Hardware Brands & Advice About Tools (It's Fathers Day weekend, after all)

[Glamador]

Hi there, I am *new* to this. Very new. I lack...the equipment that I may need. But that's fine, because this is a GREAT time to buy tools. I've been seeing ads for Fathers Day sales everywhere I look, but I'm not about to go make any purchases half-****ed, or without knowing what all I may need to build my own Lightsaber.

To that end, I am seeking some advice as to which tools, brands, and model numbers I should look into purchasing this week while the iron is hot. I know that I will likely be needing the following at a minimum:


Dremel tool with flex-shaft attachment (or a flex-shaft tool that is not a Dremel)
Drill-Press
Various drill bits
A tap set for either by-hand or drill-press thread tapping
Some SMD LEDs



And some maybes:

Table saw
Band saw
A tool for threading pipe
Lathe
Milling machine


(probably best to buy those last 2 used, if possible)


I already have a hand-drill, a soldering iron, helping hands, and solder. But I have no wires. I already know that hardware stores don't have bugger-all in the way of hookup wire in any gauge suitable for sabercraft, so I probably won't bother looking for any sales in that department.

But I am hungry for advice and suggestions! I am *not* a handyman at all, and have hardly touched a screwdriver. IKEA furniture vexes me. So please, spare no detail if you can.

[jbkuma]

I'm working with mostly hand tools and a drill. You can make a sink tube hilt with little more than a saw and a drill.

In any case, you will want some files for refining your work, that's more important than any of your maybes. Dremels are super cheap for what they are capable of, the accessories are where you'll spend your money there. Get sanding drums for your drill press.

[Glamador]

Thanks for the input, but I was going more for "I am definitely buying some tools which brands won't break in a week?"

[Sevinzol]

I am *not* a handyman at all, and have hardly touched a screwdriver. IKEA furniture vexes me.
A brave admission. With that I would say first, do not think about a lathe or milling machine.

Your question is a rather all encompassing one. By starting this hobby you are saying I want to be a "maker". I can read it as "how do I set up a workshop?" That, for many of us, is a never ending quest in acquisition and refinement. I can give suggestions but I don't want it to come back and bite me in the ass.. "you said buy X and its a piece of crap" and I also don't want you to fall for the Martha Stewart style hype... "you can only make cookies with this pan and this mixer". Many innovations in this hobby arise from people asking 'what if'. A shop is as personal as the saber you want to build in it, will be. It has to fit you, your space, your budget and you're interests.
Think outside of just lightsabers with regards to tools. This hobby overlaps: auto mechanics, electronics, jewel crafting, leatherworking, etc. So don't limit your sources to just the big box hardware stores. http://www.instructables.com/ has lots of cool ideas for a workshop. If you have a sales tax and use number you can take advantage of wholesalers who don't sell to the general public like https://www.riogrande.com/ who sell to professional jewelers.

If you need help planning out a shop, I suggest looking up Adam Savage (from mythbusters) on youtube. He blogs with the guys from 'tested' and he shares his philosophy about what makes a shop work (I just entered "Adam Savage shop").

Start with the basics.
Do you have a place you can dedicate to your hobby or are you using the kitchen table? If you have space for a "shop" (regardless of size) then great.
1) buy or make a sturdy work table. I made one out of 2x4's and 3/4" plywood for under $100
2) get a good Vice (not a woodworkers vice) 6 - 8" jaws. also get a smaller one for holding things like LED stars while soldering
3) a Rotary tool is nice. An actual jeweler's flex-shaft (foot pedal operated) can run you a couple hundred dollars but a "dremel" will work great for our hobby. I would stick with dremel or sears craftsman, If you have the money buy more than one so you don't have to keep switching bits. Do not buy a cheap knock off.
3a) buy quick change cut-off wheels
3b) sanding disks, drums and polishing wheels for different grits (do not cross contaminate the polishing grits)
4) files: get a set of jewelers files
5) gloves, leather (for grinding) and nitrile (for weathering/painting)
6) a multi-meter so you can check your wiring
7) safety gear, eyes and ears (everyone says it but actually do it, don't be stupid).
8) a small fan (for solder fumes)
9) containers, you're going to have lots of small parts laying around (plastic peanut butter jars are a nice size)
10) for drill bits I would get Vermont American. I bought cheap ones and they bent

A note about brand names:
Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM for short) are items that stores put their own names on. They pay another company to make it and then they assume the warranty for it. Some major OEMS with good reputations are craftsman (sears), ridgid (home depot). Others like toolshop and masterforce (from Menards) I know less about. Finally be very careful at Harbor Freight. Most of their stuff is made in China and it can be a real crap shoot. You can end up putting a lot of money into tools. You do not have to always buy new. Use craigslist and check estate sales. There is also a growing movement of community shops I found a reference to http://www.techshop.ws/ on the instructables site. You might find something similar to it near a community college

[Silver Serpent]

Sevinzol has most of it covered.

