminated switches, one that will come on/off via recharge port and kill key, and the other wired directly from the power source (18650, 3.7) that will turn on and off whenever I press the button
You can wire a switch so that the switch's LED will light up when the kill key is removed but the main LED will not turn on until you press the switch. You don't need 2 switches

You seem to have 3 switches. 2 are daisy chained together and connect directly to the main LED, bypassing the sound card, and the third appears to be looped through the main LED pads and back to the sound card for no reason. Your power from the battery (red wire) loops back to the main LED (white wires) from the same terminal on the sound card - effectively bypassing the sound card.

You are going to let the magic smoke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_smoke) out for sure.

Have to read the manual that came with the sound card? There are several wiring diagrams included.
IF not, go here: customsabershop/Nano-Biscotte-Sound-module v3 (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Nano-Biscotte-Sound-Module-V3-P806.aspx) click the link marked 'Owner's manual', save it and read through it. Twice.

Then go here: Youtube - TheCustomSaberShop (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCustomSaberShop) and watch the video on wiring up an illuminated switch, and a recharge port, and everything else . Twice.

[Schwizzle]

Well I'm confused.

You can wire a switch so that the switch's LED will light up when the kill key is removed but the main LED will not turn on until you press the switch. You don't need 2 switches

You seem to have 3 switches. 2 are daisy chained together and connect directly to the main LED, bypassing the sound card, and the third appears to be looped through the main LED pads and back to the sound card for no reason. Your power from the battery (red wire) loops back to the main LED (white wires) from the same terminal on the sound card - effectively bypassing the sound card.

You are going to let the magic smoke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_smoke) out for sure.

Have to read the manual that came with the sound card? There are several wiring diagrams included.
IF not, go here: customsabershop/Nano-Biscotte-Sound-module v3 (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Nano-Biscotte-Sound-Module-V3-P806.aspx) click the link marked 'Owner's manual', save it and read through it. Twice.

Then go here: Youtube - TheCustomSaberShop (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCustomSaberShop) and watch the video on wiring up an illuminated switch, and a recharge port, and everything else . Twice.

Thanks for the condescending post, very helpful. Since I am using a screenshot of the NB board from the manual, that might mean I have looked at the manual. I will attempt to proceed on without the condescension.

The two pictures in the middle are switches. The left will be called switch 1, the right switch two. The other picture on the right of switch 2 is the recharge port. Also, I am using the NB header with JST connections. I tried to use the color of wires that is on the header. TCSS has the wiring colors here: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/NB-V3-MWS-Header-and-Wiring-Harness-P1144.aspx

The NB board doesn't have the amps to power all three of the main LED's (2A vs 3A), so I am wiring the one LED to the 2nd switch so to get power directly from the battery (via the recharge port, same circuit that the NB board is on) and turn on/off on the 2nd switch. Since the LED will be getting power not from the board, but from the battery, I want it to be on the 2nd switch instead. This will also help conserve battery by being able to turn off a LED at will.

The wiring harness uses white for + LED and blue for - LED. The white wire on the harness goes back to the positive pad on the NB board. This is the reason why I have the white wires going from the the positive's of the two LED's to the positive pad on the NB board. The blue wires of the two LED's are ground and go to the - LED pad on the board.

Switch one isn't bypassing the board. One of the switch terminals is connected to the activation pad on the board, and then goes to the ground pad on the board (again, this is how it is wired on the harness for the board). And then the LED terminals for switch one are going to the 3.3V pad + resistor on the board for +, and then the ground pad for - (as the manual shows).

I don't want switch 2 to be governed by the board, but by the recharge port/battery; this is why it is going to the recharge port and is bypassing the board. But, since the LED ground for switch 2 is connected to the same ground terminal as what the board is, switch 2 LED should turn on/off according to the kill key being removed/inserted, same as switch 1.

Thank you for your patience as I continue to learn. I have read through the manual many times. Also, I fully realize that my diagram might be confusing, it is the first one I have ever done. I am realizing that other diagrams don't let the wires cross (because that is bad in real life of course), so I apologize for that and see that is confusing. I will attempt to clean it up tonight and not have the wires cross, and hopefully make it more sensible. :-)

Oh, and the electrical symbol I used means there is a resistor present in the line, I wasn't sure if that was confusing or not either.

[Cire Yeldarb]

Given the explanation of what you are trying to do, I think your diagram is correct... theres just a lot of wires to keep track of, so I would have at least one more person verify as well...


