The Tri-Lux is here.

[acerocket]

Hope Corbin doesn't mind me linking to this pic, but:
http://server3.uploadit.org/files/corbinspics9-TRILUX.JPG

This is a CNC machined unit that uses three 3 watt (and eventually, three K2 or combination of K2 and 3 watt) emitters to provide RGB color capability or that extra intense single color. I will post some further info when I get a chance.

[Ryma Mara]

Looks nice, any idea about as to how hot the thing gets? average compared to a regular led setup?

how bigs the heat sink?

What kinda volts is required to run a RGB?

Looks like something that could be pritty pricy.

How well does it work with the available sound boards?

[xwingband]

God, your full of questions.

I've been talking with Acerocket and Corbin about the setup.

The whole setup as pictured there is 1.25" and I believe 2" long. Very small for what it is.

for the volts... ideally it needs like 14V, but he's been burning out Corbin's board with that much. He's thinking of 11.4V li-ions for it. Not at full power but still butt kicking. It's 3 Lux III's afterall... think about that. You can amp up like a 9W White out of it.

Price... yeah, not cheap. The non-corbin one he's been using was $100+ for just the drivers, but that one was more specialized for the RGB setup. He used some different PWM drivers and dimmers.

I'm not sure it will work well with sound at all. That's a lot of volts. Even with Erv making his handle it better I think he said 10V or so was the limit. :shock:

Trust me people, this will rock when it's available.

[Dregan]

Why couldn't you use three dimmable bucks with pots? This one (http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=863&link_str=240::241&partno=3021DE1000) I mean. $20 each, but you wouldn't ever burn it out...

You'd be dialing in color pretty much in analog tho...

[xwingband]

You could... he was trying to get even more brightness by using a PWM driver and dimmer.

You might burn out a Buckpuck if you tried running three 3W's... I don't know their max. You'd need 3 buckpucks though to make the RGB work seperately.

Again, this setup won't be cheap by any stretch.

[james3]

Yeah, like xwing I have been sitting on this planning sabers to do with this setup.

But for the penny pinchers, this probably is not for y'all.

[acerocket]

I won't bore you with all the minute details of this project, but as Corbin said, it's been over a year in planning, development, and machining. The RGB idea was born out of frustration over not being able to get a decent looking purple. The logical idea to put three of the same color leds came from the Great Hyperdyne Wars of 2006. The whole project would not have happened without the finding of the ultra small optics you can see in the pic (yes, the 3 hex shaped things are the lenses).


Some specs:
1.25" od x 2" long.

The unit is comprised of 13 seperate pieces:
machined heatsink (finned)
three emitters
three lenses
machined polycarbonate 'protection' disc
machined top flange
three M3 x 25mm screws

The heatsink and lense holder combine to add to the total surface area of the ubnit. There is roughly 27 square inches of surface area alone on these two pieces.

Currently, I only have an epoxy jig for 3 watt emitters, but I plan on machining one for K2 emitters and possibly even combinations (two K2 + one 3 watt, and two 3 watt + 1 K2) to allow customization.

RGB setup: The current design uses 3 watt red, green and blue emitters. I can do alternate setups if a person wants more color options in a particular range. Suppose you want a better variety of purples, then I can do a red, blue and royal blue, or red and a couple of blues. If you want a better yellow/orange selection, then a red, and two greens might be in order. Same with blues, I could do a green, blue and royal blue. There can be many different configurations to suit the individual user depending on what they want. It is possible to use Corbin's driver, but you would need three of them and dimming circuits. I am currently using very compact 1000 ma and 1400 ma pwm drivers (no effects) and pwm dimming circuits (sourced from Germany). Power wise, you can run the RGB setup with as little as 7.2V, but you need a lot of amps since the unit uses around 2.4 amps total when running pwm and all three LEDs maxed. I plan on using six 14500 1000 ma cells for a total of 7.2V 3000 ma - and it will fit inside a 1.25" diameter bore and be about 4 inches long.

3 same setup: The current setup is with three Bin 1 cyan emitters. These will run with Corbin's driver, but so far I have had some troubles burning out the driver when running with 14.4V. Corbin has talked to the driver maker and it looks like the power in to the driver needs to be around 12V. Ideally, you need 11-13V (for blues and greens) and 8-9V (for reds and amber) to run plus figure an extra volt for the driver. I have been running with 12V and so far it looks good, but I haven't gotten a decent number of hours on it to tell yet. The other issue with the 3 same setup is heat. YES - IT DOES GET HOT! Running at full power, you can heat the unit to 250 degrees F in about 15 minutes. A fan really helps and looks like it can keep the temperature to a manageable 150-160 degrees. For this setup, you could go with six 14500 1000 ma cells for a total of 10.8V 2000 ma, but the unit will not run at it brightest (but it would still whip a single LED anyday). I am still working out the best battery solution for this setup. I am leaning towards 20 AAA rechargeable cells giving 12V 2000 ma that would fit inside a 1.25" diameter bore and be about 5.25 inches long.

Right now, I have some blanks cut but with my regular job being so hectic, I am not sure when exactly I will get the first run completed. Likewise, I haven't fixed a price just yet.

A few questions have been asked so far so let's see.

No they will not fit inside a 1.25" sink pipe. The unit itself is 1.25" od and there is just no room to make it any smaller. This is due to the footprint the three optics needing to be 1.17 inches.

