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View Full Version : 5watt w/ sound and cooling fan



Dregan
09-18-2006, 02:35 PM
Hi all. My first post here. Let me begin by saying that over the last few days, I think I've reda every post on this forum, and wow, that's a lot of good info. Thanks for that.

As the title of this thread may lead one to believe, I'm building a 5w LUX with sound and a cooling fan, and I need a little help. I've sourced out a fan that will fit in the MHS, which runs on ~5v and draws .16a - and at it's less than an inch across, and 3/8th of an inch deep! I have a little background with electrical design, and with that, I've put together a solid idea (IMHO)

Here's my proposed wiring:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6736/saberwiringjf9.jpg

I'm using the 8xAA's so that I have a decent runtime. If I had to, I could go down to 4xAA or 6xAA and run 6v or 9v across the project without a problem (the beautiful part about the Puck drivers...)

I need some help in figuring out what size resistor to put in there - I've searched these forums and not found a amp rating for any of these soundboards. Anyone have an idea? If I can get an idea of the resistor size then I can put this thing together...

Thanks!!!

(BTY, Stryder, I'm not going to post where to get the fans, but it's a bulk order kind of place. If you want it to add to your lineup -hint hint-, I'll share with you if you want it. Send me a PM)

Dregan
09-18-2006, 02:49 PM
Actually, thumbing throught this catalog, I see another fan that runs 12v directly, has a much higher CFM, and would still fit in an MHS, so here's an alternative schematic...

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1883/saberwiring2vf2.jpg

Might be a little more efficient by moving the fan away from the resisted circuit. Also avoids sending that extra .16a to the SB, which is these things are as touchy as everyone makes them out to be, would be a good thing.

Any thoughts?

meiv4
09-18-2006, 03:09 PM
i havn't heard anything about the current draw on the boards either but another option would be just splice into the battery holder and use just 3 cells worth to power the sound. or you could get a vreg and use that instead of the resistor. Radio shack Catalog #: 276-1770 is a 5v one not sure if the board will take 5 v but someone else here with more experiance with them should be able to tell you.

Lord Maul
09-18-2006, 03:11 PM
here is where to find the resistor dregan
it is under wiring guides like 5 things down :wink:
http://corbinscomponents.com/

xwingband
09-18-2006, 03:15 PM
Go to six volts... saves space and most of the new hasbros will take that. Reminder: You were kind of dreaming with 8AA anyway since you can only fit 2 accross and not 4 in a square into an MHS.

Here's another note, I've always wanted to try a fan also. Corbin has said that they tend to break though. He said the motion of holding it makes the bearings go. Bummer...

Lord Maul
09-18-2006, 03:18 PM
also, people have done plenty of 5 watters with no fans. you would only need one if you were to have it on for long periods of time, or if you had a bad heatsink but you are using a mhs heatsink so you should be good

Dregan
09-18-2006, 03:42 PM
I'm also thinking that a fan would add a nice little tactile feel - a slight vibration in the grip.

As to the durability of the fan, there are no connected moving parts (how it's so small) - meaning no ball bearings. It uses a balanced magnetic suspension system. Relatively new thing (came to market like 2 years ago) and is a very clever design advancement.

Third, I was going to use a MHS holder, extension and sink tube adapter, and put the sink tube to fit the batteries. No idea for a pommel, yet.

Thanks for the lead Maul. I'm going to go do some math now...

xwingband
09-18-2006, 03:54 PM
That's interesting I'd still like to visit it, but I've been told most don't work well. Just letting you know the MHS stuff is enough of a heatsink and if you want tactile feedback a motor maybe a safer bet.

james3
09-18-2006, 05:50 PM
Listen man, Maul don't know what he is talking about. I have a few 5w setups in MHS hilts and you can run the thing untill the batteries die and it WILL NOT OVERHEAT!!!!

My white 5w is a standard MHS (pommel01/hilt01/bladeholder01) and it has run nonstop for hours with no problems. I did this setup for the sole purpose of seeing what the MHS could do. Yes after an hour or so you feel a little warmth on the hilt but the same applys if you hold the darn thing in your hand for an hour.

My blue 5w has just the extension added (pommel05/mh***tension/hilt01/bladeholder01) and the reason for that is that I am using the long 6aa battery holder and has nothing to do with heat. Again there is no worries.

Dregan you have some sweet plans going on there bud but the fan is not needed with the MHS. I know that there are doubters on here as this has been debated for a while so don't take my word for it, check out Ultra's stunt V.

Anyway, welcome to the boards dude! :D

Do-Clo
09-18-2006, 06:14 PM
Maul better know as private pyle, again with his foot in his mouth

Dregan
09-19-2006, 06:33 AM
well, I still can't find any power req's for the hasbro sound board. At this point, I'm going to plan going to use the above mentioned voltage regulator and hope I don't fry this board that I just spent $20 for. Trial by fire, I guess. Radio Shack also has a variable volatage regulator, from 1.2 - 37v, I think I'll actually try that set on 3v.

