Boxes and Swithes

[Jedi_Knight_Zekk]

Hey all, another question. If I was using the box style 1, would the standard switch http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Push-onpush-off-switch-with-black-button--P40.aspx work or would I need a tactile switch? http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/SPST-Momentary-tactile-switch-P261.aspx I really need help on this one.

[TimeRender]

You really need to learn how to figure things out for yourself. Try reading the item description for box 1. Does it say anything about whether or not it is made for a particular switch? What does that tell you?

[Loachri MacTalabh]

In his defense, The description says;

Activation box style 1
The cards that we sell will fit the upper cutout.

This is designed to be mounted by two 6-32 screws and have the center hole for wires to pass through.
and the dimensions

2" long x .6" tall (from the outside edge) x .8" wide

[TimeRender]

I read the description myself before I posted. I don't see how that defends him. He asked which switch works with it. My point is that it isn't like the boxes for the AV switches. It doesn't "work" with a switch. If it did, it would clearly be labeled as such. Zekk has posted NUMEROUS threads asking questions like these. He needs to learn to ask HIMSELF the right questions or he'll never learn how to find his own answers.

[whenbearsreign]

I'm new to these forums but I have to say, is there a need to respond to a new user like this? If you know what thread he can find it in, give him a link and tell him how you found it. Building a saber, as I found out over the past few days, isn't an easy task and it's a lot of money that people don't want to waste on parts.

I understand flaming people requesting black blades, but all he needs is a "yes" or a "no". Just my two cents, I know my thread is in MHS is full of these kind of things buuuut I'm also on a bit of a deadline, lol.

[TimeRender]

Well first of all what he asked wasn't a "yes" or "no" question. Secondly, I never flamed him. I'm not trying to be rude to him, I'm trying to help him solve his own problems. Thirdly, he's not a new user. Fourthly, if a thread exists that answers his question, no one should have to point him to it. He should find it by searching. Fifthly, this isn't the sort of question that even OUGHT to require a thread since all of the information he needed was in the item description. Sixthly, don't go into a thread trying to insight an argument where there isn't one. If Zekk feels offended he can say so himself and I will apologize because it was NOT my intent.

[Jedi-Loreen]

Zekk is not brand new to these forums. He registered a year ago.

He's already been warned in the past about excessive post-whoring and starting too many threads.

He needs to take more time to read better and find his own answers.

[whenbearsreign]

Okay, I can understand if he has a previous history and past warnings so there could be some frustration behind responses like this. I thought he was a new member because I scrolled up and saw a "3" next to blog entries and thought it was the forum posts for some reason. I'm not trying to entice an argument, I just don't like seeing people getting bullied for having a question that they're having a hard time finding, especially when I'm trying to write an article on how great the community is, lol. I will be honest, though. I had a hard time finding the answer to his question myself (I've only been here a few days so that might be why) so I don't believe his question is completely irrelevant. I just find it easier to link someone to what they're looking for than it is to get in an argument with someone who's just asking for help. /soapbox

[TimeRender]

I just find it easier to link someone to what they're looking for than it is to get in an argument with someone who's just asking for help. /soapbox

No one was arguing, and if you look at my first post in this thread you will see that I did tell him EXACTLY where to look. I didn't need to link because he's already BEEN to the product page. Let's not start an argument now over it, and let's try not to derail Zekk's thread any more than it already has been.

Zekk, a lot of the parts in the store aren't designed to be used in ONE particular way. This box is a good example. It has a hole for wires if you choose to install a switch, but it wasn't actually made to hold any switch in place. A switch could be installed on an aluminum plate, or a hole could be drilled in the side of the box, or a slide switch could be installed in the box to be connected to one of the cards sold in the store, or you could do just about anything else you can think of. Do you WANT to use a particular switch? Do you know what you want the finished piece to look like? If you have SPECIFIC questions about the dimensions of a particular switch or something similar we will be happy to help you, but the question you asked won't yield a good result because you haven't really provided enough information or, it would seem, put enough thought into it yourself.