I don't know about all of the MHS stuff, but the two pieces I have will not accept the Tri-Lux unit. Perhaps down the road, there may be a section that can accomidate it, but you will have to discuss the matter with TCSS or Ultra.

For now, I will leave it at just discussing the unit. I have pics of the exploded unit but would rather nor post them at this time.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

(above as posted on theforce.net)

Now for questions here:

With three same color it gets very hot. Not so hot with the RGB since nott all three emitters are full blast all the time (unless you go white).

Heat sink is 1.25" od x 1" long, lense holder is 1.25" diameter by about .4" tall. Combined, the two have a surface area about 27 square inches.

RGB needs only about 7 volts.

No price yet, but I will have one soon.

Don't know about sound boards, I guess it would be the same if you can control the amount of power reaching the board from the battery pack.

You could use the Buck pucks if you want. But they don't make a 1400 ma unit for the red,red-orange, and amber LEDs yet. Three buck pucks with wiring and pot would still be in the range of 75 dollars though.

Penny pinchers definitely will be disappointed on this one.

Oh, and here is a link to a video showing the color changing capability: http://www.orbitalmachining.com/assets/multimedia/cblade.mpg

[Dregan]

Now the real question - Can ayou or Erv make it work with the Buttered Toast?

[JediMcD]

Ace and Corbin that looks great. Very nice design. You all keep coming up with more and more stuff for me to spend my money on. If you keep turning out products like this and I keep building sabers with them my wife is going to say the dreaded S word - - - sell. I am thinking 3 3watt greens. Forget the color change. I want the brightest saber on the block. :lol:

Keep up the great work. I think you have got a winner on your hands with this.

[Firebird21]

...I want the brightest saber on the block. :lol: ...


That shouldn't be too hard...

You probably have the only saber on the block...

:mrgreen:

[Corbin_Das]

Hi guys.
Hey Ace, I think that it might be a good idea to perhaps not "advertise" in Strydur's forum out of repect for him. I don't mind you linking to the picture I did, but we probably should have asked Tim about posting this here first.

Corbin

[Dregan]

Maybe he'll pick it up as a product... then no problems...

Just thinkin...

[acerocket]

I must offer my appoligies to Tim over this impropriety. I had not thought this topic would be interpreted as a 'for sale' thread. I posted the topic for information purposes only but I think it may have come off the wrong way entirely. I have already sent Tim an email and asked him to delete this thread if he wants to. I also ask that until this matter is resolved, that you please refrain from posting anything further in this thread. I will not be discussing this project here further until I have had a chance to exchange emails with Tim and take care of this error on my part.

[Ryma Mara]

Sorry I never ment my comment of "might be a bit pricy" to sound like a how much is this gonna cost question.

I ment to say something like "damn thats got to be made of gold or something".

Well good day and good luck

[elrond.406]

I’ve seen something like this before. I think it was from illumisabers.com. Yea.

[xwingband]

the Chameleon made by Gelu is only a 3W (3 1W's in a single LED). This is 3 3W's... big difference.

[Lord Maul]

^^^ what he said
with this each color is 3 times as bright as Gelu's. so if you have all three on you have a 9 watter while with Gelu's it is only a 3 watter :wink:

[vortextwist]

any news on this bad boy yet?

[xwingband]

Ace and Crorbin update more on the TFN boards. There really isn't more to say. Ace is still working prototypes. I gets very hot and he's looking into how to optimize the cooling.

[vortextwist]

ahh, pardon my blankness but what is tfn?

[xwingband]

ahh, pardon my blankness but what is tfn?

theforce.net , the forums are in the top ten largest of the internet. A direct link to there would be boards.theforce.net

[elrond.406]

ahh, pardon my blankness but what is tfn?

:shock: How can you not know tfn :?: :!: :?: :o

[Ryma Mara]

cause not all the ppl of the world dont live on the internet.

[xwingband]

cause not all the ppl of the world dont live on the internet.

Well most would define posting here which is an MUCH smaller place as living on the internet...

Really bad double negative there too.

[987654321a]

the main place that i post is here, other sites like fxsabers.com, i have posted in the past but they arent as exciting as here.

[elrond.406]

the main place that i post is here, other sites like fxsabers.com, i have posted in the past but they arent as exciting as here.

:arrow: true/false

[987654321a]

its true, elrond, the other sites are boring maybe TFN might be a little okkkk. but i still love TCSS and im going to stick to it.

[LAN-ED-TUL]

TFN is a great place to get info. STT is too, but im no longer on that board. i'd say STT and TFN and here, are the best places for info,.

[Lord Maul]

pardon my stupidity but what is STT?

[LAN-ED-TUL]

SITH TRAINING TEMPLE

[Ryma Mara]

Such a shame they only care about vader.

[LAN-ED-TUL]

theres more there than just vader. all sith types are there. at least it was before i got thrown off.

[Ryma Mara]

Well I read there intro thingy and they only deal with vader. and women vader.

[Lord Maul]

theres more there than just vader. all sith types are there. at least it was before i got thrown off.

may i ask why :D

[LAN-ED-TUL]

there was other stuff like maul and EU sith stuff there.

and i wont say anything more on why i got thrown off, but it had to do with a misunderstanding with a moderator.

that moderator and i have patched things up since then, but im not gonna try to get back on, cuz i dont think they would let me anyways.

no more said.

