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Bescherman
01-23-2007, 05:51 PM
Hi to everyone. I’ve been lurking on these boards for some time after stumbling across them when researching Luxeon hilts. I’m now really keen on experimenting with constructing hilts since I have quite reasonable craft ability and some very basic electronic skills

I’ve found a number of tutorials, both on this site and elsewhere (Credit to Erv’ and Corbin for their sites) and have most of the information I need to go and buy my basic tools

However, I haven’t really found a thread that not only draws together what essential tools and materials you need, but also some of the most recommended by experienced builders. If something like this exists already then I’m sorry for duplicating it. I’ve searched all the FAQ threads and used the search feature but can’t find anything like it. *ducks for imminent flaming in case I’ve missed anything*

The closest I found was “Tools of the trade”: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=345&highlight=tools+trade

Here’s my list of what I think I need based on my reading so far. I’m sure that I’ve missed a load of things out so I’d really appreciate your input. I’ll try to keep this list updated as I get recommendations.

If you think any of these are not so important or are absolutely necessary then please let me know if they’re in the wrong list. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!


Electrics essentials:
-soldering iron and solder (Should I use any specific type? Variable temp, changeable tips? What about lead free solder?)
-pliers (flat and cutting)
-a multimeter

Manufacturing essentials:
- Safety Glasses
- Drill (and metal bits)
- Hot glue gun
- “Dremel” type rotary tool (and a multitude of accessories)
- Screw tap set (with tap or cutting oil)
- Hacksaw
- set of allen wrenches
- assorted wet/dry sand paper
- lots of masking tape
- Aluminum tape
- Aluminum added resin (Arametal for instance)
- Bi components mastic (epoxy resin)
- Cyanoacrylate glue (aka Super Glue 3) with accurate drop applicator


And the really useful but not essential list:
- Pillar drill (also a bench drill or drill press I believe)
- Vice
- Automatic wire stripper
- Pipe cutter

Ryma Mara
01-23-2007, 06:26 PM
As far as I know the solder to use is any with a rosin core .

Good luck with the list

Firebird21
01-23-2007, 06:32 PM
Dude, I don't think you're going to have to worry about any http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_flamedude.gif here if that's the type of resurch you do before posting! In fact, I think you're going to do rather well here.


Glad you've decided to come out of the shadows :D


http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_welcome.gif

Not much I can add to that list right now though... If I think of anything I'll post up.

Lord Maul
01-23-2007, 06:43 PM
you'll also want allen wrenches if you buy from here. the rose core solder is definently the best way to go. FYI, just because the solder iron is hot enough to melt solder doesn't mean it is ready to use. i normally wait like 5 min after it melts solder just to make sure it is super hot :P

xwingband
01-23-2007, 06:45 PM
As soon as I started reading... I thought of thread you posted in there. Yup, no flaming. We LOVE people that look before they jump (post). :D

To your list:
Solder- Clarifying... lead free and acid free if they have both (never seen both though). After a long bought of soldering cough up blood is no fun. In general soldering isn't too healthy at all even when done with "good" solder. Just the smell of the flux I use will give me a decent headache.

A set of files- flat, rounded and rat tail. Great for after cutting stuff out and cleaning up.

Electrical tape or heatshrink! The bloody stuff is awesome. It safes you from frying stuff and makes it all look better. :)

Have to echo the tap and drill set also. I always love having the the choice and a bunch of various set screws, socket heads, round heads, etc...

I'll add if I think of anything else I use frequently...

Madcow
01-23-2007, 06:53 PM
Welcome,
I agree - your list looks great. I hope you find all you need, and have fun experimenting.
We're here to help if we can!

I for one, find your post a refreshing return to the point of this forum!

Cheers,
MC

Tenric Starkindler
01-23-2007, 07:26 PM
I would definitely advocate a snake attachment for the rotary tool. the one I have (from www.sciplus.com) comes with a clamp mount and snake so I can focus on the cuts and not controlling the rotary tool itself.

I have also found something called "Solder glue" or something like that. You supposedly can use it to join wires. you paint it onto the emtwined wires and it creates an insulated connection. haven't used it yet but am going to when I can order from Tim soon.

Your list seems to be about as complete as I could imagine........good work!!

Ryma Mara
01-23-2007, 07:38 PM
Oh I would suggest a tap handle, Micrometer(not the name I forget it ATM buts thats the best name for it I could com up with) and a depth guage.

