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dbraxton9
12-26-2005, 06:08 PM
many people talk about the problems with LED blades being uneven, having dark spots or hot spots. there is much discussion about diffusers, filters, reflective material in the tip to reflect the light back down the tube, etc. What difference does it make if you have say a 30" blade vs a 40" one? is it easier to get the effect desired if you use one size or another?
DB

xwingband
12-26-2005, 06:22 PM
If you do any of those methods correctly there will be no difference between a 40" and 30". The only time you could get spotty light is with a blade film that is not aligned correctly. Otherwise it's mostly preference. Some say 40" is a "floppy" blade.

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GeluKhanGharr
12-27-2005, 01:48 AM
i beg to differ xwingband. It is my impression that the dimmest spot on a 40 inch blade is at about 28 inches from the LED, no matter how well you align it. That is why I make my blades 32 inches, out of which 2 inches are in the holder. That way my blades at the dimmest spot are brighter than MRs, and mostly visible only in photographs. To the naked eye they are just bright and even, and they don't flex and are easy to swing around.

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
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JediSaberSmith
12-27-2005, 03:34 AM
A agree, the blades do light up more evenly when the blade is shorter. I belive that there is no need for a 40 inch blade. At that length they are in fact floppy. Im 6'4" tall and can't effectivly use a hilt with a 40" blade inserted. I think the length of the FX saber blades is perfect at approx 33" {exposed}.

JediSaberSmith
An Elegant Weapon From A More Civilized Age

LAN-ED-TUL
12-27-2005, 07:53 AM
i set mine to be 36 outside with 2 inches in the holder. seems to be ok to me, but a friend said it did look dimmer at the end. i also havent tried it though, using tims diffuser in it. i have corbins film in there right now. i think the diffuser tim has may diffuse the light more evenly all the way to tip. i will see when the tube arrives and post a couple pics.

dbraxton9
12-27-2005, 08:38 AM
ok, what is this stuff about "aligning" the diffuser? it's just a sleeve that slips inside the poly tube right? how do you align or misalign it?
also,I have an EL saber with a 30" blade because I'm 5'9" and a blade that is over half my height is too long to wield. I've seen the fanfilms with the 40" 3/4" blades and they look silly the way they flop around. my 30" is a little bendy but not too bad. at least it bends on impact rather than with the wind!
my next saber will be LED and hopefully the 1" poly tube will be stiffer. are the 40" blades with 1" poly tubes stiffer too?
DB

tetmatek
12-27-2005, 08:41 AM
I'm with you GeluKhanGharr that length seems to be the best for the LED and is more manageable to use and transport. I have a 26 inch blade for testing certain things also. It is so short it would make a nice billy club or stopping an intruder in the house without taking out any overhead lights. LOL

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xwingband
12-27-2005, 11:48 AM
I have never seen a dim spot on a single LED other than the length getting dim as it should. Unless you are talking about the MR LED strings which can have dim spots. Otherwise why in the world would there be a dim spot? I imagine that's more of an optics problem.

dbraxton9, the misalignment we are talking about is with a blade film like corbin's which reflects the light back in somewhat to get the core effect. The diffuser Strydur sells is more like what is used in EL saber. It just directs the light up (I dont know a better way of saying it).

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GeluKhanGharr
12-27-2005, 02:07 PM
xwing, as a picture is worth a thousand words, here it is:
http://www.illumisabers.com/miscpic/17_06.JPG

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
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xwingband
12-27-2005, 04:16 PM
Well, I'm not suprised the MR is uniform. How could it not be with a string of LEDs?

I bet without the reflective tip there is no dim spot, right? That seems more a product of a reflective tip that needs to be tweaked. I also bet you are using a diffuser like Strydur's too.

EDIT: Also is that the same tip you use on a shorter blade? You can't use the same reflective tip. On a longer one you'd need to change the curve (if there's any) to get it to cover the dimming of the blade down the length.

