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RM SAMURAI
02-25-2013, 06:30 PM
Hey guys,
I have been looking for weeks for a solution to meet my needs. I have been researching all the forums and I am hoping you guys can help.
I know there is a thread about using FX Sabers for home theater sconces. I want to do the same thing but I do not want to loose the start up sequence. I know there is a way to wire a 555 timer into the circuit but I am not sure just how to do it. I will also hardwire them to a controlled switch.

Thanks for the help.

RM SAMURAI
03-04-2013, 04:37 PM
You telling me that no one has done this.

Kyaryo Ysoyav
03-04-2013, 05:42 PM
I was going to reference you to the only person I've seen who has, but it looks like you found it since you posted in that thread :)

RM SAMURAI
03-04-2013, 06:21 PM
Thanks buddy,
I have looked every where and people say they have done it but not how they have done it.

hedgehog1
03-04-2013, 06:35 PM
Do you have a FX saber hilt to test with?

RM SAMURAI
03-04-2013, 06:52 PM
I have 8 force fx sabers

hedgehog1
03-04-2013, 11:55 PM
OK, so I am assuming you want them to all 'power up together' when you flip a single switch (with the power-up sound)? Once they are on, do you want the sound to stop or keep going and fill the room? When you turn them off, do you want the shutdown sequence to run, or just 'go off'?

Knowing the desired behavior will guide the changes to the saber you have to make.

I am thinking the sound running forever would make everyone in the room nuts after a while; which means you need to modify the behavior of the sabers sound system as well.

Please think about and tell us how you want the 'power on' cycle, the 'staying on' cycle and the 'power off' cycles to look and sound. Then, the design will appear from that.

RM SAMURAI
03-05-2013, 09:24 AM
OK, so I am assuming you want them to all 'power up together' when you flip a single switch (with the power-up sound)? Once they are on, do you want the sound to stop or keep going and fill the room? When you turn them off, do you want the shutdown sequence to run, or just 'go off'?

Knowing the desired behavior will guide the changes to the saber you have to make.

I am thinking the sound running forever would make everyone in the room nuts after a while; which means you need to modify the behavior of the sabers sound system as well.

Please think about and tell us how you want the 'power on' cycle, the 'staying on' cycle and the 'power off' cycles to look and sound. Then, the design will appear from that.

Hedgehog1,
You are exactly right.
1. I want to control them all with a switch.
2. I want to keep the start up and shut down sequence.
3. I would like to have the sound on start up and shut down and off the rest of the time. If this can be accomplished that would be great. If this proves to be to difficult I could live without the sound.
These are sabers that I have.
Yoda, Mace, Darth Maul, Luke (Green), Vader, Anikin and Obi-Wan

Thanks again for all the help.

hedgehog1
03-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Hedgehog1,
You are exactly right.
1. I want to control them all with a switch.
2. I want to keep the start up and shut down sequence.
3. I would like to have the sound on start up and shut down and off the rest of the time. If this can be accomplished that would be great. If this proves to be to difficult I could live without the sound.
These are sabers that I have.
Yoda, Mace, Darth Maul, Luke (Green), Vader, Anikin and Obi-Wan

Thanks again for all the help.

OK - now that we know what you want them to do, we can talk modifications and plans.

To make the sound do only power up and power down (this is the hardest part), we need to think out of the box. The built in board is pretty much hard-coded with sounds and behaviors (which is fine for normal use). But you need custom behaviors, and that means customization to the sabers.

White board time (without the white board :D ):

ONE POSSIBLE IDEA: Is that the speakers in the sabers be disconnected, and a small (hidden) speaker in the sconce be the actual sound source. This will allow you to separate the power-up/power-down sequence on the LEDs (which will still use the built in boards) and use something small but very capable for just the sound - think Nano Biscotti (NB). The NB would have a sound font package with Power-up and power-down sounds to match each saber, and all other sounds would be 100 ms of silence WAV files. This way, you only hear the two sounds you want. So the work is divided: the saber does the lights, the NB does the custom sound.

Wiring to the sconces uses the readily-available 8 conductor 10BASET network cable. We are working at low voltages and amperage's, so this cable is adequate.