Do-Clo
01-23-2007, 07:45 PM
An impressive list, most impressive. You have done well in your research and the only thing I would add is a small fan to pull the solder fumes away from you so you don't inhale them. :wink:

Strydur
01-23-2007, 07:50 PM
Your not supposed to inhale them??? :roll:

xwingband
01-23-2007, 07:50 PM
An impressive list, most impressive. You have done well in your research and the only thing I would add is a small fan to pull the solder fumes away from you so you don't inhale them. :wink:

Stop being logical! :lol:

987654321a
01-23-2007, 07:57 PM
you also need a plasma cutter, a torch. lol im just messin, welcome

Do-Clo
01-23-2007, 08:50 PM
Your not supposed to inhale them??? :roll:

I think it causes drian bamage or something like that :shock: :)

vortextwist
01-23-2007, 08:54 PM
I was wandering about soldering irons. I have one but it seems for those small wires it is too big. I can't seem to get those 2 little wires together without a crap load of solder. anyone tried those cold heat ones? also tenric, what was that solder glue called?

xwingband
01-23-2007, 09:03 PM
I was wandering about soldering irons. I have one but it seems for those small wires it is too big. I can't seem to get those 2 little wires together without a crap load of solder. anyone tried those cold heat ones? also tenric, what was that solder glue called?

Solder paste. I've been midly interested in it for my non-saber stuff. Try solder four seperate pieces of raw music wire together! Loads of fun...

I don't know what others do but if just twisting them to hold isn't feasible I always have two strips of electrical tape and tape them down. I'm not an octopus so whenever I can just tape them down I do.

vortextwist
01-23-2007, 09:18 PM
hey I didn't think about the tapeing thing.

Do-Clo
01-23-2007, 10:33 PM
Here is a newer version of a nifty little tool that I have had forever it is a big help when it comes to soldering.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104639&cp=2032058.2032236.2032314&pg=2&parentPage=family

Jedi-Loreen
01-23-2007, 11:29 PM
What 2 little wires are you talking about, Vortex? That's making me think of EL you're talking about, but maybe not.

I have one of those Helping Hands, but mine doesn't have the soldering iron holder and sponge. Those are invaluable when you are working on EL stuff.

Stay away from the Cold Heat tools, they are crap. :?

01-24-2007, 02:36 AM
I was wandering about soldering irons. I have one but it seems for those small wires it is too big. I can't seem to get those 2 little wires together without a crap load of solder. anyone tried those cold heat ones? also tenric, what was that solder glue called?

Hey Vortex, I have the Cold Heat Pro. I works really good for general soldering, but not that great for getting into a small spot like a sound board. All of the tips have a slot cut in the middle of them, and in order to make contact, both sides of the tip have to be touching something conductive.

darthdan
01-24-2007, 04:03 AM
also if you put any kind of pressure on the tip it will break in half and be useless. I've also found it hard to get a good connection when soldering speaker wire, it doesn't do multiple strands at once very well.

vortextwist
01-24-2007, 04:08 AM
What 2 little wires are you talking about, Vortex? That's making me think of EL you're talking about, but maybe not.

I have one of those Helping Hands, but mine doesn't have the soldering iron holder and sponge. Those are invaluable when you are working on EL stuff.

Stay away from the Cold Heat tools, they are crap. :?
well the wires commin off of an mr soundboard are prettty tinny.

xwingband
01-24-2007, 06:42 AM
Here is a newer version of a nifty little tool that I have had forever it is a big help when it comes to soldering.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104639&cp=2032058.2032236.2032314&pg=2&parentPage=family

Nice but I don't feel like paying for something two pieces of tape will do well enough. :) Cheap... maybe.

Bescherman
01-24-2007, 06:48 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. It's nice to feel welcome!

One problem I've been having is that when I originally posted this thread (and when I try to update the list) I got a message saying:
Usage of forbidden word
We're very sorry, your post request hold for moderation.
A site administrator will be notified and will approve your post.

If you don't want this to happen in the future go visit the groups page and subscribe to the 'Bypass words' group


However, the "groups" link is dead. Any ideas? I don't want to have to go through moderation every time I post!

It's trying to link here: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/forum/groupcp.$phpEx


Anyway... aside from that (back to the tools), I have another couple of questions.
1 - What are Vice grips? Are they simply a rubber grip that fits your vice jaws so you don't damage the finish of what you're working on?
2 - Dremel. I've found a few offers on new Dremel packages on ebay that include the flexi tool and other stuff. Is it worth buying new or am I just as well buying a used one and the accessories separately? Do these things really wear out?

