Tesla Coil Lightsabers

[bodi]

I would like to share an engineering idea I have for real sabers. This is mostly speculative, although the science is pretty sound, and I have some experimental reasons to believe it could work, although there would be a great deal of research needed to actually bring it to reality. Anyway, it's rather interesting, if you're into lightsabers and all...

In the early 20th century, Serbian inventer Nikola Tesla did a great deal of work with electrical arc producing apparatus. Several of his lines of research led him to discover a means whereby an electrical arc may be given the characteristics of solidity and rigidity.

He found that the arcs would begin to take on these qualities as the frequency increased. We are talking about extremely high frequencies here. I'm sure the waveform is important, too. You can research this in Tesla's work, but there is not a great deal of info on this to be had, just a mention of the effect.

Another contribution made by Tesla to the idea is the concept of the rotating magnetic field. It utilize's the phase differential rotation principle.

My blade emitter design is as follows:

The inner electrode is surrounded by a circular outer electrode as illustrated. The lower orange portion represents the superconductor which is being utilized as a magnetic mirror. The outer brown ring represents the stator coils. An AC voltage is applied to the electrodes at the lower end of the Tesla Effect range, which in conjunction with the introduction of certain materials into the arc stream provides us with the 'Tesla Effect' plasmoid arc, or tesloid.

Here is a possible design:


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/metahuman/emiterbest.jpg


The AC we are applying has a phase relationship such that it confers rotation to the tesloid, at an extremely high rate of speed, so that a virtual field is created, as in the right portion of the figure. This 'field' would appear solid in appearance as well as effect, due to its extreme rate of spin.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/metahuman/emitter2.jpg

As the tesloid rotates, the magnetic field it creates is reflected from the superconductor underneath and the tesloid is repulsed in the opposite direction of the emitter. As the tesloid continues to expand, the AC is modified towards the higher end of the TE and power range, and the field repulsion in conjuction with this allows for the growth of the blade.

Please note - this is NOT a 'containment field'. It is merely the principle used to elongate the blade.

At full extension, the AC reaches its peak for power, speed and TE.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/metahuman/emitter3.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/metahuman/design1.jpg

I'll be posting a website in the not too distant future which will be devoted to my reseach with this principle and a more in depth explaination and discussion.

Enjoy!

[jedi tom]

sounds intresting though i didnt get a word of it. next time put it in simple form it a good idea.

[bodi]

http://www.abrownson.f2s.com/10183/small_sstc.htm

A very interesting tesla link.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/metahuman/3sec20Custom.jpg

[jedi tom]

have you built one of these things if so how

[xwingband]

Okay, now that you say what it is... there's a reason no one has done this. It's dangerous. The current offerings out there aren't actually going to hurt you if you hit someone with them. I don't think anyone is going to want to hold one of those devices either.

[bodi]

xwing,

I think you are confused.

1. This has nothing whatsoever to do with my replica design. This is just a theoretical construct.

2. The reason no one has done this (the design as shown above) is because this is the first time I have posted the idea, as well as the fact that there is some technology needed that has yet to be developed.

3. The link and the picture are of simply of a solid state tesla coil, not my lightsaber design, which is just theory at this point. Tesla coils are neat, but I wouldn't want to hold one either. Luckily, my design and tesla coils are two different things, although tesla coils give a starting place.

4. Of course lightsabers are dangerous. If your going to screw around with trying to make a real one, you can't avoid danger.

5. As far as my design goes, the destructive potential is not reliant on massive current, but rather on the properties of the arc.


Bodi

[Firebird21]

This is the most interesting version of this topic so far...



Imagine the possibilities with this type of setup... I'm not talking about as a "Real" Lightsaber, but for a "Damn close one".


Disclaimer: I am not an expert in electronics by any stretch of the imagination!


It is my understanding that the “Sparks” or “Plasma”, whatever it is, that you see in that pic is not dangerous for human contact. This is because the frequency needed to do that is so high that the electrons don’t pass through the skin and therefore, can not damage your nerviest system.
(There’s a demonstration at The Boston Science Museum with one of these suckers with a lot more power and the guy puts his hands right into the plasma and gives that explanation as to why he’s still alive)

Add’l information can be found here. (http://www.mos.org/sln/toe/)



So if you can create a controlled effect like this that would simulate a real blade, then it could conceivably be used to make what appears to be a real lightsaber blade. The only problem is that it does little to no harm to anyone. It may blow up your electronic equipment if you get too close.