I think I am going to keep the fan in, at least as much for the tactile aspect as any other. I might have been tempted to go with a vibrating unit, and then dampen it down to where it felt more comfortable, (Stock have too much movement for my taste) - but this is a more efficient use of power design, and as my engineer friends would put it, more "elegant."

I ordered pretty much all the parts I'll need last night, but I forgot the color discs, so I'll be going back for those. I'll post a picture or two as soon as I get to putting it together.

On another note, anyone use a "ColdHeat" soldering pen? My fiancee' bought me one a while ago, and I haven't used for anything yet.

xwingband
09-19-2006, 07:20 AM
The coldheat ones might be good for breadboarding stuff but are often cripped by design. They need an electrical bridge to be gapped. If you are soldering something small it'll be hard to get it to turn on. Then for really big stuff like if you need to solder a ton of wires together like in a conversion it's kind of crippled too. A tradional iron will give you a lot less headaches. Get a nice one that heats up hot and fast and you'll be dandy.

The voltage regulator will do fine. Amperage doesn't matter as much as voltage to the boards, that's why you can't find anything on the subject. The voltage will fry it before you put too much juice threw it. Most can take 6V, but are touchy.

Dregan
09-19-2006, 08:11 AM
I have a 600w iron and a 450w pen, I just haven't used this ColdHeat thing yet. Well, haven't really taken it out of the box even...

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking across the baord when I was looking for a resistor - I'd need to know volts and amps used to figure how many ohms the resistor has to have, and using the regulator is a lot easier.

I'm really thinking I'm goinna get the variable one, and set it to 3v (same as the two C cells that originally powered it) and be done with it. That way I know I'm not running it hot, and won't fry.

james3
09-19-2006, 08:21 AM
Impressive equipment there Dregan. You a tech?

Dregan
09-19-2006, 08:33 AM
My job is... complicated. :wink:

But I do posess the skills and equipment of an electronics tech.

james3
09-19-2006, 08:41 AM
Well bud, as long as your not going to tell me ya work for Comcast I am good with whatever you do.

Dregan
09-19-2006, 02:34 PM
Oh, it's nothing like that, it's just difficult to explain. I'm a technical analyst, and by that, I mean that in an office of 200 people, I'm responsible for everything that has current running through it.

That means that in the same day, I can have a high-level meeting with a senior VP, have to go swap out a bad wire in a network closet, replace one of our VoIP phones, fix a query in a database, troubleshoot and move a desktop, walk an end-user through how to use a web-application that I didn't make, nor have admin to, but am somehow supposed to support it, and show someone how to use email.

Oh, and go out that night with said VP on the company credit card and get slightly more than lightly blitzed.

That was my Wednesday last week.

All of this for a massive $31k/yr. :roll:

Like I said, it's complicated. I would prefer, however, not to say who I work for, only that it's an BIG insurance company with 60,000 people worldwide.

What's your beef with Comcast? Aside from crappy customer service, but you get that everywhere, anymore... No reason to ask, just curious.

james3
09-19-2006, 03:15 PM
Sounds like you got the same deal as my wife. Hang in there though she is finally starting to get compensated nicely.

My grump with Comcast? Well, being as along with some of the other jobs here and there I did a little stint with Time Warner in FL when I was down there. Between that and all the years that I have "in the field" I tend to have issues with certain things. One of which is quality of service, both from a customer support standpoint and from getting what you pay for. Yes I know that phone support has gone to the dawgs these days so it is no surprise that when they started offering their combo unit(phone and isp all in one) that noone there knows what they are doing with the dang thing. Service goes out on a consistantly frustrating basis and being as THE ONLY reason that I have them is for internet it needs to work.

The big problem seems to be that for whatever reason I am really unable to figure out is that all around my area there are competeing companies as is expected from the 98 tcbill, but in my county there is no choice. They still manage to monopolize the service so they can charge what ever they want. It is quite a frustrating deal to say the least.

I am in favor of competition. I was in D.C. when the bill was coming up and helped anyway I could to get it passed by promoting and getting the public aware. All the companies have been using subcontractors for years anyways so it's not like anyone really lost anything.

JediMcD
09-19-2006, 09:03 PM
Here is an interesting site I found. I did not know this, but all voltage regulators are adjustable even if they don't say it. Here is a link to what I am talking about.

http://www.rason.org/Projects/regulator/regulator.htm

Just thought I would share since the 5volt one is cheaper anyway.

Dregan
09-19-2006, 10:22 PM
Yeah, Time Warner has the monopoly play set out up here, too. Fortunately, we aslo have satelite and DSL and Vonage, which bombines to be about $40/month cheaper than the TW stuff. The only downside is that the DSL is kinda slow in comparison...

The "all regulators are adjustable" thing looks neat, but I'm trying to preserve some linear integrity on my wiring design, plus I'd have to figure in the cost of the additional resistors. I've already got a few changes, but I'll post them all later, after I have a chance to get to Radio Shack, and I get the LED battery meter from Corbin. (I thought of a way to integrate that, as well. I'm skipping the rechargable batteries for now, but I may go back and redesign.)

