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View Full Version : NBV2 Swing sound repeats over and over



BigT_SOTF
04-02-2014, 06:43 PM
Just got a Nano Biscotte v2 for my hilt, wired it up, everything is working great, but the swing sounds keep playing repeatedly. I disconnected power, backed up the card (ctrl+c/ctrl+v), formatted, and copied the files back over (ctrl+c/ctrl+v), replaced the card in the board, connected power, removed kill-key, powered up, and the swing sound repeats over and over with the hum. I can get a clash sound, which overrides the hum+swing combo, but it goes back to hum+swing.

I'm using 3xAAA in a 4xAAA holder with a dummy cell (until I can order some li-ions), with an LED string blade resisted and a custom momentary button. I can upload pics of my wiring if you like. The board is positioned mid-hilt, with the 20mm prem speaker (from the Shop) in the pommel, and I had heat shrink tube/wrap over the board so it wouldn't contact with anything until I could make a PVC holder for it, which I removed for troubleshooting just now with no difference. I can open the hilt, expose the board, and it will play the swing sounds repeatedly sitting on the table. Only thing I can think of is maybe vibrations from the speaker or a bad swing sensor on the board.

Any ideas guys?

Forgetful Jedi Knight
04-02-2014, 07:16 PM
Try adjusting your swing settings so the swings aren't so sensitive (ls) and also maybe play with the overall sensitivity (i) setting and make it lower. Welcome to saber tuning.

BigT_SOTF
04-02-2014, 09:01 PM
Thank you for your reply.

I dropped the (i) down to 43 from 53, and the (ls) to 60 from 50. Swing is set at 300 from 200. I get power on, hum for a few seconds, then it starts repeating swing sounds. Second attempt, I dropped the (i) from 43 to 38, the (ls) from 60 to 70, and (swing) from 300 to 200. Power on, hum for 1 second then repeated swing sounds.

Let me see if I get this right. (i) being general sensitivity, if I use a lower value, it decreases the overall general sensitivity. Whereas, (ls) is the "low swing" value and increasing the value will decrease the sensitivity. Yes? Or have I got the latter backward and it is the same (higher value=higher sensitivity) as (i)?

Edit2: Well, there's no repeating swing sound, but now I have no swing sensitivity. lol Oi ... back to tweaking.

Edit1: I think I got it, seeing as the swing sounds stopped repeating. Am I right in thinking these boards all have their own personalities and need to be tweaked on an individual basis with no two boards using the exact same settings for the same results, or is this abnormal? And just for reference, my settings that seem to be working (as I type this) are as follows:

//Nano Biscotte Dark Meat
vol=4
drive=1023
fdrive=1023
offd=200
deep=15000
resume=0
lc=450
hs=320
ls=100
i=30
shmrd=210
shmrp=6
shmrr=13
focd=200
focp=10
focr=10
swing=200
clash=100
qon=0
qoff=0
flks=10
flkd=35

BigT_SOTF
04-02-2014, 10:38 PM
I've played with the (i) and (ls) values, trying to find a happy median. Even with (i) = 45 and (ls) = 100, I get repeating swing sounds and poor swing sensitivity (latter is expected), or it will trigger a swing sound sitting still and not being moved. I could do away with swing sounds all together by kicking the (ls) value up, but this kind of defies the purpose of having swing sounds.

Current values:

//Nano Biscotte Dark Meat
vol=4
drive=1023
fdrive=1023
offd=200
deep=15000
resume=0
lc=390
hs=220
ls=100
i=45
shmrd=210
shmrp=6
shmrr=13
focd=200
focp=10
focr=10
swing=200
clash=100
qon=0
qoff=0
flks=7
flkd=25

Forgetful Jedi Knight
04-03-2014, 05:58 AM
OK. Now that I have reread this, I would need to see a pic of your wiring, but more importantly, I would need to see how you have the board secured within the hilt. Also having the entire board shrink wrapped is not a good idea. The board needs to breathe. That could also be part of your problem.

Boards do need to be tuned, not because each has it's own personality, but because of where one decided to place a board within a hilt. They physics of the build will determine how much "tuning" will be necessary.

Don Se Wion
04-07-2014, 01:35 AM
I had the same problem on a couple of builds with NB v1.
The first time I played a lot with the sensitivity settings and solved it lowering the I parameter a lot (outside the limits described by Erv in the manual though).
The second time by pure chance I managed to find out that lowering the sound volume stopped the problem (I put the volume to 0 to tune the saber without annoying my gf).