[Jedi_Knight_Zekk]

Okay, I can understand if he has a previous history and past warnings so there could be some frustration behind responses like this. I thought he was a new member because I scrolled up and saw a "3" next to blog entries and thought it was the forum posts for some reason. I'm not trying to entice an argument, I just don't like seeing people getting bullied for having a question that they're having a hard time finding, especially when I'm trying to write an article on how great the community is, lol. I will be honest, though. I had a hard time finding the answer to his question myself (I've only been here a few days so that might be why) so I don't believe his question is completely irrelevant. I just find it easier to link someone to what they're looking for than it is to get in an argument with someone who's just asking for help. /soapbox

Thanks for your support, I really appreciate it. However, yes I may have many questions, but isn't that part of this hobby? Asking questions until you get it right? I don't mean to be a pain but you're kind of being a little hypocritical when you do that! And like whenbearsreign said, it's kind of anti-productive to start such an arguement over a simple question when he's trying to write an article about how informative and supportive I KNOW this forum really is... So I apologize, but I stand by the fact that I really wasn't being totally outlandish in asking a question.

EDIT: I didnt read TimeRender's last post in time, must have posted same time. I looked at the item (Box style 1) and it did NOT say which switch it was meant (as you said it being designed for one part) and it didn't give me information that I understood to be a directory to a specific part. So I don't really know what to do, hense the question in the first place.

EDIT2: I would like to use either the basic switch in the Seoul P4 kit, or the mini tactile switch, but the whole reason for needing information was because i didn't know if the standard switch would fit inside the box, which is why i asked if I need a tactile switch. I was trying to be as specific as possible, so I apologize for not stating that in my original post, but that is why I posted, was to find out if I had to buy the tac tyile switch because the other would not fit.

[TimeRender]

No, that's pretty much the OPPOSITE of what I said... Really Zekk I am trying to help you.

[Jedi_Knight_Zekk]

I edited the post, is that what you were refering to? I tryed to fix my question so that you could understand what I meant.

[TimeRender]

No Zekk. I am responding to what you said in edit 1. I NEVER said that box1 was intended to be used a particular way. I said the exact opposite. It is NOT intended to be used with a particular part. It is intended to be used however you want to use it.

In response to edit 2, you should try figuring out what the switches dimensions are. Once you know this, you will know whether or not a particular switch will fit inside that box. If you want I can go measure the black switch in a few minutes and give you the dimensions. Then compare those with the dimensions of the box and you will have your answer. THAT is how you solve a problem, Zekk.

[Jedi-Loreen]

That box isn't really meant to have a switch in it, like the other boxes are. But you can put one in it, if you want to figure out what type of switch you want to use, and where you want to put it. That hole is only for passing wires through it, if you choose to put in a switch, as TimeRender has already stated.

So that hole isn't meant to hold a switch. And how would you activate it, if it was, with a card in the slot? These are things to think about before you ask your questions.

[TimeRender]

The switch measures 5/8" long, 9/16" wide, the base is 5/16" tall, it has a threaded section that is 3/8" tall, and the overall height is 15/16". The box has a width of .8", but you can tell from the picture that nearly half of this is wall thickness. This means that the switch will not fit in the box. The mini tac switches are small enough, but you need to find a way to mount them. You still haven't expressed what you want to do or how you want the final piece to work. Give us more detail and we can assist you, although I suspect that if you take the time to actually CONSIDER what you want to do in more detail you will probably not need anyone's help any longer.

Please Zekk, don't just look at my answers. THINK about my answers. If you become familiar with the process of problem solving, you won't NEED to post so many silly questions.