Edit: And honestly, I thought your recharge port was another switch too until I read through your plan, where you specified what it really was lol

[Schwizzle]

Given the explanation of what you are trying to do, I think your diagram is correct... theres just a lot of wires to keep track of, so I would have at least one more person verify as well...


Edit: And honestly, I thought your recharge port was another switch too until I read through your plan, where you specified what it really was lol

Thanks Cire. Yes, I can see now how that could be taken as another momentary switch, so I do apologize (to Sevinzol as well) for not identifying it as such. Apparently that kind of recharge port isn't used much, or just isn't talked about much, because it took me a while to find a thread identifying the ground terminals on it as well. I did find one eventually, but had used a multi meter at that point to identify which terminal went with which circuit (board circuit vs recharge port).

I've got a friend that does this stuff for a living so I will run it by him as well.

One thing I am still unsure of is the 2nd momentary switch turning on the single LED. As the wiring is now, I think the LED would only stay on when I have the button pressed down. It may not be possible to turn on just the single LED with a momentary switch....will have to think/research more on that one.

[FenixFire]

You are correct on the switch, you would either need a latching switch or the latching converter from the store.

[Cire Yeldarb]

You are correct on the switch, you would either need a latching switch or the latching converter from the store.

^This is 100% Correct

Or as you said it would just be on when you held it down.

Of course you could always just wire up that 3rd die as FoC, even if its the same color it would provide a decent flash of moderate extra brightness when you hit something

[FenixFire]

^This is 100% Correct

Or as you said it would just be on when you held it down.

Of course you could always just wire up that 3rd die as FoC, even if its the same color it would provide a decent flash of moderate extra brightness when you hit something this is actually not a bad idea, while adding dice will increase brightness it is not a 1+1+1=3. It's more like 1+1+1~2.25

[Schwizzle]

^This is 100% Correct

Or as you said it would just be on when you held it down.

Of course you could always just wire up that 3rd die as FoC, even if its the same color it would provide a decent flash of moderate extra brightness when you hit something

.......I think I will do this. Plus, I don't want to have to pay shipping for anything else. I was going to get around to that question of a white LED being a must for FOC (in terms of appreciable brightness), but you got there first :-). I've heard that once you do FOC, you don't go back. Since my board can do it and I'm curious to see what it looks like, might as well. Would make the wiring easier anyway.

Edit: I'm looking up YT vids to see what it looks like :-)

[Schwizzle]

this is actually not a bad idea, while adding dice will increase brightness it is not a 1+1+1=3. It's more like 1+1+1~2.25

So you are saying with the two LED's wired to the - LED pad and the third going to the FoC pad, when FoC trips total ma at that point would be ~2.25?

[Cire Yeldarb]

this is actually not a bad idea, while adding dice will increase brightness it is not a 1+1+1=3. It's more like 1+1+1~2.25

Exactly, which is why I made sure I said "moderate extra brightness" lol



So you are saying with the two LED's wired to the - LED pad and the third going to the FoC pad, when FoC trips total ma at that point would be ~2.25?

What he is refering to is that Brightness added per LED is not linear. 2 LEDs is not as twice as bright as 1, and 3 LEDs is not thrice as bright as 1... Basically, the more LEDs you add to the system, the less "additional brightness" each new LED adds. There are diminishing returns as you add more.

So for Instance, the first LED is 1 Brightness, add a second LED for .75 more brightness, and the third LED adds .5 more brightness... adding up to 2.25 times as bright as 1 LED by itself

Which isn't to say the second and third LEDs are getting less power, or are in fact less bright, but its the "additional noticeable brightness" that diminishes for each LED added.

Make sense?

[Cire Yeldarb]

.......I think I will do this. Plus, I don't want to have to pay shipping for anything else. I was going to get around to that question of a white LED being a must for FOC (in terms of appreciable brightness), but you got there first :-). I've heard that once you do FOC, you don't go back. Since my board can do it and I'm curious to see what it looks like, might as well. Would make the wiring easier anyway.

Edit: I'm looking up YT vids to see what it looks like :-)

Also FYI, using a white LED for FOC would not necessarily make the blade flash that much brighter than any other color LED either; the main reason why using a different colored LED for FoC (not even necessarily white) is common is because flashing a different color in the blade is what draws your attention to the flash, probably more so than the marginally added brightness...

[Schwizzle]

What he is refering to is that Brightness added per LED is not linear. 2 LEDs is not as twice as bright as 1, and 3 LEDs is not thrice as bright as 1... Basically, the more LEDs you add to the system, the less "additional brightness" each new LED adds. There are diminishing returns as you add more.