It also makes the Hum, you can get it to extend and retract, it just doesn’t come in any color by blue, and it would not likely have any solid mass. Unless this guy’s research is correct and it can be modified to have mass. The question then would be, ‘would the frequency be so high that it couldn’t do any damage to anything?’



If this arc could be elongated and formed into a 36” straight line, There’s your Lightsaber! …with a power cord!


Edit:
Here's some pics of that show I'm talking about and the Van de Graaff Generator they use (not for the part I mentioned earlier, although he touches lightning there too...)
http://www.mos.org/sln/toe/touch3.jpeghttp://www.mos.org/sln/toe/bigtesla.gif

http://www.mos.org/sln/toe/moving/domesjoined.jpeg

[bodi]

It is my understanding that the “Sparks” or “Plasma”, whatever it is, that you see in that pic is not dangerous for human contact.

Correct to a point. The arc seen in the pic would not cut anything, and the frequency is high enough to produce a 'skin' effect and probably (although not necessarily) would not be very dangerous. (Once again, that pic is just a garden variety tesla coil).

What makes my design work is the fact that if we could jack the frequency up high enough (we can't yet), and find the right waveform, and such, the blade would have a kinetic aspect, and basically act like a tough, solid thread of matter rotating at super high speeds, and rather that burning, would shear through objects like a vibrating blade.

Depending on which materials are introduced into the arc stream, and the frequency, it is entirely possible, I believe, to have different colors as well, but thats also just theory.

Bodi

[Firebird21]

My take on the whole thing is:

1. This may never be a practical "Real Lightsaber", but it has theoretical potential.

2.It would make a really cool TOY or Novelty! (not intended for children) But you'd likely have to plug it in. And if you did get a battery to power it, I'd give it less than 5 sec. at full charge.



But boy would it be cool! :twisted:

[bodi]

http://www.extremeelectronics.co.uk/

Heres a link to a guy who does some research on colored arcs with tesla coils...

[bodi]

The power source for our lightsaber will be a small nuclear power cell.

The nature of this cell should allow to derive the power required in a package small enough to meet our size criteria. At the moment, I am focusing on betavoltaic cells such as those in the works from Betavoltaics Industries, Inc. as the most suitable. These cells are still in the R&D stage, but almost certainly illustrate the way to go for our project. The basis for Betavoltaic's technology is a clean, safe version of stimulated nuclear-decay technology based on the theoretical research of Dr. Ruggero Santilli and the experimental research of Ted Gagnon. The betavoltaic cells use an isotope of potassium (K40) as the energy source.

Betavoltaic: (Beta) meaning beta-electron, the high-energy electron ejected during the decay of a neutron into a proton. (Voltaic) meaning roughly an electrical voltage producing device.

"A kilogram of K40 has roughly the same energy content as 35,000 gallons of gasoline."

http://www.americanantigravity.com/betavoltaic.html

[Firebird21]

I don't think I'm going to hold my breath on the Nucliear Duracell... :wink:



You're talking about something that would revolutionize the modern world... It would eliminate the Gas engine, make power plants all but usless (just buy more bateries for the house!)... Not likely to happen any time soon. I'd like it to... :D


I think that if you could get the ark in this video to at least a foot long, you'd have many people here drooling. Even if you had to plug it in to a 220 amp service :lol:

Lightsaber Buck knife (http://www.abrownson.f2s.com/public/SSTC3.wmv) :wink:

[bodi]

Typically, in a normal arc, apx. 1000V (1KV) is needed to produce an arc of 1 mm in length. Since our tesloid is apx. 1400 to 1600 mm in length (to produce a 70 to 80 cm blade) this would mean we need a voltage of between 1400 to 1600 KV or 1.4 to 1.6 MV (million volts) if it were a normal arc.

Various factors, however, such as frequency, for example, reduce the voltage needed, and I estimate our tesloid of the required length will need between 70 to 75 KV.

[bodi]

and this is all just mental masturbation at this point! lol

[Firebird21]

Typically, in a normal arc, apx. 1000V (1KV) is needed to produce an arc of 1 mm in length. Since our tesloid is apx. 1400 to 1600 mm in length (to produce a 70 to 80 cm blade) this would mean we need a voltage of between 1400 to 1600 KV or 1.4 to 1.6 MV (million volts) if it were a normal arc.

Various factors, however, such as frequency, for example, reduce the voltage needed, and I estimate our tesloid of the required length will need between 70 to 75 KV.


1.6 million volts needed x 1.5 volts in a AA=

Thumb, Pointer, Middle.... Carry the little piggy... Damn! I need more fingers!



