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erlomd
01-30-2016, 10:08 AM
Just wanted to know what are your takes on either of them...pros and cons...etc.

Im leaning towards the bass speaker for a fuller deeper tone that seems like it would work better with darker more deeper sound fonts. I have no experience with either speaker (or custom saber for that matter). Im building a Graflex 2.0 at the moment with a NBv3 and would like to know more about these two speakers offered at TCSS.

Im also wondering if there is a way to adjust a saber font using either of the 2 speakers in real time (just as you would adjust an EQ for music). so that you can adjust a sound font that you have purchased for optimum quality depending on your speaker & sound card.

Greenie
01-30-2016, 12:53 PM
I purchased a 28mm premium for my first build but I killed it with some light sparring with my 6yr old daughter! I replaced it with the 28mm bass and although I couldn't really compare them together.......whoa! The bass is loud and I would recommend it ;)

CET
01-30-2016, 02:01 PM
The bass is 2w vs the premium 1.5w, so there's a difference there. I've tried using the bass speaker in every one of my builds and it always sounds terrible to me. There's no high end sounds and it sounds very "rattley" to me.

It's possible that I've got a bad speaker, because it seems like everyone raves about them.

erlomd
01-30-2016, 02:02 PM
I purchased a 28mm premium for my first build but I killed it with some light sparring with my 6yr old daughter! I replaced it with the 28mm bass and although I couldn't really compare them together.......whoa! The bass is loud and I would recommend it ;)

Thanks! I'm guessing that these are the same speakers used in many of the high bass bluetooth portable speakers like beats or JBL...hmmm...

erlomd
01-30-2016, 02:06 PM
The bass is 2w vs the premium 1.5w, so there's a difference there. I've tried using the bass speaker in every one of my builds and it always sounds terrible to me. There's no high end sounds and it sounds very "rattley" to me.

It's possible that I've got a bad speaker, because it seems like everyone raves about them.

its also possible that there might be acoustic interference as well...maybe loose wires? or vibrating against the metal walls of the saber if there isn't a some sort of sound damping?
the lack of highs is what I'm worried about...thats why I asked if there is a way to equalize the sound of a sound font to better distribute the higher frequencies

CET
01-30-2016, 02:21 PM
its also possible that there might be acoustic interference as well...maybe loose wires? or vibrating against the metal walls of the saber if there isn't a some sort of sound damping?

Not sure how likely that is. I've done some pretty thorough testing with speaker holders, chassis placement, padding, etc. When I swap it with a premium speaker, it sounds fantastic!


the lack of highs is what I'm worried about...thats why I asked if there is a way to equalize the sound of a sound font to better distribute the higher frequencies

I was using bass heavy sound fonts in my tests for that reason. The NB comes with a "dark meat" font and I have one based on Darth Maul's saber.

Manadono
01-31-2016, 07:09 AM
Thanks! I'm guessing that these are the same speakers used in many of the high bass bluetooth portable speakers like beats or JBL...hmmm...

The 2w bass speaker bears a strong resemblance to the XMINI 2 drivers, which sound pretty good, even without a resonance chamber (although they do have a collapsible baffle). Although the fact of whether they're the same speaker is still a mystery.

Darth Vislir
02-01-2016, 06:56 AM
Not sure how likely that is. I've done some pretty thorough testing with speaker holders, chassis placement, padding, etc. When I swap it with a premium speaker, it sounds fantastic!



I was using bass heavy sound fonts in my tests for that reason. The NB comes with a "dark meat" font and I have one based on Darth Maul's saber.

getting a program like audacity and turning down the gain might help. But mine sounded awesome out of the box. I'm always drawn to dark meat because of the bass when I'm switching through fonts. You are right, might be a bad unit.

erlomd
02-03-2016, 09:51 AM
The 2w bass speaker bears a strong resemblance to the XMINI 2 drivers, which sound pretty good, even without a resonance chamber (although they do have a collapsible baffle). Although the fact of whether they're the same speaker is still a mystery.

I saw the specs for the mini driver, and its a 2w 40mm 4ohms speaker...although small, not small enough to fit in a chamber that barely fits a 28mm speaker...would be nice to have some top notch acoustics chamber molded into a chassis though...hmmm...

erlomd
02-03-2016, 09:52 AM
getting a program like audacity and turning down the gain might help. But mine sounded awesome out of the box. I'm always drawn to dark meat because of the bass when I'm switching through fonts. You are right, might be a bad unit.

so your saying that with the audacity program, you can modify the EQ settings of your sound fonts?...thats sweet!

erlomd
02-03-2016, 09:54 AM
I wonder how this setup would work in conjunction with the NBv3...