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GeluKhanGharr
12-27-2005, 06:42 PM
True, without the reflective tip there is no dim spot, the intensity simply tapers off and the blade is much dimmer at the top than at the base. I don't like that, I would like it to be the same intensity throughout, like an EL blade. So that dim spot is kinda anoying. The reflective tip itself is simply a flat surface with a flat mirror on it.
I am not sure what film Tim uses, but I have my own method which I'll be disclosing after I sell 5 more sabers. I have spent sooooo much researching these things, I won't share the secret until I made the money back. But I'll tell you this much, my method makes the blade much brighter and more even than the stock MR diffuser. I just got Corbin's film and I want to compare it to mine, but I need to build a couple of sabers first. I'll post pics when I have them...probably in a couple of weeks.

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LAN-ED-TUL
12-28-2005, 08:10 AM
myself i really didnt see a dimming towards the end like my friend did. but i definately have a great looking coring effect all the way to the end. which i will lose that with tims diffuser, but on the positive side, it will definately be more evenly lit all the way to end. i am going to see what the differnces betweenst the 2 are, corbins film and tims diffuser and just use what looks the best. Gelu, that would be awesome of ya to share your blade building method. the more info that gets shared around only helps to produce better sabers. thats what its all about.

GeluKhanGharr
12-28-2005, 01:36 PM
ow, the hell with it, I'll post it as soon as Tim gives me the ok. It does compete with an item he sells, but it's not cheaper.

Tim, the method I told you before for diffusion. To share or not to share?

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
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Strydur
12-28-2005, 01:43 PM
share away..

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

GeluKhanGharr
12-28-2005, 02:32 PM
Alright then, here it is. I started with the ideea we don't need a "diffuser" for LED blades, but a refflector. A diffuser is good for MR's method, it's good for EL, but not for LED. A diffuser takes away from the light intensity and dissperses it as heat. Low and un-noticeable, but it's there.
Anyway, to cut it short, I use perfectly clear film, about 7 feet of it and roll it up. The light gets bounced between the layers before it escapes, and there is no diffuser loss. Using this method, my 1 watt royal blue - the one with the lowest lumens rating, lit up a blade brighter than the 2005 Anakin FX - the brightest FX i've seen to date. There is also a coring effect produced, it is however the reverse of Corbin's film. The blade is darker in the center. Maybe I should use about 20 feet of the stuff, I don't know, I haven't tried it yet. I picked up mine at a local World Market - the last of it. It was sold as wrapping foil. I don't know of any other sources, but if Tim checks with his plastics sources and there is a demand for it, i'm sure he'd make it available in the store. The main difference between this and a typical MR style diffuser is difficulty of installation. I wrapp mine on a dowel and insert it, but this operation must be done in a VERY clean environment because any speck caught between the layers will light-up like a firefly. After inserting it, the stuff is so slippery it will come out of the PolyC too easy, so I cork it with a piece if PolyE tubing. Another limitation is the blade length - the foil comes in 30 inches width. I like shorter blades, but ideal to me would be about 33 inches.
Anyway, my son, my wife and all my friends concur that these blades are brighter and look better than the ones with MR diffusers. They look better even when not lit, as the many layers of clear plastic give them a metalic look. I must have tried 20 different kinds of light dispersing methods before discovering this one. It is better even than special prismatic fiberoptic cable. I have invested close to $1000, so I hope you all understand my reservation on sharing this info so soon - I have only sold 3 sabers with these blades so far - not enough time to make them.

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
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xwingband
12-28-2005, 04:24 PM
You tried fiberoptic cable? Was it the 3M stuff or the generic sideglow? I've heard the generic stuff stinks but the 3M is worthwhile stuff but a major pain to get. I really like it from others messing with it but they said it wasn't worth it (their opinion I liked it a lot).

On your method:
What is this wrapping foil like? Is it opaque or transparent? Shinny or Dull?

