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Darth Wumbo
05-07-2015, 04:55 PM
Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some help what what will be become my first saber build. I'm wanting to make something like Jaina Solo's lightsaber from Genesis Custom Sabers (http://genesiscustomsabers.com/?p=2700) but with a rotating crystal chamber unit from Ammnra (https://www.etsy.com/listing/169513633/rotating-crystal-chamber-unit-mhs-v1?ref=shop_home_active_10). Posted below is the sixteenth iteration of my design and I'd like a few second opinions on it.

1129611297

I think a battery should be able to fit inside the choke, I'm pretty sure there's enough room for a speaker next to the pommel, I added an extra double female behind the blade holder for the heatsink/LED, and I added a 2" double female between the choke and the crystal chamber unit to fit a ring switch.

Is there enough room for all of the other parts? Such as sound modules and all the wiring? Is all the wiring even possible what with the battery being located in the choke?
Do you guys see any way to shave the length down at all? Or is it not long enough? I'd like to get it under 12" and right now it's at 13.7".

I know this is a pretty complex first build, but I'm confident that if I have all the right parts, I can assemble it correctly. It's only a few steps up from building those LEGO Super Star Destroyers from back in the day :mrgreen:

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-07-2015, 06:49 PM
First off, Welcome to the Forums.


Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some help what what will be become my first saber build. I'm wanting to make something like Jaina Solo's lightsaber from Genesis Custom Sabers (http://genesiscustomsabers.com/?p=2700) but with a rotating crystal chamber unit from Ammnra (https://www.etsy.com/listing/169513633/rotating-crystal-chamber-unit-mhs-v1?ref=shop_home_active_10). Posted below is the sixteenth iteration of my design and I'd like a few second opinions on it.

1129611297

I think a battery should be able to fit inside the choke, I'm pretty sure there's enough room for a speaker next to the pommel, I added an extra double female behind the blade holder for the heatsink/LED, and I added a 2" double female between the choke and the crystal chamber unit to fit a ring switch.

Is there enough room for all of the other parts? Such as sound modules and all the wiring? Is all the wiring even possible what with the battery being located in the choke?
Do you guys see any way to shave the length down at all? Or is it not long enough? I'd like to get it under 12" and right now it's at 13.7".

I know this is a pretty complex first build, but I'm confident that if I have all the right parts, I can assemble it correctly. It's only a few steps up from building those LEGO Super Star Destroyers from back in the day :mrgreen:

Now to answer your questions: Yes, it is a complex build. Depending on what else you want to stuff in there, I am going to go with no, there is not enough room. Putting the battery in the choke will make your life a little more difficult, depending on which type of LED you wanted to use.

From your confidence level, I take it you have a fair amount of soldering experience?

Ty_Bomber
05-07-2015, 07:10 PM
If youre wanting to shorten the saber (like I would) I would suggest getting a single 4-5" extension and request the milled slots from Tim. You would loose the chamfered edges on the larger cutout, but could easily still get the window on the piece for your chamber, it would be significantly cheaper, and would have less threaded parts to worry about.

I would also suggest a small board, such as a nano or Prizm if youre planning on fitting that rotating crystal chamber in there (although there are other, better ways of doing a chamber that would take up less of a footprint, IMO) and if you're still needing to fit a battery, I would suggest a smaller 18500 cell over the 18650, just to give you breathing room for your wires.

Aside from that, if you use 28-30 gauge wire and plan your routes carefully, it can be done, but it will test your patience. Just be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. I'm sure you'll do fine.

Zahc Zi Phan
05-07-2015, 10:03 PM
A bit of advice that I learned the hard way with my first build: If you think you have enough space, you probably don't. My first saber was built using the graflex blade holder, an MHS gear section, a 7" fluted double female, a box for the switches and ports, and a large-ish pommel. Thats about 10" of solid consistent diameter internal space (IIRC). The saber is 13" long. Even with all that space, fitting in a 2-cell 7.4v pack, a rice port, a recharge port, two anti vandals, a speaker, and a petit crouton, made my butt pucker. :confused: I also used chassis discs and carefully put it all together using all space as efficiently as possible. Still barely made it.

My advice is this, and I am currently practicing this, even tonight, so I say it with experience. Study the size of your parts, draw them on a piece of graph paper using the dimensions you can find in the store. Cut the drawings out and place them on top of each other. Carefully plan and pay attention to the size of your parts. I cannot stress this enough.