* 2 conductors give power to the built-in saber board
* 2 conductors replace the built-in power-on switch (thick of the button just being moved 50 or 100 feet away)
* 2 conductors power the NB sound board
* 2 conductors at attached to the momentary switch connection for the NB

Each sconce's cable run separately (home run) to your control area. Now, you can turn them on and off from a single location. Proper DC power to the sabers and NB can be left on all the time, or you can turn them off when the room is not being used, your choice. The NB do make a boot up boot-up noise when DC power is applied after being disconnected.

You can use a bank of eight double-pole buttons and 'light up' the sabers in a manual sequence, or automate the sequence So they light up in a visible pattern.

BETTER IDEA: The NBs can be mounted in the single control box, and their speakers are wired through the long cables (this would mean you could use a 6 conductor cable to each sconce). I think I would do it this way so it is easier to change sound fonts and make other adjustments to the NBs in a single location.

Anyway, that is my first pass with ideas on making this work.

RM SAMURAI
03-05-2013, 10:46 AM
OK - now that we know what you want them to do, we can talk modifications and plans.

To make the sound do only power up and power down (this is the hardest part), we need to think out of the box. The built in board is pretty much hard-coded with sounds and behaviors (which is fine for normal use). But you need custom behaviors, and that means customization to the sabers.

White board time (without the white board :D ):

ONE POSSIBLE IDEA: Is that the speakers in the sabers be disconnected, and a small (hidden) speaker in the sconce be the actual sound source. This will allow you to separate the power-up/power-down sequence on the LEDs (which will still use the built in boards) and use something small but very capable for just the sound - think Nano Biscotti (NB). The NB would have a sound font package with Power-up and power-down sounds to match each saber, and all other sounds would be 100 ms of silence WAV files. This way, you only hear the two sounds you want. So the work is divided: the saber does the lights, the NB does the custom sound.

Wiring to the sconces uses the readily-available 8 conductor 10BASET network cable. We are working at low voltages and amperage's, so this cable is adequate.

* 2 conductors give power to the built-in saber board
* 2 conductors replace the built-in power-on switch (thick of the button just being moved 50 or 100 feet away)
* 2 conductors power the NB sound board
* 2 conductors at attached to the momentary switch connection for the NB

Each sconce's cable run separately (home run) to your control area. Now, you can turn them on and off from a single location. Proper DC power to the sabers and NB can be left on all the time, or you can turn them off when the room is not being used, your choice. The NB do make a boot up boot-up noise when DC power is applied after being disconnected.

You can use a bank of eight double-pole buttons and 'light up' the sabers in a manual sequence, or automate the sequence So they light up in a visible pattern.

BETTER IDEA: The NBs can be mounted in the single control box, and their speakers are wired through the long cables (this would mean you could use a 6 conductor cable to each sconce). I think I would do it this way so it is easier to change sound fonts and make other adjustments to the NBs in a single location.

Anyway, that is my first pass with ideas on making this work.


Now we are cracking,

You gave me a very good ideah. I will have a control system so I could pump the sound through the A/V System. It will be a timing thing but that would eliminate the small speakers all together.
1. Nano Biscotti (Is this a custom board or something) I am googling now to see what it is.
2. The 8 conductor cable you are talking about. Do you mean cat 6 or something like that. Or do you think we will need bigger gauge wire. I know cat6 is 23awg.

Silver Serpent
03-05-2013, 10:55 AM
The Nano Biscotte board is sold here at the TCSS store. http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Nano-Biscotte-Sound-Module-V1-P806.aspx

I agree that running the sound through your audio system would be a good solution. A single NB board could provide sound, and then it becomes a matter of wiring up your sabers to operate on AC power (unless you want to change batteries all the time). You'll need an AC/DC adaptor that can provide 4.5v to each saber if you want them powered by the house.

RM SAMURAI
03-05-2013, 11:34 AM
I agree, we will need to use a AC/DC adsapter to run them all. What is the current on the sabers. I could use one ac/dc adapter to run them all. How many Nano Biscotti boards will I need. One for each Saber. I noticed that they dont have any in stock.

Silver Serpent
03-05-2013, 12:07 PM
If you're connecting the Nano directly to your sound system, then a single board is sufficient.

Each saber needs approximately 4.5v to run properly, if you're still using the original boards/blades. A little higher or lower than that is fine.

hedgehog1
03-05-2013, 12:30 PM
Now THIS is white boarding! Every one contributes and the idea get better and better!