So for Instance, the first LED is 1 Brightness, add a second LED for .75 more brightness, and the third LED adds .5 more brightness... adding up to 2.25 times as bright as 1 LED by itself

Which isn't to say the second and third LEDs are getting less power, or are in fact less bright, but its the "additional noticeable brightness" that diminishes for each LED added.

Make sense?
.........
Also FYI, using a white LED for FOC would not necessarily make the blade flash that much brighter than any other color LED either; the main reason why using a different colored LED for FoC (not even necessarily white) is common is because flashing a different color in the blade is what draws your attention to the flash, probably more so than the marginally added brightness...

Gotcha, makes perfect sense. This is the reason why I ordered a single die star LED from TCSS because I wanted to see how bright just a single XPE2 will make a blade look vs having 2 or 3. Plus.....I needed green.

[Cire Yeldarb]

Plus.....I needed green.

And that alone is reason enough lol

[Schwizzle]

And that alone is reason enough lol

Ok, here is my FoC diagram. The only differences are that I no longer have any wires going from the star LED to switch 2: the positive and negative of the bottom right LED on the star is now going to the - FoC pad and the + Batt pad on the board; and an extra ground wire is removed from switch 2 since it isn't being used as a switch anymore. It is there now to fill in a hole on my hilt, light up, and look fancy. :-)

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[Schwizzle]

Simplified version:
Battery/NB Accent Pad -Positive Wire-> "In" DynaOhm "Out" -> LED -Negative Wire-> Ground Pad

Revisiting the Dynaohm now that I am in the midst of wiring...TCSS website says "This makes it very simple to power accent LED's such as the illuminated switches, just place this inline on the positive lead. " The youtube vid says the same.

So would it be Battery-Positive wire> "+In" DynaOhm "-Out" >positive wire-switch LED+? Basically it has to stay inline on the positive wire between the battery and the positive terminal on the LED?

The way explained above its sounds like you would be doing a whole separate wire in between the battery/accent pad to the ground pad of the board. (I may have interpreted incorrectly as well).

[Schwizzle]

I am 3/4's done. I have the switch, switch LED, recharge port, and wiring to the battery all done. It all works; the switch lights up and it is charging :-). Pictures tomorrow hopefully.

I decided to forego the extra switch (was going to use just for the LED, no actual switch function anymore) due to space constraints. It's amazing how much wiring there is with just one AV switch and a recharge port. I decided to fill the extra spot with a dummy recharge port so that I would have a place to put my kill key when the saber is in use/charging.

All that is left is to wire up my LED module. I am still planning on the FoC setup.

Oh, and get another NB board.......after all the wiring I did......when I went to test it all out.....I put the battery in backwards.....I know i'm not the first person to do that....but still....it's an easy mistake to do, but incredibly stupid all the same.

I've heard that Zook can repair these boards; here's hoping he's still in business :-)

Edit: I did wire that dynaohm with its negative going to the positive terminal on the switch.

[Schwizzle]

Okay, here are pictures finally. I have chasis parts coming in to secure everything/make cable runs more organized. I can shorten some of the wires too, wasn't sure how long to make them.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8227/29314878596_e9ef761494_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LEsq6j)File_002 (https://flic.kr/p/LEsq6j) by schwizzle1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87587667@N05/), on Flickr

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8494/29061002650_4eb0fe0a9d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Lh2eBQ)File_000 (https://flic.kr/p/Lh2eBQ) by schwizzle1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87587667@N05/), on Flickr

[Greenie]

Very nice indeed. Like that wrap. Good work dude :mrgreen:

[jbkuma]

Nice elegant design. Great work!

[PhoenixHawk]

Looks good....nice work there bro. /thumbs up

[Schwizzle]

Thanks for the kind words!

Got the LED module done....except for flash on clash. I forgot to wire in the resistor for it. Will wait on that till I have my board back.

Wiring that thing was difficult, even more so was trying to fit the resistors (1.8 ohm, 2w) into the switch section. Will probably need to revisit the wiring to fit in the 3rd resistor.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8378/29175808080_34846bfea3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LsaDgN)image (https://flic.kr/p/LsaDgN) by schwizzle1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87587667@N05/), on Flickr

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8052/29384660161_c524cf833b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LLC4HK)image (https://flic.kr/p/LLC4HK) by schwizzle1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87587667@N05/), on Flickr

https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8172/29175803190_02fc25751b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LsaBPu)image (https://flic.kr/p/LsaBPu) by schwizzle1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87587667@N05/), on Flickr