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View Full Version : Your Battery Preference with a PC or CF



Machinimax
11-12-2011, 08:44 PM
If you have created a saber with a PC or CF, what brand of Li-Ion 14500 batteries do you like to use? In my case I'm making a CF saber with FoC and an illuminated yellow dot switch. I'm particularly looking for a battery with an appropriate discharge rate so I do not damage any of the circuitry. Will the unprotected 14500 Li-Ions that Tim sells be ok for my purposes? Thanks everybody.

cooky069
11-13-2011, 04:22 AM
I've found the ones tcss sell to be fine also the fact that I live in the uk means that unprotected cells ain't easy to come by. We seem to be stuck mainly with nimh. So I've gone with what's readily available

Skottsaber
11-13-2011, 07:20 AM
For FoC with a 10W (which I'm assuming you want to use) I would heavily recommend you use 18650 cells for the extra current discharge.

Takanis
11-13-2011, 09:45 AM
For FoC with a 10W (which I'm assuming you want to use) I would heavily recommend you use 18650 cells for the extra current discharge.

I agree with Skott; Two 18650s would be "optimal", but you might run into space issues. The 18650's are large.

Machinimax
11-13-2011, 10:13 AM
I agree with Skott; Two 18650s would be "optimal", but you might run into space issues. The 18650's are large.

Yes I heard about the possible space issue with the 18650s. I need to place my sound board, batteries, and switches in the 7in main body of my hilt. I'll assume that would give me cram-fu issues with those types of batteries?

Skottsaber
11-13-2011, 10:15 AM
Well a stick pack of 18650's is about 5.2 inches long, you can place your CF on top of the battery pack, leaving you over an inch of space for switches...

Machinimax
11-13-2011, 10:54 AM
Well a stick pack of 18650's is about 5.2 inches long, you can place your CF on top of the battery pack, leaving you over an inch of space for switches...


You know what, since it won't cost me an arm and leg, I may wind up buying a pair of 14500s and 18650s and see which work best with my saber. Thanks alot Skottsaber, you've been a great help.

FenderBender
11-14-2011, 08:23 AM
Keep in mind on a 7" hilt you really only have 5 7/8" of unfettered hilt. There is 5/8" on each end for threads and thread relief. The heatsink (if your emitter is attaching directly to the hilt section) extends approx. 1" down from the end of the hilt. This means that you have only 5 1/4" of space in the hilt section which is the exact length you'll take up with that 18650 stick pack. Can it be done? Sure. depends on what switches (you'll need two mind you) you use and how you mount them, where you are putting your recharge port, and the length of the battery pack also means that you lose a lot of space for the speaker mount and resonance. My suggestion, 14500's have worked fine for just about every project I've ever done, but if you want more head room for discharge rate, go with 14670s. They're the same length as 18650/70s but can fit side by side like 14500s and have more capacity and up to 3A discharge. This will leave you loads of room in the hilt to play with if you mount them side by side.

Machinimax
11-14-2011, 03:05 PM
Keep in mind on a 7" hilt you really only have 5 7/8" of unfettered hilt. There is 5/8" on each end for threads and thread relief. The heatsink (if your emitter is attaching directly to the hilt section) extends approx. 1" down from the end of the hilt. This means that you have only 5 1/4" of space in the hilt section which is the exact length you'll take up with that 18650 stick pack. Can it be done? Sure. depends on what switches (you'll need two mind you) you use and how you mount them, where you are putting your recharge port, and the length of the battery pack also means that you lose a lot of space for the speaker mount and resonance. My suggestion, 14500's have worked fine for just about every project I've ever done, but if you want more head room for discharge rate, go with 14670s. They're the same length as 18650/70s but can fit side by side like 14500s and have more capacity and up to 3A discharge. This will leave you loads of room in the hilt to play with if you mount them side by side.

Leave it to the saber building master hahaha! Ok then I'll take a look at the 14670s. So even some of your CFs with FoC have used 14500s before? Thanks alot!

FenderBender
11-14-2011, 03:36 PM
98% of my builds use 14500s. If I can fit more battery into a hilt, than I will, but more often than not the design/customer requires a smaller hilt/cramped install yadda yadda......

