Looking for some Soldering Tips and Help??

[Thousandlegends]

Hello all

I would ask please read all this post before you guys reply it will help with any misunderstandings or confusion on everyones part and sorry I do tend to be long winded I will try and bullet point if I can.

All my questions are for soldering of saber related hobby type stuff

> So I have been having some issues with soldering have done plenty of it to be honest, but have not had very good results as of late.

(side Note)
I am looking to upgrade my soldering gun I have a basic 20.00 Weller 40 watt currently and am looking to upgrade to a temp control model but I really only have 50.00 bucks so not much out there.

-- Anyhow on to the actual topic and questions... --
> Now I am just a dangerous hobbyist beginner compared to all you trained circuit monkeys out there when it comes to soldering and have no real world experience to base my information on here... What I'm hoping is that you guys can help correct anything that needs be and set me straight and tell me where to hit the ball running.

> Lately I have been having trouble with my solder beading up and just dropping off and I know two things about soldering one (1) its not supposed to do that and two (2) I shouldn't have to spread my solder like I'm buttering a loaf of bread with a stick.

A few hints I found already on the inter webs and correct me of wrong...
(1) The Tip - the tip can be a big problem for a couple reasons
- Getting too hot - if the tip is getting too hot it will oxidize the solder and the tip thus making it impossible to make a good connection
- Tinning - I have always done this someone told me to do it and I well just have... it has only been recent that I actually knew what it was called, anyhow you want to tin the tip pif the iron so that heat control is better and you get a good solder.
- A bad soldering tip - Tips can wear out so replace them when need be. Also heat can destroy a tip over time, especially if its too hot all the time.

> So based on these two tips above and I mean two because the 3rd doesn't apply because I clean my tip and its shiny and new looking, I would assume my iron is getting too hot for the solder. Even when I do clean the tip and manage to get it to tin properly and mean Properly! because most of the time it just beads up on the clean tip as well. I still can't seem to get a good clean solder joint lately with the iron and the solder on the tip turns black very quickly.
> I have gotten some pretty strong joints but most of these have ended up being pretty sloppy

Next part

(2) Clean area - if the contact or wire or metal that you are soldering is not clean the solder may not stick

> I am able to tin bare freshly stripped wires pretty daily but it still sometimes causes a buttering effect, I like that "buttering", no but wha tI mean is having to spread the solder around the new clean joint or wire.

(3) Wrong Solder - Again having the right solder is definitely important having the incorrect type will work against you.
- Rosen Core - I have been reading this everywhere and if you are anyone who is anyone doing soldering then you want rosen core.
- Lead free or lead based - I have heard both are acceptable for circuit wiring and such, I myself refuse to use lead based and will only use lead-free solder

(4) Silver, copper, tin??? - Say What okay here is the big one and I have heard nobody say what kind of makeup the solder should be whether it should or should not contain silver in it, I have seen copper tin mixes, but what type of solder should you use???
> I have found no definitive answer for this to be honest and would love your guys opinions on it
> what do you guys use?
> What is a cost effective type of solder for a hobbyist that doesn't want to spend 40.00 to 50.00 on solder??

>> Anyhow I think I mentioned I am looking at a new solving thingy was looking at the weller temp controlled one for 50.00 but would also like to hear your guys opinions and suggestions on soldering guns/units/irons??
>> Again what would you suggest for someone not wanting to spend a whole lot but do a good job soldering??

Thanks guys in advance and please, please correct me or elaborate on any points made here that may be off a bit or incorrect like I said I know enough to be dangerous, but have no actual technical skills in soldering, but I plan on learning from all you.

Hopefully myself and others can learn allot from you veteran solder monkeys out there.


~ edit ~
I found these solders out there

this was recommended to me but I don't use that much solder and I don't want to spend that much if I don't have to... I found all these on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VPRYX0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

This is a Tin/Copper mix
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009YKISMY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

This is a tin/silver/copper mix
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IHA4XFS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_1&smid=A3B1C91C90853P

this is a tin/silver mix
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007KN0FD2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[Madcow]

Same thing happened to me, I switched to a different solder (same kind - rosen core) and the tip cleaned up. Then I went back to the old solder periodically - fine. I think I hit a length of my solder with no rosen in the core.

You can also try some flux paste.

[Thousandlegends]

Same thing happened to me, I switched to a different solder (same kind - rosen core) and the tip cleaned up. Then I went back to the old solder periodically - fine. I think I hit a length of my solder with no rosen in the core.

You can also try some flux paste.