Dremel with flex shaft is a wonderful addition to your workshop.
Needle files (sometimes called jeweler's files) are a must.
Drill press is nice, but not mandatory. With steady hands and a proper vice, you can do most things with a hand drill.

The next power tool I'd purchase after a drill press would be a belt sander. Something similar to this: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-in-x-30-in-belt-sander-61728.html Not necessarily from HF, but you'll get the idea.

I've built my fair share of sabers, and a benchtop belt sander is next on my list. A lathe and a milling machine are FAR FAR down the wish list of tools. They're expensive, take up a lot of room, and practically demand that you take a course in how to use them effectively. Not to mention you'll be spending as much on tooling as you do on the actual machine. Unless you need those tools for other purposes, I wouldn't get them just to build lightsabers.

If you just won the lottery and are dripping with cash, feel free to buy a huge workshop with all the metalworking tools you can find. Just take some training courses first so you don't lose an eye. ;)

[xl97]

I am on the opposite side of the fence for these..

I -do- say buy as much as you can for cheap... from Harbor Freight or wherever.

Are they cheap? yes.. Are they crap? Only 'sometimes' IMHO... and at that point then you know what tool/tooling you need to spend a bit more on.

Do you need to buy the most expensive craftsman/snap-on (whatever) hammer?.. doubtful.. I think a $2.00 hammer from Harbor Freight will work the same. Same for other basic tools, screw drivers..wrenches..etc


bandsaw and drill press should be high on the list... good metal cutting blade.

[darth_chasm]

I give this advice solely based on my experience so take it with a grain of salt. START with a very simple build!! Get to know the parts and how they interact. Get to know the electronics and the process of putting a saber together. DON'T go into the deep end without learning to swim. Trust me, after building one, you'll get new ideas and want to build another.

I started simple, then moved on to more involved builds with increasing complexity and got quite complex with my most recent build. I am glad I did it this way. And, I've been able to do it with mostly hand tools, cheap drill press, dremel and power drill.

[Glamador]

Wow, this is a lot more than I expected. Thank you, all of you.

While that's probably great advice, darth_chasm, there's the cost to consider. I want to buy a Badaxx next year, so I won't be able to afford to build multiple sabers for what may be years down the road. And besides that, I find it impossible to settle. If I'm going to build my own saber, then it is going to be fabulous. I can't be seen to have made something...simple. It just will not do.

That said, I'm already seeing some fantastic deals coming into my inbox, so the advice I really, desperately need right now are for brands. There's a $59 Dremel 4000 starter kit on Amazon for the next 8 hours, but that sounds really cheap and I won't want to have to re-buy a tool down the line because I acted out of haste. That's why I'm seeking advice.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002L3RUVG/ Is this even good? I don't know.

The way I see it, all rotary tools do the same thing, just as all drill presses and band saws and belt sanders do the same thing. I may not know which of those things will most benefit me in my sabercraft, but I DO know that there are some things that I DON'T know. Let me be specific:

Which model of dremel is the best for the purpose of sabercraft? I see 3000s and 4000s, but I don't know which of those will work best on aluminum, or brass. I have nightmares about buying a woodworking tool and trying to work metal with it.

Is Dremel even the best option? I read a forum thread on FX Sabers that recommended a Black & Decker rotary tool. And I intend to buy a Dremel workstation but I don't know if it will fit a Black & Decker product.

What brand of drill press is reliable? What features should I look for if I go shopping for one? That sort of thing. I'm on the lookout for all manner of tools, but I have NO IDEA how to judge them against one another as far as feature-set, price-to-benefit, warranty, or durability.