Machinimax
11-14-2011, 03:44 PM
98% of my builds use 14500s. If I can fit more battery into a hilt, than I will, but more often than not the design/customer requires a smaller hilt/cramped install yadda yadda......

Gotcha!

Machinimax
11-14-2011, 10:13 PM
One more question FenderBender, would the 14500s have enough of a discharge rate for an illuminated switch along with the FoC?

FenderBender
11-15-2011, 10:05 AM
Most newer 14500s have a 2A discharge rate. This will handle the board which takes about 300ma, the switch at 50ma, and your LED and FoC (if that's what you're doing).

Machinimax
11-15-2011, 10:27 AM
Most newer 14500s have a 2A discharge rate. This will handle the board which takes about 300ma, the switch at 50ma, and your LED and FoC (if that's what you're doing).

Yup that's exactly what I plan to do. Ok cool. Thanks again!!

Weaver
12-28-2011, 06:08 AM
Old thread, I know, but it seemed relevant.

I can't get my hands on the Trustfire 18650s. TCSS has been out for longer than I've been a member and the external site I used still hasn't seen fit to ship them. At this point I have to start thinking about an alternate power source. Nimh bad, I know, but they're readily available and decently cheap.

If I were to go with a 4-AA pack of Nimhs, would the board be damaged in any way by it? I know people have used them before; just wondering if there were any methods or secrets needed. The voltage isn't an issue at 6v out of the board's maximum 9v; just worried about current.

I can't go any further with this hobby until I have a power source.

Machinimax
12-28-2011, 07:33 AM
Old thread, I know, but it seemed relevant.
I can't get my hands on the Trustfire 18650s. TCSS has been out for longer than I've been a member and the external site I used still hasn't seen fit to ship them. At this point I have to start thinking about an alternate power source. Nimh bad, I know, but they're readily available and decently cheap.


Quite honestly, I would wait until you find the Li-Ions you want or until Tim re-stocks them. If they are still listed in the store, he will get more in stock. Don't take another route just because it's cheaper, especially since NiMH is not usually recommended.

Silver Serpent
12-28-2011, 07:40 AM
I don't recall any serious reasons for avoiding NiMH, other than the space they take up. Cram-fu is a big issue in most builds, but if you have plenty of room for a NiMH pack, then you shouldn't run into any trouble.

Skottsaber
12-28-2011, 08:03 AM
It's only CF you shouldn't use NiMH with, for PC you should be fine.

Zzan
12-28-2011, 09:07 AM
If I were to go with a 4-AA pack of Nimhs, would the board be damaged in any way by it? I know people have used them before; just wondering if there were any methods or secrets needed. The voltage isn't an issue at 6v out of the board's maximum 9v; just worried about current.

I can't go any further with this hobby until I have a power source.

4x nimh = 4.8v not 6v. nimh are only 1.2v not 1.5 like regular non-rechargable batteries.

Weaver
12-28-2011, 09:44 AM
Is there any way I could get away with a larger pack? The PCU says maximum input is 9v. If there were a resistor to take 8 NiMHs down to 9v, would it be "just as good"? May I also assume that the NiMHs will work when wired as a pack? I assume I'd need protection circuitry and a NiMH charger if I went that route.

For the record, I don't want to use NiMH at all. I just don't see any evidence that I'll ever get my hands on those 18650s and want to practice the knowledge I've gained before it fades away. I know, I know, the Jedi must learn patience. However we're past weeks and getting close to a month, waiting for the batteries to restock. It may have been longer than that; I don't know, since I've only recently joined the forum.

I just want to get busy. TCSS is moving great product and for a good cause. These replicas are the real deal. I want to get started.

Silver Serpent
12-28-2011, 09:53 AM
NiMH don't need a protection circuit. 6 of them in a pack is 7.2v, right at the sweet spot for the PC.

You may consider using the 14500s instead of the 18650s. They'll fit side-by-side in an MHS section without modification, and still give decent runtime.