Okay yea I have some flux paste, though it doesn't seem to be helping all that much... I think it may be the solder :|

~ Edit ~
So i have been reading further and it seems that my Iron may be getting too hot for this type of soldering... I guess if your solder is smoking and your getting a lot burring and smoking, then its too hot so I may need a new iron sooner rather than later.

[Silver Serpent]

I personally use a 60/40 (lead and tin) rosin core solder, 0.32 diameter. The lead-free solders tend to need a higher temp to melt, and they don't necessarily flow as well as a leaded solder.

Don't use a soldering GUN for delicate electronics. Irons are the way to go. Weller is an excellent brand, though you may have fried the tip by now. Luckily, their tips are nearly always replaceable.

When I'm tinning a brand new tip, i wrap the tip with a coil of solder and then turn the iron on. Once the solder melts, I wipe off the excess with a brass sponge.

Speaking of sponges, if you're still using the regular sponge, be sure it's WET. Dry sponges suck. Using a brass sponge works amazingly well at cleaning a tip, and can often restore a badly oxidized tip with a little effort. You can find those fairly inexpensively on Amazon. I grabbed a Hakko brand brass sponge, and I'll never go back to the wet sponge again.

Wipe the tip often. Especially if you have the brass sponge. Wipe after every solder joint. It keeps the oxidation down, and oxidation is what kills heat transfer and screws up your work.

[Thousandlegends]

Thanks a lot I really appreciate it

-- I have been reading that my iron may be too hot for circuit board work being a constant full on 40 watt iron, what do you think? Do you have any solder would you recommendations for a lead-free as I know you said you use the 60/40 lead/tin?

I m using a non-adjustable 20.00 something weller 40 watt iron an older version of this one its about 8 years old now
http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP40NKUS-Watt-Soldering-Black/dp/B00B3SG7F0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1442540332&sr=8-3&keywords=weller+soldering+iron

i will look into replacing the tip I it looks fine but it can't hurt being that they are cheap!


I will look into the brass sponge thing I've heard of that... I do wet my sponge quite a lot as it drys out quickly where I live.

Thanks for the tip on coiling the solder I will try that as well... First I think I need to get some new solder and a tip before I try anything else.

[Silver Serpent]

Hrm. That one goes up to 900F? Yeah, that's a good deal hotter than I typically go. I've got the WES51 solder station, and I keep mine around 600-650. The highest I've taken it was about 700F, and that was just to solder on a LEDEngin pad. Unless you have a rheostat handy (or can build one), I don't know how you'd limit the temperature on your iron.

As far as recommendations on solder go, I've found that thinner diameter solder tends to be easier to work with. It melts faster, easier, and doesn't glob up all over the place. Thick solder is good for other projects, like jewelry or stained glass.

[JD8a27]

I got this in the mail yesterday http://www.amazon.com/Lead-Free-Soldering-Station-Welding-Digital/dp/B00QJR0HM4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1442589141&sr=8-4&keywords=936+soldering+station It's affordable and it came with extra tips. I can't wait to test it.

[Scarecrow]

This seems to be a low cost adjustable temperature esd safe soldering station with good reviews and a wide variety of tips available. It comes in a deluxe model with a brass sponge and a few extras, as well. http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Variable-Soldering-Station-Removable/dp/B00MCVCHJM/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1442598197&sr=1-2&keywords=aoyue+digital+soldering+station

Kester 44 60/40 .031" rosin core solder is what I used in the Army and use now. Don't get bogged down in the different types of solder. Avoid lead free. It's difficult to work with.

Erv from Plecterlabs suggests a soldering iron temperature of 360C/680F for his boards. It's a good starting point. The size of the tip may require more/less heat. A finer point has less thermal mass and may require more heat or recovery time to get back up to temp. The led star can take higher temps since it's on a heatsink.

When you're soldering you shouldn't have to spread it. Heat your work with the tip of the iron and then apply the solder to the material (wire/pad) and not directly to the tip of the iron. Make sure everything is held in place to avoid your work moving which will result in a cold solder joint.

You don't need flux paste if you're using rosin core solder. Flux needs to be cleaned and isn't necessary for these boards. Hope this helps.

[Thousandlegends]

Hrm. That one goes up to 900F? Yeah, that's a good deal hotter than I typically go. I've got the WES51 solder station, and I keep mine around 600-650. The highest I've taken it was about 700F, and that was just to solder on a LEDEngin pad. Unless you have a rheostat handy (or can build one), I don't know how you'd limit the temperature on your iron.

As far as recommendations on solder go, I've found that thinner diameter solder tends to be easier to work with. It melts faster, easier, and doesn't glob up all over the place. Thick solder is good for other projects, like jewelry or stained glass.