[DACOTA]

Well I am excited very much,even though I might not get one[but I do want one] I still love tcss.IMO the best site ever,and I gotta say this as a complement,you guys who know just about everything about saber electronics make it hard to keep up. :D

[Novastar]

Anyone know of any word on the Tri-Lux?

I'd be curious to see if Tim, Corbin (and maybe even Erik???) had any updates...

[Strydur]

We are working on it..All I can say at the moment.

[Kyp Durron]

Hmmm...very interesting. It would be awesome if this could be made to work in a Graflex. 8)

Looks like I will have to keep an eye on this thread. :wink:

-Kyp

[xwingband]

Hmmm...very interesting. It would be awesome if this could be made to work in a Graflex. 8)

Looks like I will have to keep an eye on this thread. :wink:

-Kyp

It fits in a 1.25" tube... that's smaller than a graflex. :wink:

[Corbin_Das]

The current Tri-Lux is exactly 1.25", which makes it a TAD too large around to fit into a 1.25" sink tube, but it's really close. That's just with the sink tube though.


Corbin

[Kyp Durron]

So it should still work in a Graflex, right?

-Kyp

[Corbin_Das]

My Tri-Lux isn't in my posession right now, so I can't say for sure, but I think it will fit the Graflex OK.

[Kyp Durron]

Good to know, thanks! 8)

-Kyp

[acerocket]

Yes, the Tri-Lux will fit inside a Graflex diameter wise. The Tri-Lux is 1.25" od and the Graflex has something like a 1.42" id (I am going from memory so I am not 100 percent sure on the exact ID of the Graflex). But at 2" long, and coupled with the fact that you will need a blade mount, fan and batteries, it might be a tight fit lengthwise. But I think if you use something like 18500 Li-ion, you can do it.

[vortextwist]

do they make fans that small?

[xwingband]

Yeah, they use them in laptops and stuff.

It's definately possible with 18500's. 8 of them would do... it'd fit lengthwise. Not very great run time but oh well. The Tri-lux would EAT batteries!

[Novastar]

I'm curious as to what Tim, Erik and Joe think the newer LEDs will contribute to the Tri-Lux...

In other words, if new LEDs are released, and carry a great amount of lumens... but not such a high forward voltage... do you think this will help play into the equation of not having to run the sucker off of SO many darn batteries?

As it is, I can only imagine the hilt lengths having to be at least 12" or more.

Anyhow... just keeping in the loop. Keep up the great work!

[Dregan]

I actually prefer a hilt of about 12" to 14", mostly because I come from a traditional ken-do background. I have relatively broad shoulders, and it just feels more natural to me when I fall back into a Hari no Dachi stance...

[Corbin_Das]

Hi all
The new LEDs continue to provide us with ever broadening options as to what we can do with them. But "always in motion is the future" so it's hard to say what will happen. The DORK side clouds everything. :D


Corbin

[Novastar]

lol Corbin! Hey, I'm telling Dorkman... ;)

Dregan... I completely understand what you mean, my saber (Flange) for Balance of Power Ep I is like 13 or 14" long... makes for good "lever/fulcrum" power, as you probably know from Kendo...

...BUT... doesn't make it that great for all the twirling and spins that are sort of "par for the course" when you're wanting to wow an audience.

So... I already have a "long" saber with sound and all that... now I'm looking to make a smaller one.

Granted, I'm fine with whatever Lux Triad I can ever get my hands upon!

[Novastar]

UPDATES please!!

I'm dyin' to know before C4 what Erik & Corb have in store...

Besides, BOP II is getting busy now and I'll be too busy to check in with things in a few days... :D

Man, I've REALLY become addicted to all this saber nonsense!! arg.... d'ahhh!!!! unnngggh!!!!!

MUST.

.................... SEEK.

................................ COUNSELING.

.
.
.
.
JEDI COUNCIL, HERE I COME, hahahahahah

[Ryma Mara]

Yeah. Im wondering the same myself.

BTW could someone possably give me the spacal dimentions of what it takes for a trilux with sound?

Iam tryign to get an idea for a persional saber and kinda hard to get a design when you hca no idea what the dimentions your ognna be working with are.

[Novastar]

This is just a guess Ryma, so don't quote me, but it should make sense...

Since the Tri-Lux will require A LOT of juice (read: batteries)... you'll need quite a bit of space to run it WITHOUT sound. Not to mention a much larger heatsink than normal, hopefully with complicated fins and all that.

Then you have the fan. I SUPPOSE you do one without the fan--but that might endanger your LEDs. Who knows right now. Still... plan on a fan. :)

THEN you are thinking to implement sound. WHich means a speaker. Ouch. Right now, I don't know of any sound board that is capable of over 9v coming in. Hyperdyne's? I've never tried it, but it is supposed to by up to 12v??? I don't know. Or you split the battery power correctly with a relay or whatever... it's getting complex... well... to fit in a 10" to 12" hilt!!!!!!

THEN you are probably looking to drive the light separate from sound. Two drivers (probably).

1" room for wires overall (not much!)
2" blade holder
3" heatsink + LED & optics
3" room for some kind of driver board for Tri-Lux
3" room for batteries. I am guessing 12+ volts, Li-Ion in a triad if you're LUCKY. (3.6 x 3 = 10.8, effective 12v most of the cycle time)
1" room for wires in there
2" room for sound board (barely enough if that)
2" room for speaker
1" room for button 1 AND recharge!!
Forget resonance--you better hope you have it...!!