[Jedi_Knight_Zekk]

The switch measures 5/8" long, 9/16" wide, the base is 5/16" tall, it has a threaded section that is 3/8" tall, and the overall height is 15/16". The box has a width of .8", but you can tell from the picture that nearly half of this is wall thickness. This means that the switch will not fit in the box. The mini tac switches are small enough, but you need to find a way to mount them. You still haven't expressed what you want to do or how you want the final piece to work. Give us more detail and we can assist you, although I suspect that if you take the time to actually CONSIDER what you want to do in more detail you will probably not need anyone's help any longer.

Please Zekk, don't just look at my answers. THINK about my answers. If you become familiar with the process of problem solving, you won't NEED to post so many silly questions.

Thanks for the dimmensions, I wouldn't have known where to find those or how to calculate them. Living in Canada, I don't know the imperial system with inches, etc. I often need help with that. However to answer your question, how I want the saber to operate is this:
The "Activation Box" with do just that. It will house the switch (which will now be the mini tactile probably in the side of the box via drilling a hole slightly bigger than the red part of the button.) and the battery setup will be near the choke, with the LED above that. I will be putting in a soundboard, most likely an Econo board as a place holder until I can afford a Petit Crouton or Crystal Focus. I will be using a Seoul P4 Green. And with the MHS parts, that will be Verndari (Icelandic for Protector).

[TimeRender]

Ok, well already I can tell you that this is not a great idea. The wall thickness of the box is greater than the height of the button on the tac switch you linked to. This means that you would have to use a toothpick or something to turn your saber on and off. And you still haven't explained how you planned on mounting the switch in the box in the first place. Now, if you use THIS switch...

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/SPST-Momentary-tactile-switch-P285.aspx

Then you should be ok. Note that this switch is not in stock. Also be sure you check to see which sort of switch you need for the econo board. Personally I've never used one, so I don't know if it requires a momentary or a latching switch. These mini tacs are momentary.

[Jedi_Knight_Zekk]

Thanks for the switch link and to answer the Econo board question. Most Econo boards (from what I've seen) use momentary switches. Although if I'm wrong I'm sure someone like Rhyen (who did a tutorial on it) would correct me right quick. And to answer you question, I was planning on mounting the box over top of the switch hole on a main body , then the other two holes with two 6-32 Socket Head Cap Screws through the other two holes. then I would drill a small hole for the switch's button to fit through with some sort of mount on the back inside the box.

[TimeRender]

That tells me WHERE you wanted to mount the switch, but not HOW. What is it going to be mounted to?

Edit: No, I misread what you said, but you're still missing the point. I'm not asking you where you want to mount the activation box. I don't care about that. I'm asking you where and how you are mounting the SWITCH.

[whenbearsreign]

Good info to know if I ever decide to go with a box. Do you know which econo board you're going with? I saw a really amazing tutorial on the Hasbo 2010 Obi Wan Clone Wars board, I'd recommend it since there's so much great info.

http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?10288-2010-Electronic-Lightsaber-w-DVD-Tutorial

[Jedi_Knight_Zekk]

That tells me WHERE you wanted to mount the switch, but not HOW. What is it going to be mounted to?

Edit: No, I misread what you said, but you're still missing the point. I'm not asking you where you want to mount the activation box. I don't care about that. I'm asking you where and how you are mounting the SWITCH. I don't quite understand. I will mount the switch through a hole in the side of the box. I'm not sure how though. What would you recommend?

[KuroChou]

He's asking how you're going to secure the switch inside the box, so it actually makes contact when you press it, and doesn't just get pushed inside. I'm really not sure how much clearer he could have put it.

[TimeRender]

Ok... The black switches, the AV switches, and the little red and black momentary switches are examples of what are called panel mount switches. This means that they are threaded and meant to be held in place by a nut. All you need to secure a panel mount switch is a hole of the correct size and enough room for the nut. The mini tac switches are NOT panel mount. That should have been obvious just by looking at them. This means you physically have to install them on something.