So, try to set the volume to 3.
In my case it worked right away without the need to get crazy with the sensitivity parameters.

I believe the problem is caused in some builds by the combined current drained by the LED and the speaker, that may be affecting the sensitivity of the board.

Silver Serpent
04-07-2014, 06:13 AM
Lowering the volume helps in a number of cases, because the speaker vibration itself can trigger the swings. I've got an old PC saber on volume 4, and it feels like I have a rumble motor installed.

Ledwo
05-16-2014, 10:22 AM
I have the same issue with my nb v2, at first it worked fine, but then it suddenly got this bug. The first time I got rid of it by cutting of the boards power, the second time it stayed.
Then I reduced the sensitivity, set the ls-value higher and lowered the volume to 3.. the bug was gone for a day but came back right now.
I don't want to reduce the sensitivity any further because it would make the swing-feature pointless.
The board is secured with electrical tape (with the SD-card-side up, shouldn't cause any heat problems) and doesn't wiggle.
Any ideas what is causing the problem or how to solve the problem?
Thanks in advance.

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-16-2014, 10:29 AM
Well, my first question would be, what LED are you using and do you have it resistored properly?

Ledwo
05-16-2014, 10:37 AM
I have a Seoul P4 LED with a 2.2 Ohms resistor.

What makes me wonder is the fact, that everything worked without a problem with the old and the new settings, but went bad after a day.

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-16-2014, 10:41 AM
I have a Seoul P4 LED with a 2.2 Ohms resistor.

What color LED, what wattage resistor?

Ledwo
05-16-2014, 10:44 AM
Green with a 4 or 5 watts resistor.
Clash sounds are triggered without a problem.
Power supply are 4 AAA Ni-MH batteries with a 1N400x diode (like it's described in the NB v2 manual).

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-16-2014, 10:51 AM
Well, using electrical tape isn't ideal, and taping the board upside down isn't good either. I believe your board is getting hot over time which would cause your issue. Also If you are using a 3.7V battery, your resistor is way too much. It should be .5 Ohm 1/2W.

Let me guess, you have your board taped to your battery? Do you have a chassis?

Ledwo
05-16-2014, 10:53 AM
9925
The bug was gone when I unplugged the SD-card and plugged it back in (like last time when I changed the setting).. testing if it keeps working.

Ledwo
05-16-2014, 11:03 AM
The problem returned after running a few seconds without moving, I removed the tape but nothing changes.
Also tried another SD card with a backup of the factory settings without success.

Silver Serpent
05-16-2014, 11:08 AM
Try recharging your batteries. The boards do all kinds of odd things when the voltage gets low.

Forgetful Jedi Knight
05-16-2014, 11:09 AM
Try recharging your batteries. The boards do all kinds of odd things when the voltage gets low.

Agreed. With those batteries, you will need to charge them early and often.

Ledwo
05-16-2014, 11:15 AM
Ok, saber is plugged in.
I decided to use eneloops because they keep their charge for a while but the fact that they only have 800mAh sucks (especially since the LED draws more than 1A).
I'm going to report back when the saber is fully charged.

Ledwo
05-16-2014, 12:38 PM
Saber is fully charged and the problem seems gone.
Thanks for the quick help, wouldn't have guessed that low power can cause such problems. :D

TwinMill
11-08-2014, 10:22 AM
having the entire board shrink wrapped is not a good idea. The board needs to breathe.

Sorry to necropost, but this statement brought up a question for me, and I thought maybe it would use less of Tim's bandwidth to post
a reply instead of a new topic.

...Anyways, I currently have my NBv2 loosely covered in heat shrink, just wanting it to not short out on the inside of my hilt. So far it's
working ok, although the swing detection seems a little weak. If I remove the heat shrink, what is a better way of preventing
short circuits?

Jay-gon Jinn
11-08-2014, 11:50 AM
You can use chassis parts to mount the sound board, or go the simple route and use a plastic liner cut from a T-8 fluorescent bulb cover. cut it to length, and slide it into the hilt to line the I.D. of the hilt, preventing shorts.

TwinMill
11-09-2014, 06:54 PM
After a lil research, the T8 tube looks like the simplest solution for me.