I see about 18" in a Tri-Lux-with-sound's future.

Then again, you might get creative, and build a really thick (big OD like 1.75") saber hilt and be able to "stack" items. In fact, you MAY be able to stack a switch over a recharge port OVER a board inside there. Or who knows, maybe you won't need TWO boards if one can do it all.

Still--you'd save about 3" to 4" that way, leaving you a hilt about 15" long.

That's pretty big. Not to mention $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

My latest Flange v3 is 10.5" and it's pretty bright for now.

[acerocket]

The Tri-Lux itself is 1.25" diameter and 2" long (and this includes a .125" deep bore at the optics end for the blade to index in). That covers the ring that holds it together, the polycarbonate 'protection' disc, the lense holder, and the heatsink. I haven't gotten to far into playing with fans yet, but most that I have seen are about .5"-.75" thick. Depending on what your hilt diameter is will dictate the size of your battery pack. To run a single color Tri-Lux, you will need a 9V (Sith colored) to 10.5V (Jedi colored) power pack at the minimum. Best bet is to just use a triple li-ion setup. You will be looking at 2"-2.75" long battery pack. If you go direct drive, you can probably get it as short as 7" for a no frills saber (figuring a 2" blade length in the blade holder). Add sound, driver, or whatever and your saber gets longer. If you are careful and not limited to a very narrow saber (like a 1.3" od saber hilt) you might be able to get everything inside a 12-14" saber.

I hope to have an update about the future of the Tri-Lux shortly so please bare with me while I sort the last few details out.

[Dregan]

lol Corbin! Hey, I'm telling Dorkman... ;)

Dregan... I completely understand what you mean, my saber (Flange) for Balance of Power Ep I is like 13 or 14" long... makes for good "lever/fulcrum" power, as you probably know from Kendo...

...BUT... doesn't make it that great for all the twirling and spins that are sort of "par for the course" when you're wanting to wow an audience.

So... I already have a "long" saber with sound and all that... now I'm looking to make a smaller one.


I'm working on a smaller saber 'for the spousal unit' that will be balanced more line an escrima stick - and I'll be able to move and twirl it just as fast. Since it's about speed, not power, I'll use a thin-walled blade, and that will make a big difference in the functional weight. I'm also making the pommel as short as I can, and mounting the switch in the pommel, to pucsh the center of balance as far back along the hilt as possible.

Oh, and get this. It's going to be true purple, not white with a filter.

[Dregan]

Hey Ace, with the advent of the Luxeon Rebel, any plans to thin the whole thing down? I still haven't actually seen the optic you're using, so I'm completely talking out of my a$$, but I'm just curious.

(Please see my other posts where I wax poetic of my newfound love of the Lux Rebel...)

[Ryma Mara]

well thats out of the question. guess a rgb led is for me then.

[Novastar]

I don't know about out-of-the-question... as LED innovation occurs (pretty much every 6 months), more and more solutions will present themselves in differing ways to begin setting up all sorts of configurations...

Only a matter of time.

[Ryma Mara]

no its jus that the saber needs to be about 9.5-10" total length which leaves me with well just enought room for led/heatsink, switch/pot setup, board stacked on batteries. and speaker.

I would rather not use li-ion batteries.

[Novastar]

So.

Im.... patient....


Must.


Seek.


COUNSELING! :)

[acerocket]

Some questions have been asked about using a Luxeon Rebel with the tri-lux. After meeting Novastar this weekend at C4 and showing him the two prototype setups, I decided to see what could be done. I went back and checked my optic supplier and found out that the optic for the I, III, IV, K2, and Rebel are all the same. The difference is the holder. So the optic holding section of the tri-lux will work for a rebel with some minor changes. Namely, the height of the section will need to be changed in order to give the proper substrate to top of optic distance (13.8mm for the I, III, V, and K2 - 11.35mm for the Rebel. The big problem comes from the way the Rebel is designed. It is classified as a SMD (surface mount device) and has anode and cathode pads on the bottom of the LED for attachment to a PCB board. This makes it darn near impossible to just epoxy or tape down and use. You would need a special PCB made that has the Rebel already soldered on to it. Read the Luxeon application brief and they give detailed explanations and descriptions of making a PCB and reflow soldering a Rebel to it. Not something easily done by a novice. But as luck would have it, I have found a place that makes a PCB board with Rebel pre-mounted. It's a gold plated fiberglass PCB roughly .4" x .4". Not sure if this would fit inside the tri-lux unit but I will find out eventually (because the Rebel is an off center unit and I would need to physically measure the PCB first). The only trouble is they have a limited choice on color/lumen availability. But their site hints at custom LED options so I am going to email them and see if they can get alternate Rebels mounted to these boards. Price is a bit more (about 5 Euro each plus VAT and shipping from Europe). I will pass on more info when I find out.

[xwingband]

Seriously let us know. I was thinking of an idea to mount a Rebel, but as normal an already mounted solution would be great. I was looking at a candle power forum post and they used epoxy and a donut shaped plate... I was thinking of having Tim lathe down a custom heatsink to the stem so that I could epoxy it to that.

If you need to buy more to get a good price I'd be happy to pitch in. :D

[Dregan]

Ace - when I was playing with my rebels a few weeks ago, I skipped the PCB and soldered directly onto the pads on the back, and then brushed a layer of silicone over that area. The rest of the back pad hits my heatsink and is slathered in thermal epoxy, so there's still a good thermal transfer.

