board funtions

[Darth Vand-Alar]

what goes into a standard board such as petit crouton or igniter? im looking to use adafruit boards, leds and such to make a board equivalent

[bunger]

What goes into it? Like, how to build one? My first thought is that if you have to ask that question, it is beyond your capabilities.

Beyond that, you would need a method to drive your LEDs, motion sensors for the various actions, sound generation, methods to tie all of those together, hours/days/weeks of r&d, an aptitude for electronics and programming, and an insane amount of time.

Search the boards... You'll find similar and more detailed answers.

[Silver Serpent]

If you want to make your own board as a learning experience or just for the fun of it, then by all means go for it. I've seen a few people go this path, and they've enjoyed themselves.

If you're trying to build a less expensive board, or are just tired of waiting for something to come back in stock...well, building your own will save you neither time nor money.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

adafruit sells boards that have different functions, such as accelerometer sensors, led drivers, wearable computers, ect. im thinking about connecting what i need, stack them in the chassis, and use it in place of the standard boards. i might be able to save space. basically it would be like stacking the acrylic discs. i wonder if the 4-40 threaded rods can be used as a connection for the different boards.

[darth_chasm]

I'm all for trying new things. That said, I think once you do a little more research you'll begin to realize that what you're proposing is not as easy as you believe nor will it save you any space. Those boards are not just plug and play in the sense that they will automatically work together to produce the effects of the production saber sound boards you mentioned above. And the use of multiple types of boards to do what one board can do as a space saving endeavor is a bit logically flawed.

You honestly are looking at quite some time and a lot of learning and work to develop something that will do what you want. If that's ok with you, go for it.

PS. You'll probably be referred to the arduino and adafruit support communities for further learning.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

should save space lengthwise since they will lie widthwise. might be able to fit a bigger battery. though honestly i wont know for sure until i get the hilt and electrinics. far as i know noone has used adafruit like this, at least i havent found it. sounds like i need 4 boards, led board, sound board, accelerometer board, and a computer board

[darth_chasm]

For reference.

7" hilt section.

Blue Boards Left to Right. And this doesn't include any other boards that are needed:
ATTiny (one of the smallest MCUs), Arduino Pro Mini clone (another small MCU), Adafruit 2MB Sound Board With Amp.

And the sound board does not perform in the way the Plecter boards do. It is limited in what it can do.

Green Boards Top to Bottom:
Crystal Focus, Prizm, Nano Biscotte.

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t649/DarthChasm/IMG_0978_zpsjd85k5jl.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/DarthChasm/media/IMG_0978_zpsjd85k5jl.jpg.html)

[Darth Vand-Alar]

whats the diameter of the hilt? 1.5?

[darth_chasm]

Standard MHS, 1.45"OD - 1.25"ID

[Darth Vand-Alar]

thank you. i never really had a good frame of reference

[darth_chasm]

No problem.

A tip for when you don't have parts or electronics...Dimensions are easy to find with a little searching. Based on those dimensions, cut things out of paper or card board to get an idea.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

would a paper towel roll work as a hilt standin

[Silver Serpent]

That would be a reasonable approximation.

You're definitely not going to save any space by building it yourself. You're trying to combine multiple general purpose boards and expecting that to be smaller than a single specialized board that's already been optimized for size.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

at this point im hoping to have them in the chassis without having to use acrylic disks to hold them.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

so i think i got enough info on boards. the set i put together wont be as good probably but they are more for stunt than anything else really. plus i can practice my electrical skills. so if you like, you can join me HERE (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?20082-curved-saber-with-katana-wrap&p=258300#post258300) for discussions on my future sabers external design

[xl97]

That would be a reasonable approximation.

You're definitely not going to save any space by building it yourself. You're trying to combine multiple general purpose boards and expecting that to be smaller than a single specialized board that's already been optimized for size.


^ this.

100% agree..

Trust me, I know.

I have created many boards and have used Arduino stuff extensively.

Trying 'roll your own' is fun.....

but has no real practical value (no matter how to try to spin it or justify it)

What 'we' do here.. is NOT the same as what Erv does.