[Silver Serpent]

I personally use a 3001 variable speed Dremel with flex shaft. It's served me well for the last 5 or 6 years. It replaced an older one that had the motor brushes die on me from ingesting too much aluminum dust. Word of advise: clean your tools regularly.
The 4k Dremel should be fine as well. I hear lots of people saying the quick-change tools are a great investment. I don't use them myself, but I'd imagine they're wonderful.
The Dremel workstation is very wobbly. I use mine just to hold the Dremel upright while I use the flex shaft. I wouldn't trust it as a budget drill press, no matter what the manufacturer says.

I like Black and Decker tools. I have several of them in my shop. DeWalt makes some great tools as well. I personally love my DeWalt hand drill. Get some quality drill bits to go along with them.

Get corded tools, or buy lots of extra battery packs. The cordless tools always die before you're done working in the shop. Always.

As for hand tools, like my needle files, I just grab the store brand from Lowe's. Their Cobalt brand does the job just fine on a budget.

[FenixFire]

As far as power tool brands go, they are all the same. By that I mean all are owned and manufactured by the same Japanese company, even Milwaukee finally sold out 2 years ago. The brands still kept their offering level so you choose a price range you are comfortable buying. Knowing that all are designed with a 2-3 year lifespan at the level of use the brand's target consumer would use. Example the internals of a Milwaukee/Dewalt/Bastitich etc. tools are designed to work 15-20 hours a week for 3 years, black and decker are designed for a couple of hours use a month for 2-3 years.

[snilam]

Like many have said above do a simple build first. See if you like it. You may develop a problem and start to make more and more to get your fix. Or you may hate it and want to throw it at the wall after too many late night hours of staring at a metal pipe.

As far as brands go that's a tricky question. Its almost like whats better ford or chevy. There are always the Ferrari's and the Daewoo's but most fall in between and on top of that one brand might make excellent hand tools but horrible pneumatics etc. Normally with tools and I've bought many tools over the years since I work with my hands in custom fabrication (not sabers) and have invested probably a good 20K-30K in the day job. My general rule of thumb is you get what you pay for but at some point you have to ask yourself is an average tool good enough and it well may be. A hobbyist biker may have a $500 bicycle and that is plenty good but a someone on the tour de france may have a $50,000 bike. Same thing with tools. So generally if you are getting a tool and you think you may use it moderately go for something in the middle price wise. Pick a model do a little research, find some reviews.

Drills: I've owned Dewalt, Makita, Toshiba, Milwakee, Porter Cable. I personaly don't have a favorite out of the bunch they all had some pros and cons they are all solid drills

Hand tools: I've owned Snap-on, cornwell, Matco, Mac, Black and decker, craftsman, husky, cobalt, grizzly blah blah blah. The first four brands you will probly not get and really are for the professional that will use them everyday and they are really tool porn for those of us that sit around polishing wrenches and look through overpriced tool catelogs with mouths watering. Personaly my opinion for the person that is using them for hobby purposes Craftsman is a good choice. Avoid the bargain bins you see at like home depot/lowes with like the $10 screw driver set. They are worth about $10. The tool will eventually start spinning in the handle or the metal itself will bend with heavy use and rust.

Drill bits. Just get a basic set. You will lose them and break the small ones! This will not be you last drill bit set.

Tap set: Find our what taps you need. No need buying a 68 piece set when you only need 3 taps. buy them separately.

Heavy tools. Familiarize yourself with these tools they can KILL you. IF you don't know how to use them ask someone you know that does and have them give you a lesson.
Table saws: Get the best one you can get. If you can easily move it around its not good enough. A cheaper less rigid one will kick and buck and get real dangerous. I'm lucky and my work bought me mine. It will even stop the blade when it senses a finger or worse hits the blade.
Mills and Lathes: I have both but I'm far from an expert so i'm not going to act like I am on this. Personaly I got the largest I could afford and keep in mind you will need almost the same amount as the machine itself in just tooling and accessories. Also IMO these are tools that can wait till much later in your saber hobby. Many great sabers have been made without the use of machines.

With Harbor Frieght you have to know what to get there and not to get. If its a simple tool its usually not that big a risk but the more room for error in manufacturing the product the more of a gamble it may be. You can also find a lot of good tools online.

As far as dremels go I prefer the corded ones. The battery powered ones work great until the battery gets low which can leave you waiting on recharging batteries which can be a often if you have a long session of dremel-fu on your hands. I currently use a 3000 and I like it. I've also use a millwakee rotary tool and it was nice but its battery powered and I use it at work where I don't need a long work time with it. I'm with DC about the dremel press. Its pretty much my glorified dremel holder and nothing else.