Thanks yea... I will have to do something about the iron I think its getting way too hot, I've read a lot of forums and that is the general consensus that if your solder balls up and oxidizes right away then I am using the wrong kind of solder with the wrong kind of iron.
And thanks I am going to look at getting some smaller diameter solder mine is like 1mm or 1.2 which i definitely feel is too thick am look at .031 stuff now. :)



I got this in the mail yesterday http://www.amazon.com/Lead-Free-Soldering-Station-Welding-Digital/dp/B00QJR0HM4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1442589141&sr=8-4&keywords=936+soldering+station It's affordable and it came with extra tips. I can't wait to test it.

Please let me know how it works for you?



This seems to be a low cost adjustable temperature esd safe soldering station with good reviews and a wide variety of tips available. It comes in a deluxe model with a brass sponge and a few extras, as well. http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Variable-Soldering-Station-Removable/dp/B00MCVCHJM/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1442598197&sr=1-2&keywords=aoyue+digital+soldering+station

I will look into that unit more... my question is how easy is it to get replacement tips for this thing? Because I found some these system are priced very well but I can never find the tips for a decent price.



Kester 44 60/40 .031" rosin core solder is what I used in the Army and use now. Don't get bogged down in the different types of solder. Avoid lead free. It's difficult to work with.

Thanks yea I have been looking into that and I guess I always thought lead free was better for the monkey using it, at this point it seems they possess about the same health hazards because of the rosen flux core.



Erv from Plecterlabs suggests a soldering iron temperature of 360C/680F for his boards. It's a good starting point. The size of the tip may require more/less heat. A finer point has less thermal mass and may require more heat or recovery time to get back up to temp. The led star can take higher temps since it's on a heatsink.

When you're soldering you shouldn't have to spread it. Heat your work with the tip of the iron and then apply the solder to the material (wire/pad) and not directly to the tip of the iron. Make sure everything is held in place to avoid your work moving which will result in a cold solder joint.

You don't need flux paste if you're using rosin core solder. Flux needs to be cleaned and isn't necessary for these boards. Hope this helps.

Thanks I rally appreciate the help a lot... I do agree I need a new iron and my solder is not very good... so I will start there I guess
I was actually using this for some jewelry applications before and decided why get another iron when I have one... I have solder a bunch with it but it is very frustrating as the results vary every time I use it.


> Thanks so far everyone, all your help has been great so far... If anyone else has something to add then please do I am learning a lot here and find this most informing, thanks :)

[darth_chasm]

I will look into that unit more... my question is how easy is it to get replacement tips for this thing? Because I found some these system are priced very well but I can never find the tips for a decent price.

I can vouch for this one as it's the one I use. One drawback is that the temperature setting is not based on actual temperature but rather on a 1-8 scale. I keep mine between 6 and 7. These tips (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J045ZVQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00) will work with this unit and I have found they are much better than the one that comes stock.

[Thousandlegends]

I can vouch for this one as it's the one I use. One drawback is that the temperature setting is not based on actual temperature but rather on a 1-8 scale. I keep mine between 6 and 7. These tips (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J045ZVQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00) will work with this unit and I have found they are much better than the one that comes stock.

Ok kool thanks I appreciate it...

What sort of tips would you recommend? I was looking at the .8 tips for small wires and boards..
These ones here
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008J810DQ/ref=pd_luc_rh_bxgy_01_04_t_img_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

Ideally, the long narrow tips would be the best for you.

[Thousandlegends]

Alright so I ordered the new soldering iron should get here on tuesday so we'll see how that goes. ;)

[Thousandlegends]

So I ordered some spools of wire from amazon and... It's not copper I am use to using copper is this a big deal or is there an issue with current or even breakage of the wire being that it is't copper?

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

Specifically, what kind of wire do you have.

[Thousandlegends]

I went back and it says tinned copper wire? It is stranded and its 28 AWG wire in 25 foot spools
I bought a bunch from the river because I was buying a bunch of stuff from them anyways, I probably would have just bought it here on TCSS, but you guys are out of the 28 and I am running out of it as well.

this stuff right here...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N51OU0W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00

[Forgetful Jedi Knight]

I have no idea what they mean by tinned copper. 28 AWG copper strand is good for our purposes. I guess you'll have to try it and find out.

[Thousandlegends]

I have no idea what they mean by tinned copper. 28 AWG copper strand is good for our purposes. I guess you'll have to try it and find out.