Darth Wumbo
05-08-2015, 01:01 PM
Thanks for all the replies. Sorry for not responding sooner, but I forgot to subscribe to my own thread. That gets me every time I join a new forum :confused:


First off, Welcome to the Forums.

Now to answer your questions: Yes, it is a complex build. Depending on what else you want to stuff in there, I am going to go with no, there is not enough room. Putting the battery in the choke will make your life a little more difficult, depending on which type of LED you wanted to use.

From your confidence level, I take it you have a fair amount of soldering experience?

I actually have zero soldering experience but know a friend who is an expert. I'm sure you've heard this before but, how hard can it be? I just hope I don't end up ruining a $100+ board.

As far as actual features, this is going to be a pretty basic saber. I'll only have one switch to turn it on/off and I'm fine with unscrewing it to recharge or change the sound font.

I think the Prizm is the sound module I want. I'd much prefer the smaller Nano Biscotte, but it doesn't have FoC. I think there's enough room to squeeze it in the 2" female between the rotating crystal chamber and the choke, but I'll have to find a way to mount it to something to keep it from rattling around. Any ideas? Hot glue is my first thought. My next is some sort of scaffolding made of toothpicks :p


If youre wanting to shorten the saber (like I would) I would suggest getting a single 4-5" extension and request the milled slots from Tim. You would loose the chamfered edges on the larger cutout, but could easily still get the window on the piece for your chamber, it would be significantly cheaper, and would have less threaded parts to worry about.

That sounds like a good idea. I'll look into it.


I would also suggest a small board, such as a nano or Prizm if youre planning on fitting that rotating crystal chamber in there (although there are other, better ways of doing a chamber that would take up less of a footprint, IMO) and if you're still needing to fit a battery, I would suggest a smaller 18500 cell over the 18650, just to give you breathing room for your wires.

Better ways to do a rotating crystal chamber unit? I've seen plenty of static ones that, while they look awesome, they just simply aren't as alive as this moving one. Honestly, this chamber unit is the entire reason I became interested in making a saber. I saw it on etsy and just thought "I have to have that."

Also, I think I might be able to remove the 1.2" double female between the choke and the blade holder.
11300
There's enough room for the heatsink inside the choke, and I could always choose a shorter battery or shave the heatsink if I need to. Now I'm down to 12.5". I'd like to go shorter but I could also add an extra inch before or after the crystal chamber unit if need be.

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-08-2015, 03:47 PM
I actually have zero soldering experience but know a friend who is an expert. I'm sure you've heard this before but, how hard can it be? I just hope I don't end up ruining a $100+ board.


Yeah, you might not like the real answer to that question. Fortunately, I know people who fix boards once they've been "borked".




As far as actual features, this is going to be a pretty basic saber. I'll only have one switch to turn it on/off and I'm fine with unscrewing it to recharge or change the sound font.

I think the Prizm is the sound module I want. I'd much prefer the smaller Nano Biscotte, but it doesn't have FoC. I think there's enough room to squeeze it in the 2" female between the rotating crystal chamber and the choke, but I'll have to find a way to mount it to something to keep it from rattling around. Any ideas? Hot glue is my first thought. My next is some sort of scaffolding made of toothpicks :p


NB's (V2's) do have FoC. You still won't fit it into a 2" piece, as only 1" of it is really "usable". You could use the chassis parts sold int he store, assuming you can come up with the right design, and then get it all to fit. You'll find that the space is a whole lot smaller than you think it is. ;)

Ty_Bomber
05-08-2015, 04:05 PM
If you want a single switch, I suggest the nano. You can easily add FoC to it with a power extender:

https://youtu.be/ZldjWimMAvE

The prizm uses a 2nd switch to trigger extra fx like lockups and blaster deflections. So Nano would definitely suit you, and help save much needed real estate.

As for the chamber, I would have had a recommendation, but it appears it is no longer for sale, so you’ll just have to hope yours fits.

Darth Wumbo
05-08-2015, 06:09 PM
Yeah, you might not like the real answer to that question. Fortunately, I know people who fix boards once they've been "borked".

Don't worry, I'll take it slow and cautious, even if it means only soldiering at a rate of one wire a day.