Unless you are really an experienced C programmer... you'll be using pre-made libraries to work with/communicate with these external boards/components.

So your already locked into a pre-made set of 'tools' *(methods/functions) that may not meet your needs.

And you better have your coding skills up to par.. I'd say creating a good 'motion detection' system is not easy.

In general any board needs/has:

1.) Audio play back *(not only just triggering playback, but also the ability to loop sounds in a seamless/gapless loop)
2.) motion detection (either by swing/class sensors, or an accelerometer)
3.) led driver (components to effectively drive high powered leds.. now a days multipe die leds are the norm...and it needs to support blade effects... constant current drivers and not just voltage choppers)


getting all this to work in the space you have on the chip is also an obstacle at times..

not to mention any of the other cool features.. PLI, accent, leds..etc..etc...etc..


all the above being said..there is a thread/project/board already based on this ideology over at the Arduino forums.. board is available for purchase as well

[Darth Vand-Alar]

primarily i want their smart leds. that way each led is the sam color so ill get even mixing. i hope

[JakeSoft]

That would be a reasonable approximation.

You're definitely not going to save any space by building it yourself. You're trying to combine multiple general purpose boards and expecting that to be smaller than a single specialized board that's already been optimized for size.

I have to agree with this as well. I have traveled the path you are suggesting and built several of my own saber boards. While rewarding, the result never came out smaller than a Plector board. Unless you plan to etch your own PCBs, I don't see how it ever will. Most Plector boards are designed so that they can lay on top of a battery in an MHS hilt and therefore they add no additional length requirement.

However, don't let that discourage you from trying and building something truly unique. Just know what you are getting into. I suggest you hit the Arduino forums. There are no fewer than three threads on this exact topic.

[Sevinzol]

primarily i want their smart leds. that way each led is the sam color so ill get even mixing. i hope
That's done with resistors
The PC & Prism both support settings for color mixing and with a R.I.C.E. port you can do it really easy.

it seems you want to do this for 2 reasons
1) save space..........................Not going to happen
2) save money/time.................Not going to happen

Based on your post count I'm guessing this is your first attempt at building a saber. May I suggest you NOT try and re-invent the wheel. Unless you have a LOT of programing and soldering experience you are going to get really frustrated. Why not have fun first and then challenge yourself with the next saber (you know you're going to build more than one ;) ). Save up for a sound board or start with a cheap one out of a saber toy.

[xl97]

primarily i want their smart leds. that way each led is the sam color so ill get even mixing. i hope

I believe you are talking about Neopixel strips..

This requires very precise timing to run these. (the library handles that)... that means the processor is very busy can not easily do others as well..

your other boards (and hence their own chips) might still be able to play audio.....if you can sneak a command out...



but checking the accelerometer as often as needed probably wont happen... (possibly using timer 2?)

but it doesnt sound like have you have prior experience in this stuff?

as stated the goal or cheaper, easier, small, just isnt the case.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

then ill get the igniter 2 and some neopixels. i can get a rebel star board without the leds and use that as a base (unless i find out that the board wont take the neopixels, then im back to square one.) i can always send the board, chassis, and leds to my father who is an electrician and have him do the soldering. he works on projects that are this small. i just like the fact that each led can be mixed the way it is supposed to for the final color. at this point i'm thinking of using the adafruit boards if im making a light only saber.

[JakeSoft]

at this point i'm thinking of using the adafruit boards if im making a light only saber.

If you don't want sound, then doing a simple LED controller for lighting effects with general purpose boards should be pretty easy and cheap. It's sound playback coordinated with reacting to motion sensing that makes it so complicated. Without that, it's not bad if you know how to program.

[FenixFire]

then ill get the igniter 2 and some neopixels. i can get a rebel star board without the leds and use that as a base (unless i find out that the board wont take the neopixels, then im back to square one.) i can always send the board, chassis, and leds to my father who is an electrician and have him do the soldering. he works on projects that are this small. i just like the fact that each led can be mixed the way it is supposed to for the final color. at this point i'm thinking of using the adafruit boards if im making a light only saber.