I'm looking at this kind of auction:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290073850693&rd=1&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150084477917&rd=1&rd=1

Whereas one went used a couple of days ago here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3APIC&viewitem=&item=330076339498&rd=1&rd=1

Incidently Do-Clo, I have one of those "helping Hands" alredy, just not the soldering version. Nifty bit of kit!

jjshumpert
01-24-2007, 08:29 AM
the second listing you posted for 10 euros is pretty good, us currency i believe thats around 125.00, a new dremel motor is usually around 60.00, the flex adapter 40.00, and the bit sets run 35.00, i would go for it. keep in mind that it doesnt have to necesarily say dremel on the side, i have a GRIP brand rotary that i use most often in the shop that is a dremel motor in a cheaper casing. the bits are of a lower grade than what you would get with the dremel but i paid 20.00 new for the set and 36.00 for a 300 piece set of dremel bits to use with it.

one thing i use in building custom hilts you might look into is fiberglass. you will see often ppl using thin pvc cut to make designs or grips on hilts, which turns out looking great but can wear badly over time, and can be hard to find in the right sizes for your desired look. with fiberglass you can control shape, design, texture, strength, thickness, and its rather simple to work with... smells bad while in aplication but once cured is incredibly strong and almost always permanent. you also have the ability to mix color into fiberglass resin before applying it to your project. the benefits here are you get a good color to your parts that is actually inside the material, as oposed to paint which can chip, flake, or peel if not applied correctly and can also fade over time.

when you find the soldering iron you like, go by your local hobby stores that sell woodburning supplies and they should have small sets of tips for use in woodburning that you can put to good use in your sabers. you had mentioned the tips being too large, which is a problem i think we all have run into at one point or another... i have quite a few tips that i bought from the local hobby shop that are needle tipped and can be found either straight or with a 60 degree bend, and they are quite helpful in doing small applications like working with mr switches and sound modules. the packs here are generally 5.00 for 8 various tips. it also might be in your interest to look at both electric and gas powered irons. i just picked up a butane iron a month ago that will accept all the tips im currently using, is small, and works great. i can get about 3 hours of use out of a full tank of butane (same fuel as used in torch cigarette lighters) the iron takes roughly 13 seconds to heat to operating temperature and is about the size of a large ink pen... it is currently my favorite saber tool investment, which i paid 60.00 for from a tool supplier online.

great to have you posting in the forums Bescherman! its always a treat to see a new member that did in fact research the tutorials before posting questions galore... a good number of our members come simply wanting someone to tell them "put this here and that there and it will work" instead of asking questions that will allow them to understand and learn. and let me tell you there are some great ppl here who have been longtime members that have a world of knowledge dealing with hilt design and wiring diagrams.

xwing, do-clo, james3, jtsteph, firebird, ambo, and myself just to name a few are all great guys and between us can and are always willing to help ppl work out a problem.

when i first got into the saber shop i had been out of electronics for nearly 10 years... james3 helped me greatly getting my mind geared back into electrical application and is always there to help whenever i may run into a snag, the guy even gave me his home number so we could work out electronics setups real time. when i started drawing out my last project, a 5w electronics kit from tim with mr sound using one activation switch, james was able to take where i was wanting to go with the hilt and describe to me in 5 min over the phone where i would need to make my connections and why it would work for my application...

once again welcome to the forums Bescherman and lots of luck to you in your upcoming projects, its great to have a new mind and ideas come into the group!

james3
01-24-2007, 10:10 AM
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_jawdrop.gif

Could it be!

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_jump.gif

WOO HOO!!!! Welcome to TCSS!!! This is soooo refreshing.

MasterStoney
01-24-2007, 10:59 AM
Here is a newer version of a nifty little tool that I have had forever it is a big help when it comes to soldering.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104639&cp=2032058.2032236.2032314&pg=2&parentPage=family

That little beauty comes in handy. i have one of those and i use it all the time when soldering. It works well when painting small objects too.

Bescherman
01-24-2007, 11:20 AM
Thanks so much jjshumpert. I really appreciate the offer of help and am very grateful of the warm welcomes I've had so far!

The Fiberglass thing: I've had a little experience working with fiberglass before when repairing kayaks and my surfboard. Nothing that needed to be neat or even artistic though! It's a really interesting avenue for creating my own ornate hilts. I find myself drawn to more "Sith" looking hilts. This link has been posted before but I LOVE this guy's work: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/ADVANCED-LIGHT-WEAPONRY_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm
I believe that a lot of that might be done with fiberglass.

The woodburning tips sound like a good possibility. I assume they jjust fit onto a standard soldering iron then? I did a week and a half of temp work at a company that manufactured electrical cables and spent about 2 whole days soldering there. I got quite a hang of it! We were using soldering irons with a separate power unit and interchangeable tips. Woodburning tips might be a good substitute since I already have a load of soldering equipment.

Rotary tool: I'm still sussing out what is the best buy. I've seen the threads where others recommend some of the non-dremel brands they use. I wan't too sure about buying a non "Dremel" branded tool incase it was a big greasy turd! Some of the cheaper ones don't have the RPM to match Dremel (only 10,000 - 20,000 for example).