I looked that the German guys putting them on those square pads, but between the added cost and the size, it wasn't what I needed. If you order some, I might be interested in getting a few at the same time to play around with, though. Let me know.

[acerocket]

Unfortunately I can't solder directly to the bottom the way the tri-lux is set up. I thought about a wire channel or something but the design gets pretty complicated if you do that. It is far cheaper to just buy the 4 dollar PCB (I am guessing price here) and just epoxy it down as opposed to a special machined piece. I am going to email them later and see what they say and try to get some samples. They don't sell the boards seperately and I doubt they would be a DIY part anyways because of the way they are soldered on. But I will check thatpossibility out also.

[acerocket]

Did a little more digging on the website and yes they do do custom assemblies on some of their products. I sent them an email and should hear back soon. I may go ahead and order a few samples to play with. Once they become available, I am thinking of the 145 lumen green Rebel in a tri-lux. Man, how bright would 435 lumens be?

[vortextwist]

that would be heavenly. well maybe awsome

[Novastar]

Hi all... man the drive back from C4 was a bear... SOOOO tired!

Anyhow, yeah it was great to meet Ace finally... Corbin as well. I think it's worth looking into the Rebel solution for two reasons:

1. Hey, they call them "Rebels", hahahah
2. Better lumen ratings and lower voltage requirements overall--especially for an RGB.

Hope to hear the findings on this more as time progresses. Great stuff, Ace!

[Hasid Lafre]

Weel the fact that there tiny as heck I think many can be used Iam sure if you set it up like a flood and use a single focusing lense or a refractor of some kind.

[Strydur]

The rebel size is great. They just need to come out with optics to match the small size. Or better yet some small optics designed to use 3 or more of them.

[acerocket]

Yes, it would be great if they came out with a smaller optic, but I suspect the 13mm hex is about as small as we are going to see. I have seen 9mm round optics for the Luxeon camera flash, but they will only work with the flash and nothing else. Once I get a sample of the Rebel, I may look into phyically machining the optic smaller to see if that will work by I have my doubts. I think I could get a little more off and possibly get a tri-lux down to fit inside a 1.25" sink tube or maybe even smaller. But it would be a very specialized piece. At the very least, I may try and futz with the existing tri-lux design to see if I can get it a smaller diameter. I would love to get it down to a 1" diamter unit.

[Hasid Lafre]

I just wish they would come out with high current reds and ambers already.

[987654321a]

a red 3w, is considered a 5w. it is significantly brighter than any other color.

[Novastar]

Countdown is basically correct... in fact, I am now RUING the day that the following terms became interchangeable somehow:

Luxeon I ... 1-watt...
Luxeon III ... 3-watt...
Luxeon V... 5-watt...

This is not the case, as Ace will (and has) pointed out on the TF.N thread. When you do the math, a Luxeon III "red" or "red-orange" can certainly produce 5 watts (heat energy) given the right way to drive it and via the right battery setup.

The same can be found about K2s.

Ultimately, you simply want to focus on giving your LED the CURRENT it wants (or maybe a bit more) in order for it to be "at its best" brightness.

That means paying attention to its "max continuous current":

K2 Green = 1500ma max cont. curr.
Lux III red(ish) = 1540ma max cont. curr.

This doesn't mean that they are "brighter" than a Lux V:

Lux V Bl,Gr,Wht, etc. = 700ma

...but they could be if you were driving the Lux V "incorrectly"! Or vice-versa.

Ultimately, you (hope to) feed the LED the current it wants. How do you do that without a driver? You really can't. You will at least need a puck, a Corbin board, Erv's or Alex's.

The MR board doesn't quite spit out 1A (more like 0.8A as far as I've seen), so you're good if you're running an LED that is "looking" for... 700ma?? Even a 1000ma LED would be ok... but a 1540ma LED might not be so good to throw in an MR...

...but who cares if your eyes can barely tell the difference. :)

[xwingband]

Did a little more digging on the website and yes they do do custom assemblies on some of their products. I sent them an email and should hear back soon. I may go ahead and order a few samples to play with. Once they become available, I am thinking of the 145 lumen green Rebel in a tri-lux. Man, how bright would 435 lumens be?

The 145 is for 700mA too I believe. :shock: I wanna max it ... to the extreme!

[Hasid Lafre]

and I wasent talking about the 3w's.

[acerocket]

I just ordered a few of the PCB mounted rebels and will post a pic or two when they get here.

Xwing. Yeah, 145 lumens at 700 mA. Run that at 1000 mA and you might get about 200 lumens (if the lumen/current curve is a straight line fit). 600 lumens in a saber would be a wonder to see. I was mentioning it to my wife and can't believe she said 'won't that be too bright?' Too bright - are you kidding!

Oh, and I heard back from the company. They only use the brightest available LED for their products. They will use the higher lumen Rebels when they become available. They have amber and orange Rebels in stock but not as PCB mounted. I am waiting to hear back if they will be offering these as well as the cyan and blue which they don't have listed for either style. Could be they just don't have those in stock yet.