You would be better off using an rgbw Cree if you want individual rgb dies. If I remember correctly the NeoPixles are only 15 or 18 mA LEDs. Basically an SMD version of a standard 5mm rgb accent led, and are only bright as a 20mA accent led. They were basically developed to incorporate into smart fabrics and other were able items. The are an accent lighting or display item not a lighting specific led like the rebel and Cree XP-E that were developed for lighting applications. You will be disappointed in brightness if mounting three to a star...you would also need a star specifically for that LED contact layout. Though if you could wire them in the serial fashion of a string blade, they would play quite nicely with a Neo driver.

[darth_chasm]

You would be better off using an rgbw Cree if you want individual rgb dies. If I remember correctly the NeoPixles are only 15 or 18 mA LEDs. Basically an SMD version of a standard 5mm rgb accent led, and are only bright as a 20mA accent led. They were basically developed to incorporate into smart fabrics and other were able items. The are an accent lighting or display item not a lighting specific led like the rebel and Cree XP-E that were developed for lighting applications. You will be disappointed in brightness if mounting three to a star...you would also need a star specifically for that LED contact layout.

This is absolutely correct. I've used the neopixel type led's (5050s) for a crystal chamber. They are not powerful enough to light an entire blade.

Examples...

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t649/DarthChasm/DCLS-004/th_IMG_0959_zpsiwj3s3qr.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/DarthChasm/media/DCLS-004/IMG_0959_zpsiwj3s3qr.jpg.html) http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t649/DarthChasm/DCLS-004/th_IMG_0961_zpsysdzngio.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/DarthChasm/media/DCLS-004/IMG_0961_zpsysdzngio.jpg.html)

EDIT: Disregard. Incorrect info provided.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

You would be better off using an rgbw Cree if you want individual rgb dies. If I remember correctly the NeoPixles are only 15 or 18 mA LEDs. Basically an SMD version of a standard 5mm rgb accent led, and are only bright as a 20mA accent led. They were basically developed to incorporate into smart fabrics and other were able items. The are an accent lighting or display item not a lighting specific led like the rebel and Cree XP-E that were developed for lighting applications. You will be disappointed in brightness if mounting three to a star...you would also need a star specifically for that LED contact layout. Though if you could wire them in the serial fashion of a string blade, they would play quite nicely with a Neo driver.

they have sequin leds that i had considered using for a string blade. i want to use both a string blade to simulate ignition and a star to make the blade evenly lit. would it work?

[Darth Vand-Alar]

i could always use the neopixels on a breadboard for testing my circuits. only question with that is if i set up resisters for the neopixels would the same resistances work for the luxeon tri-rebel? im custom ordering my star from luxeon to have deep red, royal blue and green.

[xl97]

??

I think you guys are confused.


* 5050 leds -are not- Neopixel LEDS.. while maybe sharing the same size/package (5050 sized).. they are totally different.

5050 are just 3 (R, G, B) dies under one 'dome'.. nothing more.

Neopixles (also come in other sizes than just 5050 package) have a tiny microcontoller in them..

(ie: individually addressable/contolled leds in your 'strip')

You dont get that in regular old 5050 RGB leds.

You can control a whole strip of Neopixels with 1 wire.. (not the case with regular RGB leds.. 1 per color/die.. and you dont individually control the color(s).. all red, or all green, or all blue..etc)

I have never heard of any NEC/Igniter board working with these strips (natively of course).. or a Plecter board for that matter either..



You CAN NOT take Neopipxels and mount them to a 'star'.. and do what with them? They wouldnt even light up.

You need to go back and re-read about what Neopixel and DotStar leds are.. and stop confusing them with plain old RGB leds.. (5050 is a package/dimension size.. so it means nothing)




they have sequin leds that i had considered using for a string blade. i want to use both a string blade to simulate ignition and a star to make the blade evenly lit. would it work?