[Darth Nater]

I'm not trying to entice an argument, I just don't like seeing people getting bullied for having a question that they're having a hard time finding, especially when I'm trying to write an article on how great the community is, lol. I will be honest, though. I had a hard time finding the answer to his question myself (I've only been here a few days so that might be why) so I don't believe his question is completely irrelevant. I just find it easier to link someone to what they're looking for than it is to get in an argument with someone who's just asking for help. /soapbox

I've got to agree with just about everything this guy said. I've lurked and read continuously on this forum for the past month just learning about different things, and I swear I've never seen a more bullying, rude, sarcastic for no reason group of people in a forum in my life. Including old mid-90's uncensored anything goes message boards. Its like half the people on here are just sitting back waiting for a chance to try and make some guy with a question look or feel stupid. Over making a fake movie prop out of plastic and aluminum. Get real. Many times the moderators are no better than anyone else. The general mood is just ridiculous. I don't get it myself. ATV forums, gun forums, car forums, whatever it may be, I've never in my life had any trouble finding information. I probably have like 2-3 posts total here because there is no use in asking a question when mostly all that you are going to get out of it is a bunch of rude "you need to learn how to read better" or "umm.. its called the SEARCH feature, get to know it". Well no joke there Hitler, after 3 hours of searching for something, there comes a time that you might actually decide to ask somebody. A few of you might take a good look at yourselves and some of the waste of time responses that you post back to some poor guy asking a simple question. I read all this garbage about wasted posts, but I guarantee there are more wasted posts telling somebody to do a search than there are anything else. Sorry to all for the rant, but for crying out loud, when you read for 2 hours at a time through searched topics and every other topic you go into has somebody ripping a guy for asking a question that has already been asked, its gets pretty old.

[TimeRender]

Well I'm glad you got that off your chest. Maybe I should use the search feature to figure out how any of that actually helped Zekk with his problem. In fact, it helped him even less than telling him to search for an answer, which I should point out ISN'T what I told him. He already KNEW where to find the answers he needed, he just needed to learn how to use that information. I should also mention that by guiding him toward figuring out his problems for himself, I am doing him a greater service than someone who just hands him the answer. I might also point out that I went digging around in my basement for a switch and a ruler so I could give him the dimensions he needed, when all you did was post a snarky rant. You win. I'm a jerk.

[Caine Drathul]

LOL, this thread was a great read.

Dude, Zekk:

1. Drill a hole on the side of the box big enough to fit the momentary tactile switch in.
2. Make small shim to hold the box in place. Could be anything you like as long as it's small enough.
3. Hot glue said shim and switch in place. Voila!
4. Yes, econo boards use momentary switches.

[Wong Yoon Wei]

Maybe topic starter wants to make a report to Tim because Tim actually directs his customers for Q&A here and I am sure he doesn't appreciate his customers being treated like fools (Tim actually warned us about this a few months ago cause it got so bad).

The search engine here is not the easiest to use and the question of installing switches in control boxes has never really been addressed properly.

Lots of sabersmith did it in their builds but no one actually writes a comprehensive tutorial on how to do it. I made the same mistake of ordering Push on/push off switch with black button thinking it will fit into the box only to realized that it doesn't fit and there wasn't any dimensions info to tell me otherwise.

I am going to do what shoukd have done in the first page instead of generating three pages of rubbish.

Judging by the size of the control box, the momentary tactile switch should fit in nicely. However you will need to make some kind of chassis to mount the switch and adjust the height accordingly until you could activate the momentary switch by just pressing on your circuit card. I believe this is how LDM did the power on and aux switch on his Luke.

I am also going to make a tutorial on how to install a momentary tactile switch in the control boxes as soon as I get enough funds to upgrade my V2. I hope it will be stickied and we can avoid such hostility in the future when the same issue is ever brought up again.

A role of a teacher is not to destroy someone's aspiration but to nurture it and make it grow. What I see is a lot of people getting scared away from this hobby before they even start because they are led to believe that it is something very hard that only a select elite few will have the knowledge and skills to do so.