[acerocket]

Well I heard back about the PCB mounted Rebels. They only carry them in white, red, green and royal blue right now. They have no plans on doing blue, cyan, amber, or orange unless someone places an order for them. Trouble is, an order is 250 pieces minimum. At 5 euro each that adds up to over 1700 bucks USD per color. Unfortunately, I am not that rich. They said if someone does place an order they will do extra and have a limited quantity on hand but not to hold my breath for them. I will look into seeing if I can make a Rebel work without a PCB but I have no idea.

[Marsupial]

can they sell blank PCBs and rebels to solder as a kit?

[acerocket]

Don't know. I will email and ask. From what I get by reading the datasheet for the Rebel is that they are not as simple as the I,III,V or K2 to mount. With the I,III,V, and K2, the LED itself is epoxied down and the anode and cathode soldered to exposed solder pads. But the Rebel must be epoxied down and it makes contact through the base of the LED to (unexposed at the point of contact) solder pads. I read about the reflow soldering and am not quite sure it can be done in an uncontrolled environment (like on top of my washing maching/workbench). Again, i will ask - couldn't hurt.

[DACOTA]

So I want to know whats the point of the tri-lux? I mean do they have leds that are just as bright as the tri would be with 3 of the same color.I dont know I'm just curious.

[supertrogdor]

one word dacota: Variety

[xwingband]

The Tri-lus exists because current RGB systems suck for what we want. They're usually meant for architectural lighting where being 3" in diameter isn't a deal breaker.

Not to mention the effects. Color changing is a given... but I think many will drool should Erv ever go on with trying to make a board that controls all three.

[acerocket]

So I want to know whats the point of the tri-lux? I mean do they have leds that are just as bright as the tri would be with 3 of the same color.I dont know I'm just curious.

The tri-lux idea was originally conceived as an RGB unit (red green blue) to allow for a near endless choice of color. By decreasing/increasing the amperage to each seperate LED through a potentiometer (it's not that simple but just for explanation's sake) you can create almost any color you like. For example, if I had three on/off switches on the side of my saber, I could have red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, purple, or white by just turning the different switches on or off. No LED changing, just turning on and off the LEDs in the tri-lux. I could change the color of my saber in less than a second. The RGB is not an all out brightness unit, rather it is a way to create a variety of colors from a single LED setup. They do make an RGB LED, but it is rated at 3x1 watt for a total of 3 watts of total power output (and only about 80 lumens). The tri-lux runs on three seperate 3 watt LEDs (or K2 or Maybe even the Rebel) for a total of 3x3 watts (about 240 lumens total output). For a single color, I think a green Lux V is the brightest at 160 lumens. But a tri-lux with 3 green Lux III would have 240 lumens. You will pay for this output though in the heat generated by three LEDs and the shortened battery life. But there are some people who care about brightness and not so much runtime. If the 145 lumen rebel becomes available, you could conceivably have nearly 600 lumens of light from a single unit. That's far more than any single LED can produce right now. And, depending on how you run the tri-lux, you could even get 600 lumens from a simple 3.7V power pack (assuming direct drive each LED seperately from 3 seperate cells). Plus, the whole unit is only 1.25" diameter and 2" long. Easily small enough to fit inside of most hilts.

[Hasid Lafre]

Iam cureious as to if a rgb trilux setup would require a shorter hilt than a 3 1 color setup would need.

[acerocket]

The tri-lux is identical irregardless of what LED is used (I, III, V or K2 - the Rebel version would probably be about .1" shorter). The main difference would be how much hilt you need to house the batteries and electronic drivers. The simplest way to go would be three li-ion cells each direct diring a single LED. You could conceivably get away with a 6-7" hilt. Likewise, a simple RGB with no pots (only on/off capability for 7 color choices) would be about the same length. Adding drivers and electronics will make the hilt longer. I have a rough rgb setup with constant current pwm drivers (1000 mA for the green and blue and 1500 for the red) with three seperate pwm capable dimmer circuits. With a triple cell setup, you could probably fit the whole thing in a 10-11" hilt. Granted, there would be no effects like the Corbin driver or Erv's Crystal Focus and no sound. One thing that I keep forgetting to mention is that the tri-lux does get hot so a fan is good insurance. A nice 5V fan can be had that is only 1" round and .5" thick and should help.

[Novastar]

Bloody 'ell I wish Ace wasn't leaving CA soon.

ARG x 3 (LEDs). hehehe

Man, if only I had the right capital to do the Ns5 board. I am *POSITIVE* we'd seriously blow the roof off of light/sound driving in general...

[neophyl]

Ace you can do simple reflow soldering for smt components using cheap 'toaster' ovens.

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm

This article is fairly good but im sure you could find lots with a search.

[acerocket]

Thanks for the link. This seems like something that might be doable for the DIY crowd afterall. I just need to see if I can get blank PCBs fromthem.

[xwingband]

Hey, the first good thing to come out of my toaster oven besides pizza. :D

Thoughts now... doesn't the Cree LED that all the flashlight people get their panties in a twist over have to be reflow soldered? If we could find blank stars or PCB's made for those it might work.

If that company is willing to supply the PCB's then it's all cool, but find blank cree stars and that'll at least satisfy us looking for single LED use.


For once I need to get off my butt and do research for what I want... off to query the internets for me. :D

[acerocket]

I heard back from the people about the Rebel PCB. Yes, you can get them without the Rebel attached, but you have to buy a rather large quantity to get them. Once I get the sample Rebels on PCB, I will post some pics and info about them for those who might be interested.