One NB to the Sound System - excellent cost savings and better use of materials. I think it would sound less crazy the eight of them firing off at once, too.

SO:

1) 4.5 volts DC to all the sabers from an AC adapter
2) Snip a wire to the speakers in the sabers to make them silent
3) One NB for sound to the AV system, with power-up and power-down sounds (all others silent WAV files)

Now - the 'other guy' who did this said he wired to the LEDs directly. I think he meant that he wired to the separate LED blade segments directly - and this allowed him to turn on each blade segment in perfect sync. Is this something you want to consider? Of so, you would remove the boards from the sabers, and use one of the boards to drive some PEXs (power extenders), one per blade segment, so the sabers are perfectly synced in power up and power down.

One PEX would drive all the first segments in all the sabers, the second PEX would drive all the second segments, the third PEX would drive all the third segments (and so on). The PEX boards would be easily driven by the output of a single saber board.

How does this sound?

RM SAMURAI
03-05-2013, 01:19 PM
[QUOTE=hedgehog1;221385]Now THIS is white boarding! Every one contributes and the idea get better and better!

One NB to the Sound System - excellent cost savings and better use of materials. I think it would sound less crazy the eight of them firing off at once, too.

SO:

1) 4.5 volts DC to all the sabers from an AC adapter
2) Snip a wire to the speakers in the sabers to make them silent
3) One NB for sound to the AV system, with power-up and power-down sounds (all others silent WAV files)

Now - the 'other guy' who did this said he wired to the LEDs directly. I think he meant that he wired to the separate LED blade segments directly - and this allowed him to turn on each blade segment in perfect sync. Is this something you want to consider? Of so, you would remove the boards from the sabers, and use one of the boards to drive some PEXs (power extenders), one per blade segment, so the sabers are perfectly synced in power up and power down.

One PEX would drive all the first segments in all the sabers, the second PEX would drive all the second segments, the third PEX would drive all the third segments (and so on). The PEX boards would be easily driven by the output of a single saber board.

How does this sound?[/QUOTE

I am definatly for keeping as cheap and simple as possible. I dont have a problem gutting the sabers either. Having them synced would definatly be favorable. Plus having everything located in the media closet will help in control.
I am really liking this idea.
Where can I find the PEX you are talking about.
Just to make sure, can I use cat6 network cable for power wire. Or should I go with something else. Like Thermostat wire.
Now how do we actually do all of this.

hedgehog1
03-05-2013, 02:18 PM
Normally I would get them from TCSS here: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Power-Xtender-20-P652.aspx, but Tim is out of stock right now. The next source is the manufacturer in France here: http://www.plecterlabs.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=1151

The PEX acts as a 'powered switch' that turns on the bigger current when it gets over 3 volts. I think it draws 18ma, and can drive several thousand ma. We use them for FOC on PC sound boards, but they are good for many things.

You can ask Tim as TCSS if he is getting any PEX in soon - his sale price is cheaper compared to the euros exchange rate right now.

RM SAMURAI
03-05-2013, 04:16 PM
So about how many of these do you think I will need.
Sorry for asking this again but wire should I use to run from the sabers to media room.
I am taking it I only need one NB. Where else can I find these.

Thanks so much.

hedgehog1
03-05-2013, 04:25 PM
The NB are also available from TCSS: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Nano-Biscotte-Sound-Module-V1-P806.aspx. No, they are out of stock right now too. Dang! Well, the same web site in France has them right now. But Tim may be getting some soon.

You will need one PEX for each segment in a blade. I don't know how many segments the blades have. One PEX will drive every first segment in every saber, the second PEX will drive every second segment in every saber (and so on).

RM SAMURAI
03-05-2013, 04:43 PM
What about the Wire.

hedgehog1
03-05-2013, 08:19 PM
First - Tim says that an order of PEX have been shipped by Erv (Plector Labs) and are in route. He also has a batch of NBs ordered; they have been produced, but have not left France yet. So those should be in stock soon-ish.

I am assuming: Wire to the sconces is the question. The blades of the FX saber do not draw the kind of current the high-powered LEDs we use in custom light sabers do. This being the case, I think you can still use 10 base T network cable. It will have eight conductors - technically 4 'twisted pairs'. It is a common cable, so it is cheap (for copper) and plentiful. Folks call it 'cat-5' or 'cat-3' based on the speed of signal it can carry. Get whatever is cheap or on sale. For your purposes, you just need copper conductors in insulation. If the FX sabers have six or less blade sections, you can double up two wires for the common return; but even this may be overkill (but it never hurts).