DarthFender
11-09-2014, 10:20 PM
You can also mount the board with double stick foam tape, just make sure that whatever you mount it to will keep it from touching the sides of your hilt. I've had good luck with that.

Jay-gon Jinn
11-10-2014, 10:00 AM
The board should still be secured to something, even when using the T-8 cover, because if it's flopping around loose inside the hilt you'll have all kids of extra swings when you don't want them.

TwinMill
11-10-2014, 01:28 PM
Thanks again for the extra bits of info. I do have some double stick foam tape squares laying around
(originally purchased to hang those 22" x 34" $5 Trends posters that can be bought at W*M)

I just may try combining the tips from the last 2 posts by taping my sound board to the T8 tube.

Jay-gon Jinn
11-10-2014, 03:40 PM
When I build what I call my Padawan Series sabers, I use the T-8 cover to line the inside of the hilt tube and attach the sound boards to he 18650 battery with the foam mounting tape.

DarthFender
11-10-2014, 10:40 PM
Yup that's the way to do it.

FenderBender
11-11-2014, 07:19 AM
Just as an aside, anytime an NB/CS/or Prizm gives you random swings, it's almost ALWAYS a battery/power issue. Either the LED is drawing too much (resistor needed), or you're using a poorly charged battery cell or the wrong type of batteries. Erv' recommends against Ni-MH batteries as they are not voltage stable (voltage ripple can cause false swings), and somewhere in the universe Bothans die anytime someone uses alkalines to power a soundboard. You should not have to adjust your swing sensitivity to nothing just to get it to go away. Also, having your saber (or even just your chassis during testing) sitting on a hard, flat surface will cause vibrations that the board confuses for swings. I don't know how many times people have said "I leave my saber sitting on the table/stand and it just starts swinging". Who turns a saber on just to let it sit on the table? No one, you're supposed to be swinging it around like a mad man. But it's supposed to be in your hands anyhow.

cvsickle
11-11-2014, 10:11 AM
Just as an aside, anytime an NB/CS/or Prizm gives you random swings, it's almost ALWAYS a battery/power issue.

What about a PCv3? I'm having this issue now when the onboard driver current is set above 800ma. I'm also using a color extender, on which both channels can be at at least 1000ma (at the same time) with no issue. Regardless of what current the color extender channels are set to, the onboard driver can't go above about 800ma before the swings start. I'm using a 7.4v 18500 pack from the store with a fresh charge. Any ideas?

Obi1
11-11-2014, 01:17 PM
To FenderBender listen you should.
PCv3 can also do the random swing feat. So far I could trace it back to battery/power issue.
Mostly it comes if there is a short or low-ohmic path on the supply. Or, what I've seen, when the cell is getting depleted and battery is low, it also caused random swings.

cvsickle
11-11-2014, 01:41 PM
I wasn't not listening to him. I was simply asking if what he was saying about the CS/NB/Prizm also applied to the PC. The boards he listed are not current regulated. The PC is, so I wasn't sure.

Obi1
11-12-2014, 05:14 AM
Sorry, I meant no offense, I just wanted to confirm:
- that in my experience such behaviour is a supply/power related stuff.
- yes, one of my PC based saber also had issues with it.

Although I do not have a proof here, I strongly suspect, that the current regulator is very similar to a power extended (a transistor switch), only that the gate voltage is regulated by the sensed current over a shunt (but this is only a speculation, could be that Erv now shakes his head and loughs...). So I think regulated or not will not cause here a difference.

Cheers!

Forgetful Jedi Knight
11-12-2014, 06:01 AM
Cvsickle's problem was more of a "the sensitivity wasn't properly tuned" kinda problem. Time to move along.

FenderBender
11-12-2014, 06:28 AM
If you're getting random swings over a certain current level on PC3 with CeX, on the main driver but not the CeX driver, then I would start looking for a short. Either at the LED or at the board. Or, and this would be rare, you have a board with a bad current regulator.

cvsickle
11-12-2014, 09:00 AM
Like FJK said, my i parameter was set too high in an attempt to deal with poor board placement. This very high value was probably allowing very small vibrations from the onboard driver to register as swings. No longer seems related to this topic.

T.Martin
03-14-2017, 07:32 AM
I had the same issue with my first build. Thankfully this forum exists. Lowered my overall sensitivity and it solved the swing sounds issue. Also, remember, do NOT do a quick format. Let it take it's time and do a slow format to delete all of the old files before putting new fonts on the SD card.