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GeluKhanGharr
12-28-2005, 04:41 PM
Generic sideglow.
shinny and transparent - perfectly clear celophane like

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xwingband
12-28-2005, 05:18 PM
Was it possibly acetate then? Clear and shiny... fits the bill to me. It may be too thick (1/48) it's slightly less thick than the sheets you'd get for overhead tranperencies. It can be bought in huge rolls for a decent price. Rolled up it certainly looks like the stuff I've seen in your auctions.

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vadeblade
12-28-2005, 11:29 PM
GeluKhanGharr, when you role up this sheet, do you get some sort spacing between the layers?

I live about 5 minutes from a Tap Plastics, how thick is that plastic foil? how would it compare to printer paper? Tap has huge roles of all kinds of plastic sheets, maybe they have a role wider than 30 inches.I can go there tomorrow and look around.
-v

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade." http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

GeluKhanGharr
12-29-2005, 12:12 AM
The stuff I use is almost as thick as a sheet of paper, thinner than the transparency sheets for overhead projection. I don't do anything to induce spacing between the layers, they lay on top of eachother. But that's alright and it still goes with what I said before - the light bounces between the surfaces, it doesn't have to have actual gaps to travel.

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
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Protein5000
12-29-2005, 02:09 AM
So there are no dim bits on your blade? I think I saw a blue blade pic on this forum that was very even - maybe it was yours...

LAN-ED-TUL
12-29-2005, 02:49 AM
if anyone has recieved their diffusers from tim yet? i got mine and put it in and when i lit it up i see these spots all up and down the diffuser that look like from the inside of the diffuser someone has pushed into the sides with a small pointed object. kinda like tiny, and a few are bigger, stress/stretch spots. but when i felt the outside of the diffuser its smooth. it just looks like someone jabbed it all over with a ink pen leaving these lil stress/stretch marks. if anyone understands what i mean. i'd try a pic but i dont think it will show up. i'll try one and see, but im doubtful it will. but you can see them easily within a few feet of the blade when lit. further away, maybe not. just wondered if anyone else had this happen, or if by some stroke of bad luck, mine was an isolated occurance.

Strydur
12-29-2005, 08:41 AM
You dirty bastard!!! Just kidding...

The inside of the tube is dirty. I saw the same thing lastnight and just blew the tube out with air and poof the spots where gone.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

xwingband
12-29-2005, 08:55 AM
I checked out TAP plastics' site and now that I saw the rolls I think it may be mylar. I know it's thinner and certainly more common than acetate. The metallic sheen certainly matched it better. Acetate was just my first reaction to your description since I work with that stuff a lot more.

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GeluKhanGharr
12-29-2005, 02:02 PM
Forgive my ignorance - isn't mylar that very soft flexible, fabric like stuff? The kind they use for Jeep soft top windows?
Because the foil I use is more stiff than that.

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
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xwingband
12-29-2005, 03:02 PM
Not that I know of... The type of foil used to cover the writing on the Luke ANH clamp is adhesive backed mylar. The mirrored type is used for privacy mirrors (one way mirrors).

http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/products/images/thumb/standard/513_acetate-clear_thumb.jpg
http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/products/images/thumb/standard/514_mylar_clear_thumb.jpg
http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/products/images/thumb/standard/516_mylar_mirror_thumb.jpg

Which do you think it looks more like? Top = clear acetate, Middle = clear mylar, and Bottom = mirrored mylar

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GeluKhanGharr
12-29-2005, 08:04 PM
I'd say the middle, but I'd try them all if I had them handy

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
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vadeblade
12-29-2005, 10:56 PM
Gel,
I went to Tap Plastics and purchased the middle one, clear mylar, before I saw your response. Tap has it for $2.50 / ft. for the .002 mil, 48" wide film. It certainly looks like the stuff in your auction. You say 7 feet to get the effect. That's gets expensive fast.

I have to finish my kids' lightsabers so I just purchased 10 feet of the 24" size, cost is $0.75 / ft. Their lightsaber blades are only 20" so it is perfect. I will let you everyone know how it turns out by Sunday.