[Hasid Lafre]

Iam cureious as to if you make the mount/heatsink out of maybe a better heat dissapating metal you might be abel to take some length off.

or is alumy better at conducting heat?

[DACOTA]

So I want to know whats the point of the tri-lux? I mean do they have leds that are just as bright as the tri would be with 3 of the same color.I dont know I'm just curious.

The tri-lux idea was originally conceived as an RGB unit (red green blue) to allow for a near endless choice of color. By decreasing/increasing the amperage to each seperate LED through a potentiometer (it's not that simple but just for explanation's sake) you can create almost any color you like. For example, if I had three on/off switches on the side of my saber, I could have red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, purple, or white by just turning the different switches on or off. No LED changing, just turning on and off the LEDs in the tri-lux. I could change the color of my saber in less than a second. The RGB is not an all out brightness unit, rather it is a way to create a variety of colors from a single LED setup. They do make an RGB LED, but it is rated at 3x1 watt for a total of 3 watts of total power output (and only about 80 lumens). The tri-lux runs on three seperate 3 watt LEDs (or K2 or Maybe even the Rebel) for a total of 3x3 watts (about 240 lumens total output). For a single color, I think a green Lux V is the brightest at 160 lumens. But a tri-lux with 3 green Lux III would have 240 lumens. You will pay for this output though in the heat generated by three LEDs and the shortened battery life. But there are some people who care about brightness and not so much runtime. If the 145 lumen rebel becomes available, you could conceivably have nearly 600 lumens of light from a single unit. That's far more than any single LED can produce right now. And, depending on how you run the tri-lux, you could even get 600 lumens from a simple 3.7V power pack (assuming direct drive each LED seperately from 3 seperate cells). Plus, the whole unit is only 1.25" diameter and 2" long. Easily small enough to fit inside of most hilts.

I knew there was a reason for it,I thought it was just that all the leds come on at once but what you said makes sence. :D

[acerocket]

Iam cureious as to if you make the mount/heatsink out of maybe a better heat dissapating metal you might be abel to take some length off.

or is alumy better at conducting heat?

Copper would be better, but the price of the raw material and the extra time needed to machine it would be a killer. You see a lot of copper heatsinks in high end computers. The trick to making a good heatsink is to have a ton of surface area. It's not how much heat a heatsink can absorb, but how much it can give off to the surrounding air. I have given thought to adding a few more fins to the tri-lux by making the existing fins thinner, but then you run the risk of breaking off a fin if you are not careful. With a copper heatsink, I could make the fins thinner because they would tend to bend a bit before breaking (but they could still break off if you were not careful). Another thought I am entertaining is anodizing the heatsink. It is a know fact that an anodized aluminum heatsink will perfom a little better than an unanodized one. I have a home anodizing setup, but I have it all packed up for my upcoming move so I can't experiment with it just yet. In asking about shortening the heatsink, I don't know if you would want to. The heatsink itself is only 1" long right now. I don't have one of Tim's in front of me but it's a little shorter (maybe 3/4"). The other 1" of the tri-lux is the optics (about 9/16"), the 1/16" polycsarbonate 'protection' disc, and the top ring (about 3/8" tall, but the blade goes into it 1/8"). compared to a standard TCSS setup, it's not much longer by the time you take a TCSS heatsink and add a star LED and optic.

[Hasid Lafre]

Humm I thought it was about 2" from reading a previous topic.

I see. I did not know that anodizing helps keep things cool.

What is anodizing exactly?

[acerocket]

The heatsink portion of the tri-lux is only 1" long. The entire unit is 2" long (the entire unit consisting of the heatsink, optic holder section, polycarbonate disc, and top ring which bolt together).

Anodizing is a process whereby an aluminum oxide coating is 'grown' on the surface of the aluminum part. In essence, you are rusting the aluminum part. But unlike steel, once this coating is 'grown', the aluminum will not oxidize any further unless the coating is scratched or removed. Under magnification, this coating looks like a honeycomb sturcture and this honeycomb can be died various colors. I believe Tim has some anodized holders on his site. Not sure why anodized aluminum is a better heatsink, but my theory is that the honeycomb increases the surface area of the part. Yes, it is only a microscopically thin layer, but the honeycomb structure will really cause an increase in surface area.

I am working at getting some info about the tri-lux up on my website (with some pictures, videos and information about the unit). Perhaps once I get it up, things will make more sense.

[Hasid Lafre]

Intresting, intresting indeed.

[acerocket]

http://orbitalmachining.com/assets/images/100_0686.jpg

Man, are these things small. By the way, that is five rebels. I am beginning to think soldering the rebels to the circuit might be a bit tricky. Anyways, I just got these this evening so I will post a review after I power one up later this week.

[Novastar]

Very cool Erik!

At least they take SLIGHTLY less fwd v each....

Let's hope that makes a difference that really counts.

[DACOTA]

Man those things are small,so you guys are working on how we could start using these things in sabers,mounting and such?

[Dregan]

Ace, can you put up ap picture of the backs of those pads?

The only thing I've built using the Rebels so far myself is a prototype for a LED taillight conversion, but I think that some of those design elements can be adapted to work on sabers. I'm working on a stable process. I'm going on vacation so it'll be a while before I have anything concrete, though.

[acerocket]

Here you go. A view of the bottom.

http://orbitalmachining.com/assets/images/100_0705.jpg

Not much there, just a gold plated base with holes in it. The literature I read on the website says the holes help with heat transfer.