RM SAMURAI
03-05-2013, 09:04 PM
First thanks for checking on the equipment.
I have plenty of cat 6, so I can use that.
I really like all the ideas. Is there anyway we could use the original boards. It would save me a bit of money. If there are only 3 segments a saber it won't be so bad. Any more than that it will add up fast. Don't get me wrong I am willing to do whatever I need to to get it work.

I have no knowledge in wiring up the boards. I know I can do it but I want to be sure how exactly this would be done.

Thanks

Silver Serpent
03-06-2013, 06:22 AM
You're overthinking this. Just disconnect the speakers from all your sabers, hook them up to 4.5v DC power, and flip the saber switch to ON. Then you just switch the 4.5v power supply on and off to activate all the sabers. If you're using the Nano Biscotte connected to your audio system, you'll want to come up with some way to trigger it simultaneously with the powering on of your sabers.

Or you skip the NB, and leave all the speakers connected in the sabers. Just wire them to power, and let their own speakers do the work for you.

The other person who did this didn't use the segmented LED blades. Their wiring and controls were significantly simpler.

RM SAMURAI
03-06-2013, 08:08 AM
Silver Serpent
I do agree with you on just Hard wiring the sabers. But how do I bypass the timer that shuts them down after 2 minutes.

hedgehog1
03-06-2013, 08:26 AM
First thanks for checking on the equipment.
I have plenty of cat 6, so I can use that.
I really like all the ideas. Is there anyway we could use the original boards. It would save me a bit of money. If there are only 3 segments a saber it won't be so bad. Any more than that it will add up fast. Don't get me wrong I am willing to do whatever I need to to get it work.

I have no knowledge in wiring up the boards. I know I can do it but I want to be sure how exactly this would be done.

Thanks

OK - keeping it simple (and more cost effective) is fine (it is your project after all). Silver Serpent's (very cost effective) idea to leave them turned on and apply power to them all at once will give you the start-up sequence, but no the shut-down sequence when you cut power to the sabers (and that may be fine for you, but it wasn't on your wish list that way).

Part of the reality is that using FX sabers for sconces sound like a great idea at first, but in reality they are not the best choice for lighting. You are seeing the complexities if you want power-up and power-down sequences and custom sound with only power-up and power-down sequences making noise. You are entering into the complex world of 'stage lighting'; and that is a science/art unto itself. Disney does this kind of thing very well, and they need a team of imagineers to program sound and lighting for attractions (even the waiting areas for rides are carefully lighted and given ambiance sounds to match the ride).

There are other solutions - but the 'cooler' they look, the more expensive/complex they become.

If I were doing this (warning: more over engineering coming up) I would use RGBW (Red Blue Green White) LED Engines in sabers made from TCSS parts from that were designed to mount on the wall. Then, i would control the sabers LED from a single controller have them 'fire up' in the colors to match their look (RED for sith and so on), but then slowly transition them to a dim white for gentle theater lighting during the movie. Power-up & power-down sounds would come from in hilt speakers - But they would all have the same sound sent from the central controller. These sounds would go to 'saber hum' after power-on and then fade out. This would cost serious money and time. It would look cool. My wife would kill me. Seriously, she would kill me. I have done silly things like this before.

Cheap and cheerful for you: snip a speaker wire in the hilts, leave them turned on, apply 4.5v to them all to get the power-up sequence and have no saber sound at all. You can later modify them further if you so desire using the extra conductors in your cat-6 wire. In the meantime, you get most of the 'cool factor' from them.

RM SAMURAI
03-06-2013, 08:53 AM
If I loose sound, I can live with that. I know the sabers could be gutted and hard wire that way. Not preferred. I really want to keep the start up sequence. I have found a few references in using a IC 555 timer but never how they actually wired it in with the saber electronics. I want what will work best.
Would it be possible to use a 1 PEX on all the sabers first string, 1 on the second and so on. Or is to much load for the Pex to handle

Silver Serpent
03-06-2013, 09:20 AM
But how do I bypass the timer that shuts them down after 2 minutes.