-v

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade." http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

LAN-ED-TUL
12-30-2005, 01:53 AM
easy tim. i was jus trying to see if anyone else had the same thing. and i did the same thing you did. i run a cloth up through the tube all the way through. and then looked down it at a light. all debris gone. then tried it again. it still has those lil spots all over it showing up. so in my case, at least, its not crap inside the tube. i think its what you told me before. maybe some kinda machine mark/stress spots. for now i stuck corbins film back in it, cuz, those spots are annoying to me. and others see it right away and say they show up to them too.

Strydur
12-30-2005, 02:29 AM
I was kidding..

But seriously..do you have access to any spray air? running a rag through will leave behind enough material to do the same affect. Is there a spot near a tip that you can try cleaning I bet the spots will move.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

LAN-ED-TUL
12-30-2005, 03:20 AM
how about air in a can? ya know the stuff ya use to blow out computers with. would that work? i can try it and see if any are close to an end.

Darth Vengus
12-30-2005, 06:05 AM
<font face="Book Antiqua"><font size="2"><font color="red">And don't forget, if you put a clean diffuser in a dirty blade...well, you might want to clean the diffuser off also[:)]. That might be the problem- dust and debris cross-contamination[:0].


Vengus
</font id="red"></font id="size2"></font id="Book Antiqua">

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger, faster and far more deadly than before. Go and seek death, my Apprentice." - Vengus, Sith Lord

Strydur
12-30-2005, 08:26 AM
Ya, any compressed air should work.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

LAN-ED-TUL
12-30-2005, 05:25 PM
i'll give it a shot when i get a chance to get to town and buy a can of air. need one anyways to blow out the computers, its about that time again. i usually open them up once a month and blow out the dust bunnies, lol

Cyambin
01-06-2006, 07:36 PM
I have an idea. I thought about it with the diffuser but then figured it would only work with reflective film. Then I read this thread and now I'm confused. Here it is:
You work with a plastics company to make a diffuser that is tapered in a way so that it diffuses less towards the end of the blade/in the dim area. That way it becomes brighter in those areas and voila- you have an evenly lit LED blade. The only problems I see with this are 1-would this be cost effective, and 2-would different tapering be needed for different blade lengths. However I don't actually think this would be a better method, because in order to even out the light the opposite tapering would have to be done and the base of the blade would probably have to be dimmed too much.
I thought tapering the reflective film(so it is more reflective in dim areas) would even out the blade better because then it would make the dim spots brighter, but apparently using film can cause all sorts of weird lighting effects in the blade(brighter or dimmer core). Or maybe the opposite should be done, I don't understand how light reflection works. I mean xwingband, you were saying something about the mirror in the tip being domed?? I don't get it.

xwingband
01-06-2006, 08:41 PM
As you can see in the various pics with the dim spots it fades in the middle and returns in the end. Since we have to use a lens to take the LED's 140 degree spread to something that reflects down the tube we have the opposite effect. The light is getting focused inside of the tube instead of spreading outside. After that focal point it starts to fade. Theoretically we could get a lens that would make the light into a beam and it'd be somewhere in a very low degree range (or combine the 5 degree lens most use with the bottom lenses in the pic).

When you put a flat mirror in the tip it reflects the exact same degree and focal point of the lens giving the dim area in the middle. What I showed in that pic I posted was the curve needed to make the light even. If you made a slightly curved mirror in the tip it would spread the light out a little and reflect it back farther down the tube making the light more even.

http://interactivephysics.design-simulation.com/images/simulationimages/optics/lensshape.gif

The top is what the lens we use on the LED does. It converges the LED's light to terminate 5 degrees from the diameter of the lens. A reflective tip like the top picture would do what the bottom one does and spread it back to get the even look.

Wow, that was long. I hope it made sense too.[:p]

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LAN-ED-TUL
01-07-2006, 04:04 PM
hopefully Tim, Ultra, or Corbin will find the absolute best configuration for the tips and make them to sell. We all hope, im sure, it will be soon.