No... and what would a 'star' do anyways?




only question with that is if i set up resisters for the neopixels would the same resistances work for the luxeon tri-rebel? im custom ordering my star from luxeon to have deep red, royal blue and green.


Again.. apples & oranges here..


1.) Neopixels run @ +5v... (with a very specific timing requirement).. single +5v power source.. with enough current to drive as many 'Neopixels' as you have in the strip.. so roughly 60mA per 'Neopixel' in the strip.


2.) "luxeon tri-rebel".. what one? what colors.. but most leds take (roughly) +3.v voltage.. with reds usually around +1.7-2.2v... (give or take of course)..

So you already have a 'difference' in required forward voltage.

The resistor use in Neopixels it to:

1.) protect the Arduino pin.. and protect the first Neopixel in the strip from blowing due to current when powering on/off the strip.. (which is why they also instruct you to connect things in a certain order..etc)



Your doing yourself a dis-service by planning a project using products you dont fully understand.. or following erroneous advice.


As JakeSoft mentions.. if you want to truly do a 'stunt' (ie: no sound).. then an Arduino Pro-Mini and a Neopixel strip will work... and shouldnt be that difficult.

good luck!

[Darth Vand-Alar]

"luxeon tri-rebel".. what one? what colors.. but most leds take (roughly) +3.v voltage.. with reds usually around +1.7-2.2v... (give or take of course)..
luxeon offers custom tri rebel stars just pic the leds you want from the drop down lists, they put them together and ship it to you.
here is the link: http://www.luxeonstar.com/any-3-rebel-leds-mounted-on-a-20mm-tri-star-sinkpad
mine will cost US $22.45 and will have deep red, royal blue, and green.

[darth_chasm]

Thanks as always for your clarification and help. OP, listen to xl97.

[FenixFire]

??

I think you guys are confused.



xl,

I am not confused, I have used them in the past, actually several times for various prototypes because of the programming when paired with an arduino. They are infact just a standard 18mA rgb or rgbw or warm white or even cool white SMD led (yes they are available in 3 smd sizes as well) mounted to one of several small individual boards, multi die rings, or flexible linear pcbs, or even as we did in one wareable prototype sewn directly into the conductive thread of the handbag. Then they add the smd resistors to protect from over-voltage surges and the PWM controllers to drive consistent color output and mixing when using the rgb and rgbw models.

[xl97]

Basically an SMD version of a standard 5mm rgb accent led



^ That is definitely -not- a correct statement. (maybe correct when referencing an SDM rgb led.. which is NOT what a "Neopixel" is)

The whole difference (and point) of Neopixels is that is has the integrated 'chip'.. allowing for the individual addressable features. (nothing like a normal RGB led)

You just add power (so to speak) to an RGB led.. you can NOT just do so with a "Neopixel".. They run at a specific timing to keep the color/fade..etc updated (multiplexing)

how do you do this without a mircocontroller?

[Darth Vand-Alar]

^ That is definitely -not- a correct statement.

The whole difference (and point) of Neopixels is that is has the integrated 'chip'.. allowing for the individual addressable feature. (nothing like a normal RGB led)

You just add power (so to speak) to an RGB led.. you can NOT just do so with a "Neopixel".. They run at a specific timing to keep the color/fade..etc updated (multiplexing)

how do you do this without a mircocontroller?

so a neopixel requires a driver while a standard 4 pin led requires resistors instead?

[xl97]

so a neopixel requires a driver while a standard 4 pin led requires resistors instead?

not only the integrated chip... but also code that properly communicate with the chips.

[Darth Vand-Alar]

so the 4 pin led is easier to use. assuming one can be found that is bright enough for sabers

[xl97]

so the 4 pin led is easier to use. assuming one can be found that is bright enough for sabers

Depends on what you want to use it for.


As Fenix pointed out above..

a regular '4-pin' RGB led (alone) is not bright enough to light a blade.. people made 'string blades'.. (ie: many leds in succession)

there are led (dies) that are 'high powered' (ie: require a lot of current).... which are used in the 'star' type (led blade) solutions..

(not the same as your run 'o the mill '4-pin' RGB led)