[Ari-Jaq Xulden]

has any body thought of running the lux 3w driver from tim, and the crystal focus core from erv together for a Trilux setup from ace? two lights on the Lux driver and 1 light (preferably red) and sound on other? Now I know that there is a speed difference between the two cards for the light. This might cause a problem for custom colors, only if you want a constant color from the clash fx but, i think this might give a more realistic effect. Is it even possible?

[Novastar]

Erv's Crystal Focus and Alex's Ultra board can "spit out" a max of 1500ma.

It's conceivable to run two Lux LEDs as a staff via a single driver from Erv or Alex... which would both be best run as 700ma LEDs, but sticking in a third LED might leave something to be desired, since you'd only be able to drive 500ma to each at best.

It's true that you COULD give all of them a different and higher current (parallel vs. series and the reverse, etc.), but it would suck the life out of your batteries faster than a hoover deluxe.

[Corbin_Das]

If you run the LEDs in series, each one would get the full amperage, but the voltage would be split between them. So you'd have to make sure there was enough voltage available for that.

For instance, three red Luxes wired in series in a Tri-Lux.... three Li-Ions in series going through a 1400mA driver would probably work well (assuming the driver would handle it).


Corbin

[Hasid Lafre]

What about another option?

A Twin Lux setup.

It just hit me like a mac truck, 2 Amber's side by side with a reflector type lense( like the ones in flashlights), A person would be abel to cut down on cost. battery power needed and can still use a driver/dimmer/ sound board setup. An best of all a slight cutdown on size needed.

Would something like this be an option? I would sure be intrested in something like this.

[acerocket]

The problem with using a single reflector type lense is that they prefer a single point source for the light. Putting two LEDs (and therefore two point sources) in a single reflector is not going to optimize the light output of the reflector - it may even hurt it. Now if you had a specially designed reflector that kind of resembled a figure "8" you could probably make a workable system, but it would not be as good as two seperate reflectors. I did a quick model of a two LED setup using the smaller tri-lux optics and you could get it inside a 1.125" diameter (possibly even down to 1.1". If you wanted to go full tilt and actually modify the optics, you might even be able to get it down to 1" diameter. You still need a decent heatsink for two LEDs and the smaller you make the diameter, the less surface area you will have. I would have to see what kind of space two Rebels would need to see if they would work on a 1" diameter heatsink, but I am sure the Lux I and Lux III would be OK. If you are interested in this, PM me and we can discuss it later.

[Hasid Lafre]

Well I was more intrested in shortening the whole assembly even it it was just a bit.

[Kit Fisto]

any updates??

I am very excited about this tri lux thing
RGB saber will be the ish!!

[supertrogdor]

Ace is moving, give him some time to get settled, i figure as many of us are anxious to try his wares he will not hesitate to keep us posted

[acerocket]

Yes, moving. And what an experience it has been. I am finally in Idaho now and have a lot of unpacking and basement/garage finishing to do before I can set up my shop again. I will post some updates shortly for those who are interested.

[supertrogdor]

Welcome to my fair city Ace!

[Novastar]

Copy that Ace... welcome back to earth, heheheh

Enjoy the unpacking!

[acerocket]

Copy that Ace... welcome back to earth, heheheh

Enjoy the unpacking!

Yeah, all 534 boxes/items comprising 13,452 seperate items. How do I know this? Because for the insurance through the mover, we had to itemize every single thing they took. It's mostly all unpacked and I have been working on finishing the two rooms in the basement for my wife's office and my son's playroom.

SuperT - What's with the funky weather here? Can't it make up it's mind? 100 degrees at noon, 90 mph winds at 3:00, and pouring rain at 5:00. But I do love my view of the mountains.

[Jedi Ranger]

Acerocket - glad to hear that the move went smoothly. A view of the mountains is always great, I think. But I have it better - I live in the mountains!

[Lord Maul]

glad to hear your move is going well Ace!

let us know when you're all settled in, as i know there are several people requiring your assistance (myself included :lol: ).

[supertrogdor]

Maybe i should have warned you of the weather here, if you dont like it... wait 5 minutes and it will change. The 90s are quite rare this time of year, generally late july to the first week of september is our hottest time of year, and we have had uncommonly rare specks of rain, generally it rains quite a bit more in the summertime. Our local resevoir is down to 8% and a bridge that was once used for cars to cross the river is exposed for the first time since the dam was built. Generally we get more snow in the winter that fills the lake as it melts, but enough about the weather, school started today isnt that more interesting? Oh and Sabers, lot of sabers, far more fun than our wierd weather.
p.s. have you been up to see the windmills? they are enormous, 480 yards of concrete in the base of each one

[Hasid Lafre]

I just got to thinking about something.....

Ok with the trilux you need a good sized heatsink, ok thats all fine and dandy. You can take a small amout of length off of it from anodizing cause as I have learned that anodizing helps increase surface area and better heat disopation.

Ok now heres my idea. Instead of making the led unit sit low in the hilt what if the (mhs just for example) bladeholder area where the optics sit. What if that was opened up a bit for the unit to sit up into the bladeholder like the optics do.

How well would that work out as far as structeral integrity for the bladeholder?

Would it be stable enought if some of the id was opened up, basicly making the trilux unit set inside some of the bottem of the bladeholder?