WeirdoTransvestite
01-19-2006, 10:00 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Strydur

Ya, any compressed air should work.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It might not be a good idea to use air fron an air compressor though, that's not entirely clean air. It has oil and water particles in it which could affect the blade. You can actually smell it in the air.

Those who see the light at the end of the tunnel, need to stop staring at the sun.

Nightwing
02-01-2006, 10:30 PM
While we're on the subject of LED blade length, what is a good length for a firm blade? I don't want in to flop around. Now, I heard some stuff about the EL blades, but those are a bit thinner. So can someone give me some estimates on the blade length/strength ratio?

Mur-Pa DiLos
02-02-2006, 06:29 AM
I'm using the straight 40" that Tim sold me and they work great for all the abuse I've put them through. The length looks downright intimidating and I like how when you clash with another person it gives way instead of chipping, cracking, or splintering, although I don't think driving my truck over these blades could even break them! With the thicker LED blades, I think it is more a preference rather than a necessity on what length to make the blade. About 40" is movie length though if that is what you are going for.[:D]

BenReilly
02-02-2006, 08:29 AM
This may sound like i'm trying to rig something but here goes....
Are the tips round inside? if so...Why couldn't you paint them or place something reflective like aluminum foil, or mirror tint or something to that effect in the end ...it would have the arch due to the spherical inners of the tip. There is also a "chrome" paint that i've seen in hobby shops and used on my R/C cars...when put on properly it looks like true chrome could this possibly work in the tip?

xwingband
02-02-2006, 08:33 AM
Been there and done that... thats what half of what this thread ended up being.[:D]

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Nightwing
02-02-2006, 12:25 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mur-Pa DiLos

I'm using the straight 40" that Tim sold me and they work great for all the abuse I've put them through. The length looks downright intimidating and I like how when you clash with another person it gives way instead of chipping, cracking, or splintering, although I don't think driving my truck over these blades could even break them! With the thicker LED blades, I think it is more a preference rather than a necessity on what length to make the blade. About 40" is movie length though if that is what you are going for.[:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Well, I don't want my blade to bend much at all. So about how much to they bend? Is it very noticeable?

Devilstar2k2
02-02-2006, 04:02 PM
They aren't flimsy if thats what you mean...

I've been swinging a 38" around for a few days, and theres barely any give to it at all. Although it IS flexible, it still stays very rigid while swinging, and clashing.

BTW, the 38" is a bit long for my taste, I'll be trimming it down to match the MRFX length.

Nightwing
02-02-2006, 04:44 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Devilstar2k2

They aren't flimsy if thats what you mean...

I've been swinging a 38" around for a few days, and theres barely any give to it at all. Although it IS flexible, it still stays very rigid while swinging, and clashing.

BTW, the 38" is a bit long for my taste, I'll be trimming it down to match the MRFX length.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Sweet!
Aren't the MRFX's only like 31''?

Devilstar2k2
02-02-2006, 04:53 PM
33ish? (with a few inches in the hilt still)

Nightwing
02-02-2006, 05:17 PM
Hmm. I may go with 36'' or so.

Devilstar2k2
02-02-2006, 06:25 PM
Yeah... I would have too, but Tim didn't have 36" listed when I bought mine, so I got the 38" to cut down.

Strydur
02-02-2006, 06:43 PM
Ya..I didnt notice until someone pointed it out..[;)]

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

Devilstar2k2
02-02-2006, 10:07 PM
Thats okay... I just assumed that you were out of stock. To match the MRFX, I may have to cut it down to about 35" inches (total) anyway. [B)][:p]

Strydur
02-02-2006, 11:50 PM
I cut them all down from 40"..if you want a size not listed just let me know in the notes section of your order. Remember this isnt fred meyers, you can custom order stuff[:)]

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

Devilstar2k2
02-03-2006, 03:14 AM
I'll remember that for next time. [:I]