GFORCE13
09-20-2006, 12:26 AM
dregan cool design as far as the ColdHeat Soldering Gun, it is a piece of junk I bought one and couldn't solder anything with it and finally gave it away, I will keep my Weller Pen and Gun. :D

JediMcD
09-20-2006, 06:18 AM
Dregan have you looked at what all you need to make that "adjustable voltage regulator" adjustable. It is basically the same stuff as the link I posted. I am not trying to change your plans at all. I just thougt it might save you a little money, and it would be interesting. :D Keep up the work, and make sure to post some pictures when you are done. :D

Dregan
09-20-2006, 09:17 AM
Yeah, there's a reason my ColdHeat thingy is still in the box. Now my suspicions are confirmed...

Thanks for the info on the regulators - Like I said, I haven't made it to Radio Shack (I'm going today after work) so I wasn't sure what to expect out of that little regulatoe - maybe a micro potentiameter on the back or something. Oh well, just as good. The LED bar like 5 volts, not so good on 3, so I think I'll go with just the 5v regulator

The sound board I'm using is the one Wal-Mart currently has, $20 ROTS Vader, with the switch right on the board (pic blatently borrowed from XWing)

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7505/hasbro0025wf.jpg

Think it'll take 5v without frying?

james3
09-20-2006, 10:01 AM
here's the one thing I still question on these boards. They were built to drive sound and a light bulb. Now we all admit the light part isn't much but if your not driving the light then all your mojo is dedicated to the sound. I don't have any Hasbro's running around right now that I could test this so I may just be smokin crack again. I would bet that they could take 5 volts though being as there are some 4.5v sabers in the stores. I would think that they would build these things actually over what they are rated.

JediMcD
09-20-2006, 11:15 AM
No there is no pot on the back. Just the regulator. Make sure to pick up the heatsink they sell for the regulators. They get really hot really fast. Well depending on how many volts you are delivering to it. I think I remember Corbin saying that it got very hot, and I believe that he was using a 7.2volt lithium ion pack.

Can you just tap the battery pack and get the volts you need? That would save you the voltage regulator. That is what I am doing with my 5watter with sound.

james3
09-20-2006, 11:16 AM
yup! always a good way to do it;)

Dregan
09-20-2006, 12:08 PM
I'm using a 12v system at first. But...

Here's my wiring diagram.

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8659/saberwiring3to5.jpg

I can use anything from 5v to 32v in. Heat on the voltage regulator isn't an issue because of the fan (see, I knew what I was doing. it happens once in a while... lol)

Using the lager (3.2 cfm) fan allows me to only need one for all the heat dissipation. Place it right over the battery pack, pop a few vent holes and voila.

I'll post a hilt schematic cutaway as soon as I draw one up.

james3
09-20-2006, 12:45 PM
I was just lookin over that and I have a question. I am guessing that you are referring to the buckpuck as mini puck but why the pot?

JediMcD
09-20-2006, 12:50 PM
Yeah rub it in my face why don't you. I never know what I am doing. :D jk

Are you planning on doing intake and exhaust holes for the fan? I also was wondering about the pot like James said.

Dregan
09-20-2006, 01:40 PM
Here's a cut-away:

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/5610/cutaway1ng4.jpg

Yes, there are vent holes.

The pot is there so that I can change blade intensity - either for photography purposes or to simulate the blade turning on and off (I'm using Corbin's film along with a diffuser rod)

This is (in addition to my first LED saber) kind of my attempt to build the ultimate saber. I might go back and build another with just light, for the ultimate in runtime.

Dregan
09-20-2006, 01:41 PM
I might also put a smal LED inside the vent holes, just to be over the top...

james3
09-20-2006, 02:56 PM
The led trick always makes a nice effect. I have done a couple like that with sink tube sabers. I think Vadeblade did it the ultimate though.

I look forward to seeing how the effect turns out with the poteniometer. I admit it's not me but I would like to see how it turns out nonetheless.

Have you an idea of about how long the hilt will be? All those goodies in there is going to need some space.

Again, cool design and nice layout.

Eclipse
09-29-2006, 12:37 AM
the fan idea could work great but also Tim should make a finned or slotted heat sink... made a crappy pic in my paint program to give an idea of what I mean... this is what it would look like from bottom or top view.. like I said its a crappy pic but I think you get the idea... make it for people who are going to opt to using a fan to help the cooling..
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g164/BlindinOrange/heatsink.jpg

hhhhhhhhhhhm it would also look pretty cool as a pommel as well... well that's just my thoughts on it.

james3
09-29-2006, 05:44 AM
If Tim makes another style of LED holder/heatsink I think the overwhelming majority are going to want something more in line with what Aavid makes or made. We have been begging for that for a long time now.

And if your using the MHS stuff his current feal is fine.

Dregan
09-29-2006, 09:04 AM
I'm not familiar with Aavid or his products, so maybe someone can show me a picture...

Anyway, Tim's current design can be modified easily to accomidate more airflow, and subsequently, more cooling, by cross-cutting the tubes protuding from the back of the led holder.

Here's my two-second MS Paint attempt at a visual...

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6029/heatsinkft2.png