That's whole lot of Bunnies!




and this is all just mental masturbation at this point! lol


That's a little bit more information than I needed... :?



Edit: I'd suggest changing this Topic Title to something like "Tesla Coil Lightsaber" to distinguish it from the other 6 "Real Lightsaber" Topics.

[jedi tom]

even if it is possible and i does work there would be know way to get you hands on one unless you made it and its highly unlikly you could even get
enough power in one battery sized thing that would fit in the hilt.dont get me wrong im all for it but i thinck its more likely that ill sprout wings and fly to the moon than this working actually its more likely the idea would work but there both kewl though ok i got off the point and lost my way. but its unlikly.

[Firebird21]

even if it is possible and i does work there would be know way to get you hands on one unless you made it and its highly unlikly you could even get
enough power in one battery sized thing that would fit in the hilt.dont get me wrong im all for it but i thinck its more likely that ill sprout wings and fly to the moon than this working actually its more likely the idea would work but there both kewl though ok i got off the point and lost my way. but its unlikly.



That's pretty obvious...

This is all and always just dreaming up ideas. If it was possible to do this would be a "Look what I made!!!!!" Topic, not "This would be cool!" one.

I think that the little gadget he posted is the closest thing I've seen yet to a "Real Lightsaber"! And if that tech can be developed from there to make even just that arc long enough for a saber, and that's all that's accomplished, that would be awesome!

[jedi tom]

does anyone else have an idea to make real lightsaber apsrt from this on even if its one that may never work it would still be interesting

[Firebird21]

does anyone else have an idea to make real lightsaber apsrt from this on even if its one that may never work it would still be interesting



Here's one... I don't feel like searching for the others right now.

http://thecustomsabershop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1082

[Enolmano]

http://thecustomsabershop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=978&highlight=

Scroll down to my post for another theory... (with bad grammar...)

[987654321a]

smells like fried fingers to me :lol:

[elrond.406]

Soo...manny...BIG...words!... :? :oops: :( :cry:

[vadeblade]

The power source for our lightsaber will be a small nuclear power cell... I am focusing on betavoltaic cells ... (Beta) meaning beta-electron...

My wife's, friend's, sister's boyfriend told me he read about that. The casing is machined out of unobtainium. It helps contain the radiation and disperse heat the best. He also told me it is rechargeable, but you need to hook it up to a flux capacitor to charge it.

"1.21 jigawatts? 1.21 jigawatts? Great Scott!" Dr. E. Brown.

Seriously though, a Betavoltaics battery is real, and the idea has been around for over 50 years. Look it up in Wikipedia. Wiki compared the function and capability of a Betavoltaics system to a SOLAR CELL. In other words low voltage and low current. Currently a portable sized one would not even light one of our beloved Lux III lightsabers.

[Firebird21]

My wife's, friend's, sister's boyfriend told me he read about that. The casing is machined out of unobtainium. It helps contain the radiation and disperse heat the best. He also told me it is rechargeable, but you need to hook it up to a flux capacitor to charge it.




I love it! I had to read it twice just to make sure I was reading it correctly.

[bodi]

Sure. It's all speculative at this point. I just picked Betavoltaics because sooner or later it will be something like that that enables us to pursue things like this. Technology is progressing at a tremendous rate. BV sounded good, because there's at least potential there...



These cells are still in the R&D stage

[JediHilt]

I hate to sound like a conspiricy nut but we probably have had the technology for making lightsabers for years maybe even years and years. We have had technology the average person is not allowed to know about for instance have you ever heard of an ion engine and how it's this new just recently developed technology that is going to take us to Mars right? wrong, my Grandfather worked on one of those engines 50 years ago! so if they had the engine working 50 years ago and we don't hear about untill now guess what technology we have now and won't hear about for another 50 years! Here let me scare you a little bit you were talking about this new battery technology betavoltaics I think there called we have had the technology that would provide more than enough voltage
to power a lightsaber and be small enough to fit inside of a hilt as far back as WW1. You know how they have been working on this whole hydrogen thing for cars now for about 20 years and still don't have it totally worked out I found patents for carburators that date as far back as 1911 that produced a stable hydrogen gas for cars and here we are 2007 96 years later and were still using petroleum it took nearly 100 years for hydrogen to reach the public eye what else do we have that won't see the light of day for a 100 years?

[vortextwist]

flux capacitor


I love it! I had to read it twice just to make sure I was reading it correctly.