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Forgetful Jedi Knight
02-03-2016, 10:27 AM
I wonder how this setup would work in conjunction with the NBv3...

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It probably wouldn't.

Darth Vislir
02-03-2016, 10:39 AM
so your saying that with the audacity program, you can modify the EQ settings of your sound fonts?...thats sweet!

You can do a lot with that program. Including and not limited to making your own fonts and modifying existing ones.

hapki
02-03-2016, 06:58 PM
I've always liked the bass speaker. It seems to have a fuller sound.

erlomd
02-03-2016, 08:41 PM
I think the 2w 28mm bass speaker is made by VECO...I found the specs on it here:
http://www.elitaliaweb.it/upload/catalogo/categorie/acustica/sottocategoria_71/schedepdf/pdf/VecoAltRotondi-28-30-34.pdf

and heres a dimensions Pic:

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snilam
02-04-2016, 07:25 PM
I think its all a matter of preference. The bass speaker sounds better for your hums and some swings and the premium sounds better for your clashes and other sound fx and is a bit clearer. Each has their own strong suits. If I had to choose one over the other I would have to choose the premium by a small margin. I think it sounds better for your activation and retraction sounds which is big for me. But then again that all depends on your font as well.

Darth Vislir
02-04-2016, 08:16 PM
Has anyone tried to wire two speakers in parallel or series? 2x16ohm speakers would be 8ohm in parallel; and 2x4 in series would be 8ohm. the board should handle it right?

darth_chasm
02-04-2016, 09:06 PM
Has anyone tried to wire two speakers in parallel or series? 2x16ohm speakers would be 8ohm in parallel; and 2x4 in series would be 8ohm. the board should handle it right?

Yes, but I didn't feel it made much of a difference, none in fact. Certainly not enough to sacrifice the space for a second speaker. Also, you're not getting a more dynamic range as you're still dealing with one channel audio.

Darth Vislir
02-04-2016, 09:24 PM
even if you use one bass and one premium? I might wire it up when I have both speakers just to test it out.

Greenie
02-05-2016, 02:59 PM
Lets not forget that resonance plays a big part. Just covering my recharge port with a thumb changes the 'depth of sound'

hapki
02-05-2016, 06:57 PM
I found a board at Adafruit that takes one input and modulates the sound to create (or simulate) stereo sound. I don't know if it is really stereo, but it does make the sound more dynamic. I use one 28 mm speaker and one 3 watt speaker I tore off an old macbook. The board requires 3.7 v, which can run from the PC, CF, etc.

snilam
02-05-2016, 07:16 PM
Has anyone tried to wire two speakers in parallel or series? 2x16ohm speakers would be 8ohm in parallel; and 2x4 in series would be 8ohm. the board should handle it right?

yes I have and I might have had good luck with it unlike the others that had tried it but it sounded great! used 1 premium and one bass. using them in parallel gave a 4 ohm load which will also get max power from the amp.

link to a vid demo

https://youtu.be/AqvLeg194wY

edit* link to original thread of dual speaker saber
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?18711-Snilam-s-Frankenflex

Darth Vislir
02-05-2016, 07:21 PM
Thanks for the video. Awesome sabers.

darth_chasm
02-05-2016, 07:23 PM
Your results are by far better than what I got. I should note that my attempt was with 2 laptop speakers and a Nano.

snilam
02-05-2016, 07:25 PM
Your results are by far better than what I got. I should note that my attempt was with 2 laptop speakers and a Nano.

it took a lot of work and took even more space. the cc/speaker module is made up of essentially 4 speaker holders welded together and was also the switch cradle.

erlomd
02-07-2016, 11:10 PM
great job! I wonder if stacking (or lining) the speakers (bass in the back and premium in front) will make for a good sound as well?
I see that the new amazon echo is designed similarly (1 bass 1 mid/high range speaker) and it sounds great...maybe just make a saber out of an amazon echo then...lol

cram fu experts anyone?:o

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CET
02-07-2016, 11:28 PM
The inside of a MHS part is 1.25" at most. That device, though cool looking, is over 2".

Silver Serpent
02-08-2016, 05:48 AM
I think he was just looking at it from a design standpoint, not that he wanted to put the Amazon Echo module inside of his saber.

I've never heard of anyone doing that in a saber. I've seen a few sabers with 2 speakers though. Give it a shot and tell us how it works out for you.

erlomd
02-08-2016, 06:43 AM
The inside of a MHS part is 1.25" at most. That device, though cool looking, is over 2".

your funny! that would be a very useful saber though..."alexa, power on!"...alexa, destroy the empire and play AC/DC back in black" lol

erlomd
02-08-2016, 06:44 AM
I think he was just looking at it from a design standpoint, not that he wanted to put the Amazon Echo module inside of his saber.

