Tri Crees and Crystal Focees

[Manadono]

subtitle - I may have missed some small print when ordering all my electronics.

I have a Red Photored Green tri-cree lined up for my vader saber and I was just flicking through the guide to the CF8 and noticed that the colour pads 2 through 4 don't have high amperage drive capabilities (or do they?) and only the current regulated 1st channel is able to drive high power LEDs.

First, IS THIS TRUE?

Second, How am I going to wire the R Rp with +G Flash on Clash?

I guess to you hardened guys this seems like some noob question, but I was under the impression the first 3 colour pads were capable of 1A direct drive off the board (pretty sure Msr. Petkau did a tutorial on the CF7 wiring, but I might be mistaken...)

anyway, thanks if you can help me :>

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

Only the first channel is current regulated. The others have "high amperage drive capabilities". You need to RE-read the manual a few more times to find out how it's handled. It's all explained in the manual.

[Manadono]

okay, I found the video that had the original soldering guide for what I thought was good (it was Msr. Plecter in fact!) and I can see I have forgotten a good few details between watching it and trying to use its info to inform parts purchasing for the vader.

The video shows rudimentary colour mixing on a tri-cree using the single cell hack and access to the two power extenders. Although watching the video, and trying to find it and hence watching more videos, has made me wonder; can I wire the Red and Photo Red in parallel over the current controlled channel and then have the Green run off the on board PeX? I have a double cell though, would I need a chock off power resistor on the PeX connection? Assuming the amperage over each red LED is 700mA, the total amperage won't go over the board's max 1.5A (although it cuts it mighty close).

I'm not sure Erv has calculated for the genius-idiot wiring schemes in his manual, I will go and read it again right now, but in the meantime what do you think to this?

[There's stuff in the way to the manual, reading later]

[Erv seems to think it's a bad plan: http://i.imgur.com/e8EZ0gIl.png (http://imgur.com/e8EZ0gI)]

[xl97]

okay, I found the video that had the original soldering guide for what I thought was good (it was Msr. Plecter in fact!) and I can see I have forgotten a good few details between watching it and trying to use its info to inform parts purchasing for the vader.

The video shows rudimentary colour mixing on a tri-cree using the single cell hack and access to the two power extenders. Although watching the video, and trying to find it and hence watching more videos, has made me wonder; can I wire the Red and Photo Red in parallel over the current controlled channel and then have the Green run off the on board PeX? I have a double cell though, would I need a chock off power resistor on the PeX connection? Assuming the amperage over each red LED is 700mA, the total amperage won't go over the board's max 1.5A (although it cuts it mighty close).

I'm not sure Erv has calculated for the genius-idiot wiring schemes in his manual, I will go and read it again right now, but in the meantime what do you think to this?

[There's stuff in the way to the manual, reading later]

[Erv seems to think it's a bad plan: http://i.imgur.com/e8EZ0gIl.png (http://imgur.com/e8EZ0gI)]


I'm not even sure/clear what it is your asking?

...but if Erv, the creator of the board & and an EE by trade, says whatever you are trying is a bad idea, I'd listen to him........no?

[Manadono]

I'm not even sure/clear what it is your asking?

...but if Erv, the creator of the board & and an EE by trade, says whatever you are trying is a bad idea, I'd listen to him........no?

I'm asking how to wire a tricree to a CF without a CeX, he said using the basic colour mixing wiring for a single cell hack board is a bad idea (and I agree with him, it's not what I'm trying to do.) I just wanted to know what the deal with the colour channel power ratings was as the single cell hack takes electricity directly from the battery (essentially) and it would be super inefficient to run the board with giant power resistors to soak up all that extra voltage.

Actually, if the on board PeX channels run at the battery level, could I use a potential divider to run one line as two? And can anyone confirm the parallel wiring of an LED?

To be clear, I'm not bothered about being able to colour mix on this build, it's a RRG for all intents and purposes and as long as it can be wired RR with G over the top FoC I'm cool, in fact it's the reason I only got one CeX...

[FenixFire]

I'm not even sure/clear what it is your asking?

...but if Erv, the creator of the board & and an EE by trade, says whatever you are trying is a bad idea, I'd listen to him........no?

From experience few people ever listen to an expert who tells them their idea is a bad one...just sayin'.

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

From experience few people ever listen to an expert who tells them their idea is a bad one...just sayin'.

That's probably why a lot of experienced people don't say all that much anymore. ;)

[Manadono]

Okay, so the PeX on board is good to power the green flash, but the question remains how am I going to power both red dice off one pad? Can they be put in parallel successfully? or should I be doing them in series?

[edit]

basically, is this correct?
http://i.imgur.com/Kqh7A7z.png (http://imgur.com/Kqh7A7z)

[FenixFire]

Okay, so the PeX on board is good to power the green flash, but the question remains how am I going to power both red dice off one pad? Can they be put in parallel successfully? or should I be doing them in series

Since one is red and the other photo red, they are not identical dice so series wiring has the potential to damage one or both.

edit: looked up the specs, photo red and red XP-E2 is 2.4 @1000 so wiring in series should pose little possibility to runaway if wired in series, but the main pad only outputs 3.3 volts (?) so that is not the 4.8v required if wired in series.

Why not just wire it as the manual shows how to wire multiple dice using the CEX you said you already have, the way it is designed to do what you want, as shown on Page 41 and 42 of the manual. The CEX color mixing does not require the single cell hack. Just mentally replace the image of the rgbw led with an image of your Tri-star, wire them to channels 1, 2, and 3 for FoC. The pads still drive the LEDs and control the blade FX, you just have to add a resitor to each so that you do not over drive the LEDs on accident. Then just adjust the final settings in the config or add a rice port and you can adjust In real time. When the actual designer/engineer of the device actually lays out how to do something, why not listen?