They're also in stock. :) http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Li-Ion-14500-Rechargeable-AA-size-37V-800mAh-P480.aspx

Weaver
12-28-2011, 10:24 AM
Thanks for the heads-up. I suppose I'll try making these work, then. 14500s do need the PCB, correct? I also found out (too late, I might add) that there are two completely different PCBs. I'll have to look up which one I got with my last order and determine if it's the right one.

I suppose it wouldn't be that difficult to swap them out for a new pack if I leave room for it in my design.

EDIT: I got the PCB for the 3.7v battery instead of the 7.2v pack. ~facepalm~ I can't order the 7.2v, as it's out of stock. So, literally, no matter what I do I'm stuck.

Zzan
12-28-2011, 01:13 PM
Thanks for the heads-up. I suppose I'll try making these work, then. 14500s do need the PCB, correct? I also found out (too late, I might add) that there are two completely different PCBs. I'll have to look up which one I got with my last order and determine if it's the right one.

I suppose it wouldn't be that difficult to swap them out for a new pack if I leave room for it in my design.

EDIT: I got the PCB for the 3.7v battery instead of the 7.2v pack. ~facepalm~ I can't order the 7.2v, as it's out of stock. So, literally, no matter what I do I'm stuck.

Are you buying the protected cells or the unprotected cells?

Protected cells will not need a PCB. Each cell already has its own PCB. These SHOULD be removed from the hilt and charged in a charger like the one Tim sells in the store. It is not a good idea to make a pack out of these as when one PCB senses that its cell is charged it will cut current preventing the other cell from finishing its charge if it wasn't complete already. Which over time will result in reduced run time.

Un-Protected cells need the PCB. Which PCB you need depends on the number of cells you are using to make your pack.

So for protected cells just stick them in a AA battery pack but remove them from the saber and charge them in a stand alone charger when needed.
For un-protected cells get the proper PCB, wire up your pack (there is a tutorial stickied here somewhere) and you can use a recharge port to charge them without removing them from the hilt.

Weaver
12-28-2011, 04:37 PM
ZZan,

Protected cells are out of stock. I can get some unprotected, but the PCBs are out of stock. At this point, it's literally NiMH or nothing. That can change, later, when the Li-Ion stock is replenished, but we have no idea when that's going to happen.

I'm still in the R&D phase, here, so I don't have to worry about hilt space limitations yet. I don't necessarily need a power source for anything but testing circuits and making sure my connections are all right. My theory is to wire a JST to the battery inputs and swap out the pack when I can get some proper batteries. To that end, I'm sure that three 2xAA battery holders will work for the short-term. Voltage is nearly the same and the current shouldn't be anywhere near the board's maximum (2A, if I remember correctly).

At least that will allow me to continue hooking up components. Anything is better than watching them just sit on the shelf. As always, I will reread everything before I reach for my tools.

Lord Dottore Matto
12-28-2011, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the heads-up. I suppose I'll try making these work, then. 14500s do need the PCB, correct? I also found out (too late, I might add) that there are two completely different PCBs. I'll have to look up which one I got with my last order and determine if it's the right one.

I suppose it wouldn't be that difficult to swap them out for a new pack if I leave room for it in my design.

EDIT: I got the PCB for the 3.7v battery instead of the 7.2v pack. ~facepalm~ I can't order the 7.2v, as it's out of stock. So, literally, no matter what I do I'm stuck.

No you aren't. Just wire the two cells in // to the 3.7V PCB then you will have an 1800mAh 3.7V battery pack. Unless you are going w/a 10W LEDengin with FoC, you will run a PC just fine. For 10W/FoC, you would need the 7.4V.

Weaver
12-28-2011, 06:18 PM
Unless you are going w/a 10W LEDengin with FoC, you will run a PC just fine. For 10W/FoC, you would need the 7.4V.