:lol: LMAO, I almost fell out of the chair. :lol:

[vadeblade]

I hate to sound like a conspiricy nut.. Here let me scare you a little bit you were talking about this new battery technology betavoltaics I think there called we have had the technology that would provide more than enough voltage to power a lightsaber and be small enough to fit inside of a hilt as far back as WW1

Ohh Hell! Here I go ranting again. Warning: LOOOOONG!

Yes the idea has been around for betavoltaics for over 50 years. But that does not mean that the thing existed in a practical, usable form.

The betavoltaics being researched today is 10 times more efficient than the betavoltaics used less than 10 years ago. And even with such significant improvement, the best application they can come up with for it is for powering low energy items like pace makers and smoke detectors. Or for real life consumer products like cell phones, the best it can do is to TRICKLE charge a standard Li-Ion battery so the phone does not die as fast.

"But it's NUCLEAR," you say. But not like bomb, or solar, or reactor. It's decay of fairly harmless isotopes (like tritium in glowing watches). The problem a few decades ago was that only Electrons that hit the collector plate got coverted to usable energy, but radioactive gas shoots electrons in every direction. Recently someone had the great idea to use Semiconductor Manufactoring technology to etch grooves in the collector and stick the isotope in the grooves. Now the electrons that shoot out is more easily captured. See, not conspiracy, just waiting for techology to provide the way.

And conspiracy of keeping technology from us? The idea of it may be new to this forum but that does not mean it was secret. I just means we have not heard of it before until Bodi was kind enough to introduce it. betavoltaics is not a secret. Info on it is all over the internet. And before the internet I am quite sure you can get info on it from any university library. At the very least there should be a few thesis papers on the subject.

IMO The world is not driven by conspirators and clandestine operations, it is driven by Money. Any technology will sit on a shelf no matter how good it is until someone figures out how to cash in on it.

So is it strong enough now to power a "real" lightsaber? NO. But it is useful enough to trickle charge our NiMH battery so our Luxeon III can stay lit longer.

ohh and I tend to be skeptical when the cited sources are an "Anti-Gravity" technology website and Betavoltaics Industries, Inc. removed all mention of their betavoltaics research from their website. And descriptions of Betavoltaics Industries's technology sounds like "cold fusion".

Here are my internet sources for what I stated. I did the research so you don't have to. Consider this a public service.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betavoltaics
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-betavoltaics.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7843868/ ...YeahMSNBC
http://www.azom.com/news.asp?newsID=3084

This one is my favorite
http://www.phact.org/e/z/betavoltaic.htm
The critics of the above belong to a "Free Energy" group. So they really want the technology to exist, but even they had a hard time swallowing Betavoltaics Industries's claims.

[LordArgyll]

The power source for our lightsaber will be a small nuclear power cell.

Okay, but... how are you gonna fit the steam turbine in the hilt???

[james3]

Vadeblade, thanks for putting all that together. Very well posted.

[JediHilt]

actually they have thermo nuclear power plants about the size of big watch batteries they are used in certain pacemakers.

and Vade Blade your confusing the set of technology we have with what the government has what I'm saying is betavoltaics the government had worked 50 years ago ours the civilian technology is just now starting to work.

[vadeblade]

actually they have thermo nuclear power plants about the size of big watch batteries they are used in certain pacemakers.

and Vade Blade your confusing the set of technology we have with what the government has what I'm saying is betavoltaics the government had worked 50 years ago ours the civilian technology is just now starting to work.

No, what I'm really saying is if people are going to state something as fact, please provide the source so i too can look at it and read it for myself and draw my own conclusion.

What I expect from people when I say something like "Purple Elephants Really exist" is for someone to say, "where's your proof." to which I would respond "Go here: http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/58958ubDA_w.jpg."

So when you say the government has a battery sized megawatt powerplant that they made in WW1. I say, "show me."

and the thermonuclear powerplant commnent was a joke right? hard to tell. I say this with NO intention to offend. But go to Google.com and type "define:THERMONUCLEAR" and you will get the result

"relating to or using nuclear reactions (for example fusion) that occur only at very high temperatures."

I can not speak for others but I would rather have the heart attack then have a thermonuclear device planted in my chest.

[JediHilt]

No No Blade it's not a fusion or turbine device havn't you ever seen one of these http://www.dts-generator.com/

[vadeblade]

It says "Thin Film Thermoelectric Generator Systems GmbH". Not thermo nuclear. Big differnce.

[JediHilt]

It uses a small piece of nuclear material to provide the heat I wana say it was u235 uranium but can't remember exactly.