If you want a single switch, I suggest the nano. You can easily add FoC to it with a power extender:

https://youtu.be/ZldjWimMAvE

The prizm uses a 2nd switch to trigger extra fx like lockups and blaster deflections. So Nano would definitely suit you, and help save much needed real estate.

As for the chamber, I would have had a recommendation, but it appears it is no longer for sale, so you’ll just have to hope yours fits.

Thanks, I was actually just watching that video :D

I'm not sure if the Prism + PEx would be a benefit or not since the extra wires could cram up too much space. Then again, splitting up the board has it's own cramming advantages. I think I'll go this route.

I've redesigned my saber a few more times. In the diagram below, the first seven are configurations tested by Ammnra (the creator of the rotating crystal chamber unit). The final three are mine.
http://i.imgur.com/9eTpbCC.png

It looks like at the absolute minimum, I can shave my saber down to 11.7". This is my goal.

To do this, I'll need to trim down both the speaker mount and the heatsink. I'm not going to be attaching any batteries or boards to the speaker mount, so a lot of it is excess that should be fine to shave, correct? I may be tricker to squeeze it into the threaded part of the pommel. As for the heat sink, I'm not sure if that's going to be a problem. I know from building computers that messing with the heatsink can lead to catastrophe, but this is much different. If I trim it down, I'm not loosing much surface area and I shouldn't need to worry about the LED overheating and melting things, should I?

I'm also going to need to wire up a LOT of cards. The longer latching AV switch simply takes up too much space. The shorter momentary AV switch seems better, but now I'll have to squeeze in a Momentary to Latching converter. I think it can be done, but it'll be a major hassle working with the MLc, Nano Biscotte, and Power Extendor.

So does it seem possible, or am I crazy? When it comes time, I'll probably end up ordering some extra extenders just in case the shorter ones are too short.

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-08-2015, 06:31 PM
A NB won't work with a latching switch. The space behind the speaker holder helps with the sound.

As I said earlier, I highly doubt you have enough room as you have it currently configured. I don't think you quite appreciate how little room you're going to have, and adding a bunch of extensions will look weird after a while. The 14" one looks like it might be doable.

If you want a "short" saber, and the chamber you want, I would lose the long choke section (or ditch the idea of a Jania Solo type layout) altogether.

Darth Wumbo
05-08-2015, 06:58 PM
So I don't even need the converter for me to use the shorter momentary switch? Awesome.

I can respect good sound, but I think I'll still try shaving the holder. It's cheap enough that I'll just order two and try it out.

Nah, the long choke is it's second most defining feature. I really think it'll feel good in my hands and make it easier to twirl between my fingers.

You're right. I won't be able to appreciate how much room I've got until I've got the pieces to work with. If it's way too crammed, I'll order the longer 2" or 3" extension. Ouch, I just realized I'll also have to order hole machining for those extensions as well. Oh well, maybe I can work them into another build in the future.

Darth Wumbo
05-10-2015, 07:13 PM
Alright, so here's a wiring diagram I made. Could someone please check my work to make sure everything's fine and nothing's going to explode or give me cancer or come alive and eat my dog? While your at it, look for any shortcuts or more space conserving ways to complete what I'm trying to accomplish here.

http://i.imgur.com/cewE8B5.jpg

Thanks in advance, you guys are awesome.

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-10-2015, 07:17 PM
You may find that it will be better to put a resistor on each die of the main LED (after the splitoff). Also I don't see a resistor at all for the FoC die.

Darth Wumbo
05-10-2015, 07:39 PM
You may find that it will be better to put a resistor on each die of the main LED (after the splitoff).

You mean using two resistors when I would've had one? Would it be too dangerous if I only used one resistor?


Also I don't see a resistor at all for the FoC die.

Like this?
http://i.imgur.com/02TFOOT.jpg
I'm also not 100% sure if the resistors to my main LED are the right kind. I used http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz to calculate the resistor value for the LED on the switch and behind the Crystal Chamber, but I couldn't find the voltage and current of the Tri-rebel on the store page. (it's probably there, I just don't know how to read it)

Silver Serpent
05-10-2015, 08:13 PM
The specs for the individual dice on the Tri-Rebel are here: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Luxeon-Rebel-Star-P523.aspx

It's better to use two resistors. If you only use one where you've got it on the diagram, you run the risk of having one LED overdraw current, blow, and then the other one will blow shortly afterwards. If you use a resistor on each LED die, this won't happen.