That's actually exactly what I'm running. >_<

EDIT: I went back to the drawing board, convinced that I would never lay hands on a pair of 18650s, and tried to come up with some other way to power my components. NiMH seemed to be the only available option, so I went with those. While I was out, I picked up a combo pack of cheap aluminum flashlights; because I knew, immediately upon seeing them, what kind of battery compartment they use.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii81/BlessedWrath/Lightsabers001.jpg

For a bit less than $12US, I now have eight 3xAAA battery holders. There's no modding necessary; you just unscrew the tail cap and pull them out. I'm not sure what the OD is, but a bit of resourceful repurposing should yield some manner of PVC-type carrier that can be fitted to the inside of an MHS hilt. It may even fit with a custom chassis (if I can prevent the parts shorting against each other). The drawback is the length.

Six NiMH AAAs, mentioned above in a recommendation by another user, measures out at 7.75v on my voltmeter when series-stacked (end to end). They're easily extracted for charging, can be compatible with a carrier, and are available locally. Unless there's a problem with exceeding my board's input current, I think I'm ready to try wiring things up.

EDIT: These battery modules are extremely useful in containing a set of NiMHs. Before you solder the contacts, it is essential that you remove them (carefully) from the plastic housing first. The plastic will quickly overheat and melt otherwise. Be careful not to damage the plastic tab which holds the contacts in place, as you will need them to secure the contacts after soldering.

I wired these modules in series, with a JST quick-connect, by soldering a short bit of red wire between the positive of one module and the negative of the second. The positve JST wire, of course, goes to the positive contact on one module, and the negative on the negative contact of the second module.

These batteries measured 7.75v constant on my voltmeter, fresh out of the package. I have no doubt that they will perform adequately if fully charged. I am also exploring other options for AA size battery holders (for more runtime).

This post can be added to any tutorial threads concerning the making or modification of battery holders, if the mods or admins think it's worthwhile. I'm glad to share the information with anyone who can benefit from it. I will create a step-by-step tutorial if needed.

adamcritchlow
03-18-2012, 11:37 PM
Are you buying the protected cells or the unprotected cells?

Protected cells will not need a PCB. Each cell already has its own PCB. These SHOULD be removed from the hilt and charged in a charger like the one Tim sells in the store. It is not a good idea to make a pack out of these as when one PCB senses that its cell is charged it will cut current preventing the other cell from finishing its charge if it wasn't complete already. Which over time will result in reduced run time.

Un-Protected cells need the PCB. Which PCB you need depends on the number of cells you are using to make your pack.

So for protected cells just stick them in a AA battery pack but remove them from the saber and charge them in a stand alone charger when needed.
For un-protected cells get the proper PCB, wire up your pack (there is a tutorial stickied here somewhere) and you can use a recharge port to charge them without removing them from the hilt.

If each cell has its own PCB doesn't that mean the cut off voltage would be something like - 2.8v and 4.2v - but if you wire two batteries in series (increasing your voltage to 7.2-7.6v or there abouts) then isn't THAT voltage going through each PCB? and wouldn't that automatically trigger a disconnect? I don't know how the PCBS actually work, but it seems to me that one would need to do some advanced wiring, or use unprotected Li-ions with a 7.2 pcb (or the appropriate voltage). OR run everything at 3.7v.

const
04-09-2012, 07:05 PM
I've looked around, what kind of battery set up is ideal for a Full Power 10w build? Anyone have any idea what kind of run time http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/74v-Li-ion-1600mAh-14500-Battery-Pack-P725.aspx would offer?
The 18650 stick would be too large. Of course I've seen a few interesting set ups with 18650 side by sides, but that might be above my skill level.

Jay-gon Jinn
04-09-2012, 09:11 PM
I've looked around, what kind of battery set up is ideal for a Full Power 10w build? Anyone have any idea what kind of run time http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/74v-Li-ion-1600mAh-14500-Battery-Pack-P725.aspx would offer?
The 18650 stick would be too large. Of course I've seen a few interesting set ups with 18650 side by sides, but that might be above my skill level.You'd likely get a little over an hour with a full power set up using that battery pack. A side by side 18650 pack would work best if you need a longer run time. If you desing the saber properly, getting a pack into one is fairly easy, but you'd have to make the pack yourself.

const
04-10-2012, 03:01 AM
I think I'll go with the 14500 pack set up and just change it out as needed considering the nifty quick disconnects. Thanks Jay!