[Glamador]

I went ahead and got that Amazon deal on the small Dremel 4000. The price was just too good. Got the Dremel workstation and flex-shaft as well, so we'll see how it works out. My plan is to mostly use MHS parts and customize them to my liking by milling out small areas for viewing windows and switches.

I'm thinking a drill-press is going to be a must-have, as my hands are not steady enough to produce the kind of quality I will demand of myself. I'm a big fan of Genesis Custom Sabers and Rob's high switch placement is definitely something I'm aiming to emulate. I'm fairly certain that will require me to grind out parts of my heat-sink to make room for the switches, which I'm guessing is a job for the Dremel. Don't know yet how complex my shroud-work will get, so I'm thinking I'll just spend a few hours at Home Depot tomorrow and browse the selection with a more informed eye.

I really want a lathe though. I know I don't know how to use it, and it's more expensive than I want to invest, and it requires training, practice, and safety knowledge...but it just looks so relaxing. I'm fantasizing about all the measuring and turning of wheels. I don't have steady hands, so the idea of making something purely by precise measurement, forethought, and attention to detail is an extremely enticing concept to me. Plus it can be used for so many things! It can thread male and female apertures, act as a mill, create flat edges, bevel & polish, bore, and carve! What a magical tool.

One last specific question: Is a circular saw or a band saw more useful for this hobby? What about a drop saw? Those look nifty.

[FenixFire]

I think you are fantasizing a little much for a manual lathe. They are great tools but require practice and patience, and can be tedious to get centered. If budgeting for a lathe keep in mind you will want a quality chuck or mandrel drive head capable of holding a 1.5" diameter or better. Self centering will be best for a beginner. As well as a tailstock chuck for starting the center bore. To get a decent setup you will be looking at 1.5-2x the cost of the lathe in tools and accessories. Boring bars, carbide tools, or having tools ground add up quickly.

Circular saw, not so much as they are for wood. Chop saw or metal bandsaw could if you were looking to build several dozen.

As someone who is a skilled woodworker, and model (prototypes) maker, to be honest your questions are kind of throwing up several red flags for safety and knowledge of working with power tools. Please try and find people, places, or clubs where you can learn or have proper handling and safety procedures demonstrated. If you live near a Maker Space or TechShop please look into some classes, or at a minimum please work safe and smart. Every shop accident I have witnessed while working in the Industrial Design and Furniture Design shop while in collage was a "sci-fi fanatic" or "gammer" trying to make what ever movie or video game prop was in vogue at the moment.

[FenixFire]

There is also a growing movement of community shops I found a reference to http://www.techshop.ws/ on the instructables site. You might find something similar to it near a community college

This is a great option, however the initial membership and mandatory classes for the tools to build your own scratch built saber would be about $3000. At least for the one I consulted on machines and equipment needed for bio-med startups. $1700 year membership plus a training class for each power tool, basic shop safety, and metal shop safety at $250-$500 per class. I think they were going to run a monthly membership of @ $200, but most classes are offered once per month. Might be lower in more established markets as this particular site was being built in an incubator community centered around bio-med and tech start ups.

[Glamador]

As someone who is a skilled woodworker, and model (prototypes) maker, to be honest your questions are kind of throwing up several red flags for safety and knowledge of working with power tools. Please try and find people, places, or clubs where you can learn or have proper handling and safety procedures demonstrated.

I appreciate the concern, and I realize how I may be coming across. But please, don't mistake my enthusiasm for incaution. I'm only even asking these questions after about two months of obsessive research. I'll be certain that I know how to use these tools before I actually do. I just want to be prepared and armed with knowledge while I am in this important "building up my workshop" stage. I wouldn't want to be swindled by some enthused storeclerk, would I?

Thanks for the advice all. I think I have what I need to at least get started. I'm sure I'll have some interesting questions once I cut my teeth a bit. I swear there's gonna be bits of sink tube *everywhere* for a while.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Since no one else has mentioned it you said you had a soldering iron but is it an ESD [electrostatic discharge] safe one? The cost of an ESD iron is higher but less than the cost of one 'fried' soundboard so well worth it; Weller and Hakko both make great ESD safe irons.