Don't forget to bridge the pads on the PEX, since you're not putting the resistor on board for FoC.

Darth Wumbo
05-10-2015, 08:58 PM
The specs for the individual dice on the Tri-Rebel are here: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Luxeon-Rebel-Star-P523.aspx

Thank you


It's better to use two resistors. If you only use one where you've got it on the diagram, you run the risk of having one LED overdraw current, blow, and then the other one will blow shortly afterwards. If you use a resistor on each LED die, this won't happen.

Yes, but how common is this? Rob only uses one in his video for TCSS on YouTube https://youtu.be/ZldjWimMAvE?t=6m8s


Don't forget to bridge the pads on the PEX, since you're not putting the resistor on board for FoC.

Oh, so there's no wiring within the power extender between the two pads? Your right, it makes way more sense to put the resistor on the PEx to save space.

http://i.imgur.com/fhtR4V4.jpg

Silver Serpent
05-11-2015, 08:27 AM
Madcow's been doing this for a long time. His soldering skills are top-notch, and I don't think he'll be terribly worried if the occasional Tri-star LED is unbalanced and burns out. He's got spares in his shop. For the rest of us, we'd rather not risk burning a LED and having to wait for another to ship. If they're both the same color and bin, it's unlikely to cause an issue. But resistors cost less than $1 and will save a $20+ part from burning.

You can put the resistor on the PEX itself if you have a SMD resistor. Regular resistors are unlikely to fit. Just bridge the pads in that case.

Darth Wumbo
05-11-2015, 10:15 AM
Madcow's been doing this for a long time. His soldering skills are top-notch, and I don't think he'll be terribly worried if the occasional Tri-star LED is unbalanced and burns out. He's got spares in his shop. For the rest of us, we'd rather not risk burning a LED and having to wait for another to ship. If they're both the same color and bin, it's unlikely to cause an issue. But resistors cost less than $1 and will save a $20+ part from burning.

Alright, I'm just trying to save space. I know resistors are tiny, but every bit counts. If it's unlikely to cause an issue, the LED on the switch and the LED behind the crystal chamber both take the same resistor. Would it be possible to just use one resistor for those two instead? I have a feeling I already know the answer...


You can put the resistor on the PEX itself if you have a SMD resistor. Regular resistors are unlikely to fit. Just bridge the pads in that case.

Is this the SMD resistor I'm looking for? http://www.newark.com/te-connectivity-cgs/smw54r7jt/resistor-4-7-ohm-5w-5/dp/94M9537?ost=smd+resistor&categoryId=800000005307

It looks so tiny, I'd probably be better off just bridging and not worrying about it anyway.

http://i.imgur.com/jSg5Iq7.jpg

HugeC
05-11-2015, 11:12 AM
Hey, so for my first saber I had a design kinda similar to yours with the same long choke:

11323

Re: battery in choke, it is possible, but the fit will be tight. The resistor for the main LED is pretty big (at least the one I got was), and I actually broke the wires going to it the first time I tried to jam the blade holder on, had to re-solder everything. I ended up having to push the battery down into the threaded section a bit to make room for the resistor. I thought I would need to put some padding in there to keep the battery from bouncing around, but with the two LED wires in there it just barely fits.

As for the choke making it easy to spin, I thought it would too, but after using it for several weeks it seems about the same. I think if you just had a straight section instead of a choke you will find it handles just fine, plus you'll get some more room to put things in there.

How are you going to get the speaker & chamber LED wires past the motorized section? If they won't thread through there somehow, seems like that might be a showstopper for you.

I know what it's like to be totally excited about your design, but it looks like it's going to be really hard to make it work. I was so excited for my saber that I found it impossible to heed the advice of the vets on this board, and luckily my saber works, but it could easily have gone the other way, plus I can never open it up again without a lot of work (so no changing the sound font for me). If you can get excited about a slightly longer saber with more room, that'd be my advice, because the space really disappears fast! Also I really wish I had done an internal chassis in mine, so definitely check that out.

Bark
05-11-2015, 11:12 AM
I would also dedicate one resistor per LED die. It's not worth risking the burnout, IMO.

Silver Serpent
05-11-2015, 12:36 PM
Is this the SMD resistor I'm looking for?
It looks so tiny, I'd probably be better off just bridging and not worrying about it anyway.