They turn off after two minutes? I knew the cheap plastic sabers had a timer built in, but I never noticed it with my MR saber. Then again, if it's on, I'm swinging it. :)

I assume a clash or swing event will prevent it from shutting off. So long as you don't have the saber speakers hooked up, you could always hardwire the swing or clash sensor shut. That should prevent the idle timer from kicking in. You *could* do it if the speakers were still connected, but you'd end up with a ton of chained clash/swing sounds.

RM SAMURAI
03-06-2013, 11:36 AM
Ok so
1. I need to bypass the motion sensor to keep the saber on all the time.
2. I could use NB to pump sound through my audio system. (For effects)
3. By leaving the saber power switch on I will keep the start up sequence but I will loose the shutdown sequence.
4. Do I need some kind of transister to keep from frying the sabers.

Silver Serpent
03-06-2013, 12:06 PM
1. That should work. The clash sensor is connected to the sound board at two points. Disconnect the sensor, then solder a wire connecting those two points together.
2. Yes, you can do that.
3. This is true.
4. Not if you're only giving 4.5v to each saber. (You can go a little over that. 5v is still in the safe range)

Unless you're willing to gut the sabers, purchase a LED sequencer, and rewire the connections to the LED string blades, this is probably going to be the best solution.

hedgehog1
03-06-2013, 02:07 PM
...Would it be possible to use a 1 PEX on all the sabers first string, 1 on the second and so on. Or is to much load for the Pex to handle

The PEX can handle more power then the total 8 FX sabers combined can draw. They do 1000ma easy, and 2000ma are not outside thier operating range. So they can handle the power. You don't have to use the PEX for this - Any silicon relay (no moving parts) with the proper trigger voltage will work, but the PEX are used and understood by forum members so you have more support for it here (plus it is a nicely implement design).

555 timer circuits are very common for many tasks. But as to how they are wired into an FX saber, I would have to study the schematic of one of the units. I have never owned an FX saber to have experimented with.

I hesitate to mention this, but there is one more option: Erv at Plector Labs also has a very new Crystal Focus board for LED segmented blades (CF6-LS). It has 7 mini-PEX units on board (to support up to 7 segments in a blade). He did a short production run of about 35 units. Only Experienced saber smiths bought them to test the new design. They are out of stock on purpose right now to allow the feedback and micro-code bug fixes to happen before a larger and more generally available run is done. Its biggest advantage is it is the sound board AND the PEX drivers all in one package, already integrated. Your biggest issue with this solution is: it is bleading edge technology. There are risks with being an early adopter.

hedgehog1
03-06-2013, 02:13 PM
1. That should work. The clash sensor is connected to the sound board at two points. Disconnect the sensor, then solder a wire connecting those two points together.
2. Yes, you can do that.
3. This is true.
4. Not if you're only giving 4.5v to each saber. (You can go a little over that. 5v is still in the safe range)

Unless you're willing to gut the sabers, purchase a LED sequencer, and rewire the connections to the LED string blades, this is probably going to be the best solution.

Starting with this solution might be best. With it, you get up and running now, and you can always go fancier later. For your situation, Silvers idea is really the best of both worlds. Quick implementation now, with the ability to get fancy later is you still feel the need.

RM SAMURAI
03-06-2013, 03:41 PM
Starting with this solution might be best. With it, you get up and running now, and you can always go fancier later. For your situation, Silvers idea is really the best of both worlds. Quick implementation now, with the ability to get fancy later is you still feel the need.

I believe you are right with this method I can always upgrade later.
That being said. What do you guys think would be the best method of hardwiring the sabers.

hedgehog1
03-06-2013, 06:59 PM
Remembering that I have not seen one of these style in person: Do these sabers have a 'removable' battery packs with AAA's in them? If so, then getting 'shore power' to them could be rather painless. How are the batteries installed in them?

RM SAMURAI
03-06-2013, 07:09 PM
Yes they have removable battery packs

hedgehog1
03-06-2013, 10:55 PM
OK - this makes it easier (relatively speaking).

Take each removable battery pack, put batteries in it and test the external contacts. Use a volt-meter to find the positive and negative contacts, and note them down. The batteries can now be removed from the pack. Next, find the two battery contacts that are the 'other end' of the packs contacts (where the first and last AAA's made contact). You may be able to see the obvious connection, or you may have to use the continuity tester of your volt-meter to find them. Once found, you now know where to solder the red and black wires of a JST connector (found here: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/JST-connectors-P360.aspx) to. The other end goes to the 4.5v to 5v DC power supply.