I've never heard of anyone doing that in a saber. I've seen a few sabers with 2 speakers though. Give it a shot and tell us how it works out for you.

well, now I'm going to have to! :)

erlomd
02-11-2016, 07:23 AM
does anyone recommend the 20mm mini speaker?

Cire Yeldarb
02-11-2016, 11:38 AM
does anyone recommend the 20mm mini speaker?

Its okay, I've used it twice now. You definitely need some good resonance around it, or it will disappoint you: I used it in Antikva and it sounded great! Used it in a build I'm making now with less natural resonance and its not the greatest and if I had the space I would switch out for a premium.

In other words: It Depends(tm)

Greenie
02-11-2016, 02:50 PM
I've just used one for a reverse sound set up in a smaller build. I'm pretty happy with it, considering the amount of room I had to fit it in the choke, about an inch behind the heatsink. It does 'hum' from the blade holder surprisingly well but if cram fu was not such an issue, I would just go with the 28mm bass.

snilam
02-11-2016, 08:01 PM
I've used the 20mm a few times. its decent but if you can get a 28mm speaker in there don't go for the 20mm. like any kind of speaker is all about air pressure and the less cone area you have the less sound pressure it can create with everything else being equal.

erlomd
02-12-2016, 07:48 AM
thanks again guys...all your feedback should all go into creating a new york times best seller: "how to build a lightsaber" :)

Manadono
02-25-2016, 06:52 PM
I saw the specs for the mini driver, and its a 2w 40mm 4ohms speaker...although small, not small enough to fit in a chamber that barely fits a 28mm speaker...would be nice to have some top notch acoustics chamber molded into a chassis though...hmmm...

yeah, actually thinking about it it's a massive speaker compared. Guess my brain wasn't screwed in right when I posted that, hahaha.

Ravenbom
06-08-2017, 09:13 AM
Madcow actually has a video for TCSS about this very question.
It covers bass vs premium and quite a bit on the importance of resonance as well as speaker placement.
https://youtu.be/XOWnNJE3dRA

He also quiet smartly uses a JST or other connector to his speakers so he can swap them out and demonstrate the difference on the same saber, wish I had bothered to do that. (I'm actually thinking about going back and trying that myself)

For my first build, I went for a replica (non-TCSS) graflex and I found that a 1-3/8" OD aluminum pipe with an inside diameter of 1-1/4" would fit inside perfectly in the graflex shell and allow me to build using parts from TCSS. It also made a really nice resonance chamber, in particular for the bass speaker.
In fact, with the huge resonance chamber for the bass speaker it *almost* doesn't matter if I'm vented for sound. I've tried it with two graflex bottoms, one ANH where I kind of ruined two drill bits drilling into the 10-32 button head allen bolt holding the D-ring for my stealth sound hole and one where I have two 1/4" holes under the kobald D ring for the TFA/ESB bottom.

But, the bass speaker doesn't sound great with certain fonts. I've been busy/lazy so I haven't messed with fonts much.

So, with a good resonance chamber, I'd say the bass speaker is a good choice. And (for me) loud enough that you don't really need to make sound holes if you're not comfortable cutting into your parts. (Like any speaker, it needed the resonance chamber to be that loud)

That being said, the premium might sound a little more true (because a lot of saber sounds are high pitched) and work with more fonts.


I bought both speakers for this build and part of the reason I went with the bass is it seemed more robust, from reading comments, people seem to have premiums burn out after a while (might be a dueling issue?). But the main reason I used it was because the polished metal on the bass speaker looked a little better when I take the bottom off my replica graflex (still working on etching the aluminum tube for display). It matched the aluminum tube inner chassis better.

TL;DR - In my particular build, replica Graflex, looks were the most important consideration. So I went with a bass speaker.


*of course it matters, it just minimized the effect of the sound holes

Last thought - I was trying to be as careful as possible but I still accidentally touched the membrane of my speaker during wiring/installation. That might have been disastrous if I had used a premium speaker but the bass speaker has that metal part over the membrane. So I think it might be a little more robust/forgiving in terms of user error.


Also, I don't want to double post, so to the people who used/are considering using dual speaker set ups, I think instead of having a premium with a bass behind it, you might want to consider the opposite mounting.
I used to be a musician so here's my thought: bass sounds usually need a larger resonance chamber due to the nature of the longer frequency of the sound wave. Think about how bass brass instruments like a baritone sax is 3-4 times the size/weight of a soprano sax. Or compare a tuba to a flute.
A good (electric) bass cabinet is usually considered to be a 1x15 while a good electric guitar cab is usually a 4x12. Or how a double bass is twice the size of a cello and about 16 times more wood than a violin.
I'm never going to make a dual speaker set up, so it's just a thought.