[xwingband]

Those in the link are the opposite of peltiers. Instead of consuming voltage to make a temperature difference they are taking the temperature difference to make the voltage.

Low power for sure...

Also I too found most of the links vadeblade found. Anything stating voltage outputs didn't seem to come close to what would be needed for his idea much less in the size to be held in your hand.

My first thought though... why can't the same ideas used to elevate the voltage and frequency to light neon sign be used?

Still think it's and utter crack dream though...

[LordArgyll]

It uses a small piece of nuclear material to provide the heat I wana say it was u235 uranium but can't remember exactly.

Note that it says "low power thermoelectric generator." That's a far cry from a thermonuclear reactor, which converts the extreme temperature from radiation into steam-power which is in turn used to spin a turbine to create electricity.

The amount of radiation you'd probably need to create the necessary voltage/current with a thermoelectric generator would probably cook you.

[JediHilt]

Dude Pacemakers use to run on watch batteries.

[LordArgyll]

But a watch battery won't power a tesla coil. :lol:

[vadeblade]

Dude Pacemakers use to run on watch batteries.

Great for people with pacemakers, but totally not relevant for what this forum is about. We need High voltage and high current.

[Firebird21]

I thought that Val Kilmer's chicky friend there figured out the whole Cold Fusion thingy...




Any technology will sit on a shelf no matter how good it is until someone figures out how to cash in on it.



Funny story... (well not really)

The guy that invented FM radio killed himself because the guy that hired him to develop "Something better than AM" said that

not enough people had AM radios yet.
So it sat on a shelf for about 20-30somewhat years... Until everyone and had an AM radio. Then FM was introduced, and everyone's AM radio was no obsolete.

Inventor guy couldn't take it... :cry:


As for proof of this story...

I'm still looking.

I heard it on Glenn Beck.

[vadeblade]

Here you go. from Wiki:


However, the FM radio which threatened to destroy the AM radio proved to be too revolutionary for the RCA (Radio Corporation of America), Armstrong's then employer. RCA began to lobby for a change in the law or FCC regulations that would prevent the FM radios from becoming dominant.

By June of 1945, the RCA had pushed the FCC hard on the allocation of electromagnetic frequencies for the fledgling television industry. Although they denied wrongdoing, David Sarnoff and RCA managed to get the FCC to move the FM radio spectrum from (42 to 50 MHz), to (88 to 108 MHz), while getting new television channels allocated in the 40-megahertz range.

This single FCC action rendered all Armstrong-era FM sets useless overnight, and protected RCA's AM-radio stronghold. Armstrong's radio network did not survive the frequency shift up into the high frequencies; most experts believe that FM technology was set back decades by the FCC decision. This change was strongly supported by AT&T, because loss of FM relaying stations forced radio stations to buy wired links from AT&T.

Furthermore, RCA also claimed invention of FM radio and won its own patent on the technology. A patent fight between RCA and Armstrong ensued. RCA's momentous victory in the courts left Armstrong unable to claim royalties on any FM radios sold in the United States. The undermining of Yankee Network and Patent Court battle brought ruin to Armstrong, by then, almost penniless and emotionally distraught. His near obsession with radio and total involvement in the patent fight also destroyed his marriage, apparently one of the few close personal relationships Armstrong ever developed.

Alone and driven to despair over the FM debacle, Armstrong jumped to his death from the thirteenth floor window of his New York City flat on 31 January 1954. His widow Marion, who had been Sarnoff's secretary before marrying Armstrong, renewed the patent fight against RCA and finally prevailed in 1967. It took decades following Armstrong's death for FM radio to meet and surpass the saturation of the AM band, and longer still for FM radio to become profitable for broadcasters. However, Armstrong's invention, and his genius, were ultimately proven in the marketplace by today's broad acceptance of the FM band.

[Firebird21]

Cool, the Wiki page I found didn't seem to have anything reguarding that. Then I got sidetracked.

Thanks!

[JediHilt]

Oh I see you guys are confusing the talk about the pacemakers with the talk about power cells.

[LordArgyll]

Oh I see you guys are confusing the talk about the pacemakers with the talk about power cells.

Well, to be fair you were the one talking about thermonuclear power plants the size of watch batteries. :lol: I guess that evolved from the talk about using betavoltaic cells to power proto-lightsabers. Or something.

...

...What were we talking about?

[bodi]

Tesla invented both AM and FM radio...

just a note...

no, it wasn't Marconi on either count...