When you mount the sabers on the wall, 2 of the cat-6 cable conductors will also get a JST connector set - making those two cat-6 cable conductors a REALLY long JST extension.

This will allow you to test your Saber Battery Pack wiring on your work bench, and also allow you to put up and take down sabers from the sconces easily.

In the end, you will have 8 cat-6 cables, each with a JST connector on 2 wires (use the same colored pair, please). You then need to put 8 matching connectors on your power supply and away you go.

All additional saber modifications can be made later when you are ready.

RM SAMURAI
03-07-2013, 08:18 AM
8361
I was thinking of using something like this for my connections.

Do you recommend a certian DC adapter. I would like to get one that can drive them all at once. Not seperate ones for each saber.

Silver Serpent
03-07-2013, 09:52 AM
Just find one that can supply at least 3-4 amps of power (rough estimate). That should be enough to power a good number of sabers. If it has adjustable voltage, that's fine. Just be sure you can select a voltage close to 4.5v.

RM SAMURAI
03-07-2013, 07:34 PM
Ok thanks

RobInMN
03-25-2013, 02:37 PM
Just checked back since I posted my pictures, and found this thread.
The 2 minute time-out is the killer when trying to use the original boards. There appears to be a computer chip embedded on the back of each board under a dome of black plastic or some sort and the timeout appears to be controlled in there.
The thing with trying to "trick" the saber to stay on via the clash seonsor is that when it is triggered, the blade flashes, which could be distracting.
We tried poking around on the board for a while, trying to short different circuit pathways and never found a magical solution that would prevent the time-out, so that's when we decided to scrap using it.
We did go the very simple route and wire all the blade segments together, such that there is no sequence, all on, all off. We actually ran cat-6 in the wall incase we did come up with something to sequence them, but in the end, we did not go that route. If you can find a controller or build one, that would definately be a cooler solution. The company I was working with thought it might get a little pricy to start going the route of building some kind of controller to sequence them.
I know almost zilch about these NB's or what they do, don't do. If they help in that fashion, go fot it!
I am not 100% sure what all the components are, but the theater company did utilize a digital doorbell or something that plays WAVs wired to a speaker interrupt (like a PA that overrides Muzak in an office) that plays the startup & shutdown saber souds through the side pair of speakers. Somehow the "doorbell" thing is wired to the switch that turns the sabers on & off such that the startup sound is played when the switch turns on and the shutdown is played when they are turned off. As cool as this is when showing it off, it's actually kind of annoying on a day-to-day level. The theater company programmer said hes got a prgoramming update to turn that feature on & off. Had I planned ahead, I would have tried to capture the sounds from the sabers, but I didn't and just downloaded MP3s from the internet and converted them to WAV files. If you could isolate & digitize the on/off from each saber and play that back through an embedded speaker in each hilt, that would be really cool. Had we figured out a way to use the original boards, that would have been the result. As it is, it wasn't worth the added time & expense to go back and righ that up once the hilts were gutted.
Someone suggested replacing all the LEDs with 3-color ones to phase into a white light. I see where they are going with that, but in our lighting scheme, the lightsaber sconces are not used in "movie mode". For regular movie watching, we just have the ceiling rope light and the step rope light (safety) on for the ambient light, and that's plenty of light. If you wanted to do this with just the sabers and no other lighting, that may work, but you may still want a dimmer, they create more light than you might think. Also, they don't appear to create a color shift. Maybe that because I have 3 red, 2 green, & 2 blue (RGB!), but other than reflective surfaces, I don't feel that areas of the room are more red or blue or green depending on how close I am to the different blades. Seems counter-intuative to me.
I think that covers everything. If you have any questions about what we did/didn't do ask me, I subscribed to the thread.

RM SAMURAI
03-25-2013, 05:25 PM
I wanted to be able and keep the sequences. But this seams to be a major pain. I really didn't want to have to gut the sabers, but it is looking like this might be the cheapest. I have found a few places where people have mentioned using a ic timer. But they never explain how.

RM SAMURAI
06-20-2013, 06:04 AM
I am still hard at work on this.