That one is too big. Bridging is the best option. Or just bypass those pads altogether. If you're not using an SMD resistor, there's no need to use them. It's there for convenience. Unfortunately, it's really REALLY hard to find resistors in that size over 1 or 2 watts.

Darth Wumbo
05-11-2015, 01:30 PM
Hey, so for my first saber I had a design kinda similar to yours with the same long choke:

11323

Re: battery in choke, it is possible, but the fit will be tight. The resistor for the main LED is pretty big (at least the one I got was), and I actually broke the wires going to it the first time I tried to jam the blade holder on, had to re-solder everything. I ended up having to push the battery down into the threaded section a bit to make room for the resistor. I thought I would need to put some padding in there to keep the battery from bouncing around, but with the two LED wires in there it just barely fits.

I was thinking of placing the resistors before the choke and battery so I can keep it closer to the heatsink.


As for the choke making it easy to spin, I thought it would too, but after using it for several weeks it seems about the same. I think if you just had a straight section instead of a choke you will find it handles just fine, plus you'll get some more room to put things in there.

Yeah, but it still helps to fight that boring tubular design that I feel plagues so many sabers.


How are you going to get the speaker & chamber LED wires past the motorized section? If they won't thread through there somehow, seems like that might be a showstopper for you.

I was thinking I could squeeze them between the 3D printed part and the MHS part and then stealthily run them directly underneath the MHS metal, maybe holding them there with hot glue. I'll have to ask Ammnra how he did his since he surely had to find a way around this same dilemma.


I know what it's like to be totally excited about your design, but it looks like it's going to be really hard to make it work. I was so excited for my saber that I found it impossible to heed the advice of the vets on this board, and luckily my saber works, but it could easily have gone the other way, plus I can never open it up again without a lot of work (so no changing the sound font for me). If you can get excited about a slightly longer saber with more room, that'd be my advice, because the space really disappears fast! Also I really wish I had done an internal chassis in mine, so definitely check that out.

Yeah, you guys are right. After drawing out all the wiring I need to do, I can see how this'll become a huge headache. I'll try to go for a 13.5" saber. I'm not too worried about having to open my saber up. I'll be happy with picking one sound font I like and sticking with it. I'd also like a chassis. I'd also like a battery indicator and a lock-up button but I don't see any of those as being entirely useful or necessary, plus they take up extra space when my goal this whole time has been to cut back.

Silver Serpent
05-11-2015, 05:24 PM
Don't worry about having to tone down your first saber. It's hard to stop at just one, and the skills you get from this build will make your subsequent sabers all the better.

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-11-2015, 05:31 PM
Yeah, but it still helps to fight that boring tubular design that I feel plagues so many sabers.


Boring is a matter of opinion, I have done designs that are considered Simple and Elegant, intricate, and downright lethal looking. It's all in the skill of the designer.

HugeC
05-11-2015, 05:35 PM
I was thinking I could squeeze them between the 3D printed part and the MHS part and then stealthily run them directly underneath the MHS metal, maybe holding them there with hot glue. I'll have to ask Ammnra how he did his since he surely had to find a way around this same dilemma.

Yeah I guess it must be possible, 'cause even if you put it near the blade, you'd still have to run the main LED wires past it.

I hear what you're saying on the look, I felt the same. You can make it work for sure, just maybe not with everything else you've got planned on there.

Darth Wumbo
05-12-2015, 11:25 AM
11323

Hey, what battery did you use? The one in your diagram looks shorter than the 18500 I was going to use. Would the shorter 3.7V 18650 be able to get the job done instead of the 7.4V 18500?


Don't worry about having to tone down your first saber. It's hard to stop at just one, and the skills you get from this build will make your subsequent sabers all the better.

Oh, I know the feeling. I'm already thinking of my next build which may involve PVC, EL tape, and lots of chrome. Though, I really like this design and perhaps I'll come back to it and refine it after getting some practice.


Boring is a matter of opinion, I have done designs that are considered Simple and Elegant, intricate, and downright lethal looking. It's all in the skill of the designer.

I understand, I'm just not a fan of the look of a straight tube with extra bits glued on. In my opinion, it all adds up to look like a mess. I'm trying to cut the clutter and keep this saber as essential as possible. I know others may not be a fan of my design and say that it's boring or it's missing features and that's fine. It's all opinion.