The one second link I posted is actually in Pounds and is (unfortunately) the starting price! £10 plus £9 postage is only $37 USD. If the price stays low I'll buy it though! I've also found the Stylus for £65.98 w postage ($130 USD) but it only goes up to 25,000:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dremel-Stylus-Cordless-Lithium-Rotary-Power-Tool-NEW_W0QQitemZ150081963491QQihZ005QQcategoryZ29528Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
And a new MULTI PRO 395 VS for £56.98 w postage ($112.020 USD): http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DREMEL-MULTI-PRO-395-VS-CORDED-ROTARY-POWER-TOOL_W0QQitemZ120076906140QQihZ002QQcategoryZ29528 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyway, I don't really expect anyone to "tell me" what to do. I'm just posting the links for reference.

I'll definately be needing help with any wiring tht is non standard. My electronic skills and understanding is very basic. I'll come asking when I need help! I've submitted a thread under "LED Hilts and Wiring" about glow Staffs but I'm waiting for it to pass the moderation process. There's some electrical questions in there already! I'll post the link once it's up.

Cheers again, and hi! Bescherman

Strydur
01-24-2007, 11:22 AM
Bescherman,

I am not totally sure why yet but yours and only your posts keep tripping the spam filters. So bare with me for now and I will approve your posts as fast as I can while I try and figure this out.

jjshumpert
01-24-2007, 01:20 PM
most of the irons i have are described as wood burning irons. i have a few that are cheap from wal-mart, some weller, and the new butane rig is a thompson, all of which have threaded tips that will interchange between the 10 or so i own

the rotary tool i use most is basically the first model of the dremel multi-tool in a bright orange casing, and came with really cheap bits that broke almost as soon as i would put a load on them, but the motor itself is made by black and decker. as for the rpm range i have no clue since it was printed on a box that is long since gone, but i can tell you it has a numbered dial on the side ranging from 0 to 6 for speed adjustment. between 1 and 2 is great for sanding, 2 and 3 with a cone grinder is good for folowing up on cuts made with a cutoff wheel or drillsaw bit, 3 to 4 is usually the range i will run for sinktubes, 4 to 5 falls into your routing speeds for making switch recessions or punching holes with a expansion bit, and at 6 a new sanding wheel will burn its way right thru a 1.5 sink tube in about 10 seconds...

if you like the stuff from advanced light weaponry i would sugjest getting yourself a couple of packs of basketweave fiberglass cloth and a small can of resin, make yourself about a 6 inch square of cardboard and glass on about 8 to 10 layers worth of cloth/resin to use as a practice board. the cone shaped grinding tool is excelent for doing fine detail work on glass hilts imo. and if all else fails and you cut a line to deep or just dont like it on a hilt, its fiberglass after all and you can always fill it in again. the only thing you wouldnt want to do in a final hilt is use a body filler, and if your going to have any deep channels or grooves in the hilt then wrap a 1.25 sink tube in glass for structure, but otherwise ive made hilts that were nothing more than fiberglass and electronics and i use them in training more than i do any of my sinktube or mr hilts... they are imo the best feeling in the hand and the ballance can be adjusted easily to fit the user

Bescherman
01-24-2007, 01:29 PM
Cheers Tim. I promise I'm not using naughty words.

Incidently, I didn't mean to quote his jj's whole post. I just quoted it as a reference but forgot to take it out! I'll edit but it will have to be appreved again!

Could the spam fileter be anything to do with the setup of my account? The activation email didn't dome through and you had to activate it for me.

Strydur
01-24-2007, 01:30 PM
It shouldnt do it anymore.

Tenric Starkindler
01-24-2007, 07:40 PM
Rotary tool I use.

Rotary Tool Set
Not every well-made rotary tool is a big-D. We consider this one not only a good-quality tool, but an excellent buy. The fitted plastic carrying case 12" x 8-1/2" x 3-1/2" contains not only the 120VAC-powered 8,000-30,000 rpm mini grinder, but a stand with a C-clamp to mount it on a bench or table, a 3-ft extension shaft, and a good assortment of bits, grinding stones, cut-off wheels, etc, including collets to fit 1/8" and 1/16" bits. The telescoping stand extends from 10" to almost 22" and holds the tool above your work, while you grind, sand, cut, etc., with the tip of the convenient, easy-to-grip, flexible extension. A nice package, and a very nice gift for yourself, or for anyone who enjoys working with hobby tools.
92283 MINI GRINDER $29.95 / EACH

Glue I mentioned

Soldering Gun in a Jar
Wire glue-the solution when you can't find the soldering iron, don't want to bother, are out in the woods, don't quite trust a fifth-grader with a hot gun, can't reach the connection with both hands, whatever. This stuff conducts low voltage AC and DC circuits in a permanent bond and is easy to use. Our high-tech support group suggests that a toothpick is a good way to apply it. Cures overnight. Our each is a 0.3 oz/9ml jar.
92838 WIRE GLUE $4.95 / EACH

Both available from www.sciplus.com

vortextwist
01-24-2007, 07:58 PM
haha, when I first read the link I thought it said "siflis"