This is actually how the boards are intended to be used,to drive multi-die led arrays like your tri-star. It will provide the best possible color and FX control, and since it is how the boards were designed to work unlikely to damage the board if wired properly. This method will allow you to dial each the red and photo red dice to achieve the actual color you are hoping to achieve, without fiddling with resistor values. You have a Cadillac board, but you want to treat it like it is the NB...

To do it without a CeX you have to do the hack, says so right in the manual on page 56. Read it, it is a well put together and fairly easy to follow manual. If you read it over several times, nearly memorizing it before you attempt to draw your diagram and definitely before you wire the board, you would have learned that the hack was developed so you could do pseudo color mixing without the CeX in small hilts. So unless you have the cash to buy a new CF when you fry this one your ideal option would be to use the CeX, assuming you have the room in your hilt. Or to do the hack so you do not have to use the CeX. Either way you are still advised to use the minimal resitor on each die.

[FenixFire]

With the CeX wire One Red to the main, the Deep Red to the CeX channel 2, and FoC green to the onboard PEx of channel 3.

You can try to do it by wiring the two reds in parallel to see if it works, but be prepared to worst case buy a new board or send it off for repairs, more likely new LED, or best case it works and you can document it.

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

I don't know where you're getting the fact that the main pad only puts out 3.3V. It looks to me like you're not really reading through the manual, you're trying to skim through it and guess.

Also Power Extenders, and Color Extenders are two different things.

[FenixFire]

I don't know where you're getting the fact that the main pad only puts out 3.3V. It looks to me like you're not really reading through the manual, you're trying to skim through it and guess.

Also Power Extenders, and Color Extenders are two different things.

Sorry FJK, I just took that (3.3v) from his drawing, I did not go back to the manual to double check that one.

[Manadono]

Okay, I don't understand. The main Luxeon drive channel can drive up to 3A in 3 minute bursts, 2A stable, but is then documented to be set to a 1A limit in the prefs file. Beyond this, no mention of its use beyond 1A is made (although Erv mentions setting the max amperage over channels 2-4 to 1.5A for pseudo colour mixing). As the channel seems to be able to operate safely at 2A, surely it would be A-ok to drive both red dice in parallel, as long as the loads were balanced?

Please understand that circumventing common operation to achieve a non-standard stable and viable operation requires some in depth understanding of how the board handles power. I am asking your opinion on electronics, I have the manual, and until I solve this problem (or memorise it cover to cover) of course I will be using it as my main source material. However I am not an electrician, and I know when I need an extra brain on the job, this is why I ask for help, not because I can't read, or can't be bothered to put the leg work in myself.

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

You could run the 2 of them in parallel though I don't know why you would need to, depening on your battery setup.

[Manadono]

You could run the 2 of them in parallel though I don't know why you would need to

I have a 7.4V cell, as my understanding stands, the PeX channels are at battery level voltages and running a single red die on 7.4V needs "a chock off power resistor" to keep the LED from exploding. Running the small load of two red dice on the main channel will let the blade be dimmed in and out, and edited in RICE if need be, on a current controlled channel without excessive voltages, and the green die can run on the PeX channel for FoC because it's only going to be on momentarily.

Anyway, considering what I know I have been away with a sandwich and some paper and I have drawn up some values.

Assuming that channel 1 is current controlled, and all things being perfect, is outputting 1.4A to the Red (Vf 2.19V) and Photo Red (Vf 2.225V) in parallel, with a 0.05Ω (0.00175W, I'm assuming this means any small resistor will do) resistor on the Red line to balance the forward voltage difference, both LEDs will have their 700mA. I have no clue how the main channel deals with amperage and voltage though so any light on that subject would be great.

Then, assuming the PeX channel has a voltage of 7.4V, wired to the Green (Vf 2.95V) die with a 4.45Ω 5W resistor for FoC, all should be fine and dandy? I suppose the resistor could be a lower wattage on the FoC channel, but for safety's sake my reasoning is sound?

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

If you have a 7.4V power source, ideally you would be smarter to run the Reds in series at 700mA. The dimming effects you descriped are (again) covered in the manual. You would need to adjust the Amperage to what you need, and the voltage will handle itself in the main LEDs. You wouldn't need a resistor for that assuming you are using the main LED pads.

The resistor for the Green sounds about right.

[Manadono]

I wasn't sure about running the two reds in series with there being different Vf over them both, but that sounds a lot simpler. I've just been trying to find info on the power flow through an LED because I remember that lab test from my physics class where power would decrease in series over incandescent bulbs, but then an incandescent bulb is purely resistive and I get the feeling diodes don't behave in the same way. Then again the difference in Vf is pretty small, maybe a teeny scooch of overdrive wouldn't kill it. Thanks for the tip!

[FenixFire]

If you can verify they are both XP-E then I linked to a screen capture of the the datasheet that shows that at 700mA the Red and PhotoRed are both 2.3v. I can PM you the full 44 page engineering doc if you would like. I do not have an XP-E2 in PhotoRed in that series data sheet.

http://i.imgur.com/yUOBzg5.jpg XPE
http://i.imgur.com/S89osq1.png XPE2

[Manadono]

the Red is an XP-E2, the Photo Red is XP-E... Oh flip, the If of the red is 1A.

just wired up a test @ 700mA series, everything went fine and the Red was super bright even though it wasn't at its full drive. although the Photo Red wasn't as exciting as I expected it to be, looks like it should be fine running them in series on channel 1 :>, came to about 4.3V.