Yea me neither I missed that part... Thing is I will return it if its not going to work


~ edit ~
Also I have noticed that the coating on the wire is very thick the wire with coating is about a 1/16th inch


this is what one guy says on the interwebs

Benefits of tinned wire

Tin is a useful plating for copper because it not only helps to boost copper’s properties, it also helps the wire to last much longer than it would normally. In fact, a 12 gauge tin coated copper wire can last up to ten times longer than a similar 12 gauge bare copper wire.

As tin resists corrosion and doesn’t oxidize the plating helps to protect the copper underneath. This wards off additional wear and tear that would detract years off the life of a bare copper cable. This is especially so in instances where the operating temperatures of the wire exceed 100 degrees Celsius. At higher temperatures, the corrosion resistance of copper declines, making a tin coating valuable for protecting the wire in this state. It is also highly desirable for any marine electronics, and tinned copper is infamous for its uses in marine technologies.

Tinned wires are also desirable for soldering as they make connections and soldering an easy task given tin is a primary component in solder. Tin also helps to strengthen the copper wire underneath, making it more resilient to breakage or lost connections while also boosting coppers conductivity.

So while tinned copper wire is more expensive than bare copper wire, it is often considered to be a much more prudent expenditure in the long run. Given that simple tin plating can drastically increase the life of copper, as well as ensure its effectiveness in high humidity areas, it pays for itself with strong performance and a lot less maintenance.

[Thousandlegends]

Alright so tried out the new iron and it solders brilliantly! :)

Thanks guys for the suggestions on iron... I am using the 60/40 leaded solder right now but it melts the tin/copper tuff really easy as well, its just mine is too large a coil diameter for this sort of work.

I am running the iron between 1.5 and 2 on the setting dial which seems to melt the solder pretty good without too much smoking, there is a little bit which I understand is the flux burning off in solder.

I got this little guy as recommendation by scarecrow and darth_chasm...
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Variable-Soldering-Station-Removable/dp/B00MCVCHJM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443286909&sr=8-1&keywords=aoyue+soldering

I did a little research and felt pretty safe about this one... I will tell you more of my experience later when I mess with some more stuff...

I am messing around with the lathe and will probably wire my old MR vader board up to use in it my test sabers, so we'll see how that goes.

I will post a review of the aoyue later if you guys want it.

Cheers ;)

[rlobrecht]

Did you get the Aoyue 469? I'm looking for a new iron, and $90 for a Weller or Hakko is a little out of the budget right now.

[Drawcut]

I have a Aoyue 469 that I bought after using a basic 25 watt non adjustable iron for some other projects. I've only recently started using the Aoyue on a few simple parts but I can definitely say that it is light years better than the simple non adjustable soldering irons. I feel much more confident tackling the NB connections now.

[rlobrecht]

I have a Aoyue 469 that I bought after using a basic 25 watt non adjustable iron for some other projects. I've only recently started using the Aoyue on a few simple parts but I can definitely say that it is light years better than the simple non adjustable soldering irons. I feel much more confident tackling the NB connections now.

Thank you.

[Drawcut]

Thank you.

Just to follow up again: I got my saber wired up with a Nano B. and everything worked on the first try!. The Aoyue 469 worked great. I did some practice joints on an old network card which helped me dial things in.

[rlobrecht]

I ordered the 469 from Amazon, and it came yesterday (gotta love Prime shipping). I soldered a few wire splices and the PLI, and it seems to work great. Waiting for my NB to come in the mail.

[TwinMill]

Anyone have experience with this iron:
http://www.amazon.com/Lead-Free-Soldering-Station-Welding-Digital/dp/B00QJR0HM4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1442589141&sr=8-4&keywords=936+soldering+station ?

It doesn't look too expensive, and supposedly the lcd display shows actual temp.

I'm thinking of getting it since my current 15+ year old non-adjustable POS iron just doesn't seem up to the task of fine detail (electronic) soldering.
It still has the original tip and at this point, I have no idea if replacements are even available any more.
I have an old roll of 63/37 .050" diameter rosin core solder I plan on using. (radio shack cat # 64-015)
Spec sheet I found online says it melts at 183 C (361.4 F)

[Scarecrow]

I can't say I'd recommend that iron. The only positive thing about it would be the readout but I honestly wouldn't trust it. People here have had good luck with the Aoyue 469 and it's really inexpensive. Also, how old is that solder? If it's 15 years old like your iron, I'd throw it out and buy a new roll. Solder has a shelf life of 3-5 years.

[TwinMill]

Luckily the solder is significantly newer than the iron, although I think I've seen smaller diameter solder recommended on these forums.
If the 469 is so well regarded here, I just might have to give it a try. :)