I too would have gave up at building my first saber if it weren't for the unselfish help from one of the very few really helpful members here.

[TimeRender]

OK, Wong... I've already said it a few times but I'll say it again. I DIDN'T TELL HIM TO SEARCH!!! He already KNEW where the relevant information was. He just wasn't putting it together. As for your "help" on the matter, THAT ISN'T WHAT ZEKK WANTS TO DO!!! If you READ the thread you would know that. He wants to mount the switch on the SIDE of the box, not the TOP. He doesn't WANT to activate it with the circuit card. Finally, I wasn't trying to destroy his aspirations or anything NEARLY that melodramatic. I was trying to demonstrate a method of ANALYZING a problem so that one might become SELF SUFFICIENT. Teaching a person how to THINK FOR ONE'S SELF is better than simply giving them the answer every time they get confused. But way to go. By completely missing the mark you have served to even FURTHER derail the thread and confuse the issue.

Edit: I quit. Zekk, I've been willing to help you all along, I feel I HAVE helped you, and I will continue to help you if you need it. Just PM me. If I post any more here someone else who hasn't actually read the thread will just chastise me for being a big fat jerk.

[DarthPawley]

EDIT
Sorry, I posted out of frustration. Less snark all round would be good, and so I'm taking my own advice.

[whenbearsreign]

Well, now I feel like an ass because now the flame war continues. Darth Nater, I said what I had to say and if you agree with me, leave it at that. Zekk is getting his question answered (with some hiccups) so I really don't think there's reason to bring the point I made two pages ago back up. If you have a general problem with how people conduct themselves on a forum, the rule of thumb is to contact a moderator. I don't mean to sound like I'm being an ass, it's just that I don't think that the flaming and arguments needs any further discussion, at least not in this thread.

TimeRender, I completely agree in the "teach a man to fish" mentality but as I mentioned in my previous thread (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?13272-Ask-a-Jedi-is-doing-an-Article-on-TCSS-need-YOUR-help/page2):


To the mods, I do want to recommend that you maybe compile or make a thread in a dedicated forum that has direct links to all the useful stickies because I want to be able to link my readers to one go-to forum for all their saber-building needs. Just a recommendation. Regardless, thank you again to everyone who is responding to this thread, you're all doing so much to help!

The forums can be confusing and intimidating if you're not very used to using them, especially when starting a skilled and expensive hobby like this. This would help a lot of people actually understand exactly what they need to make a saber. I haven't built mine yet but I have compiled a list of what I need (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?13280-Part-Check-(Getting-ready-for-purchase)). I looked at every single "Part Check" thread from the past 6 months to make sure I had everything I could possibly think of needing before I made my post and I'm still getting recommendations for changes. With the article I'm writing for Ask a Jedi, my goal is to get a lot of new users to be using these forums to build their own sabers. The issue is that my reputation is on the line if I say, "These forums are always willing to help and have easy to find guides" when from my experience, a lot of stuff is hard to find and based on what a few threads I've seen, a lot of people are getting belittled for their questions. I'd like to avoid that by requiring less need of skilled builders' input (so you don't get frustrated by hearing the same questions 400 times) and less digging in random places to find anything.

A lot of what I noticed is every single forum has various stickies that could or may not be useful as a tutorial, but the tutorial forums should be used exclusively for this. I know this is something I should probably recommend directly to a mod, but I guess I just want to explain what I'm trying to do for AaJ and for TCSS. When I finish this project, I'm sure I'll have a lot more insight into helping people with their builds and I plan on using it. Don't think of me as the kind of guy who uses the forums for what I need then drops it, lol.

[TimeRender]

I can agree that the stickies are getting a bit out of date, and a new "Everything you need to know and then some" sort of tutorial would be useful, but the truth is that there are just too many different parts and techniques to document ALL of them in an easily accessible way. I also realize that accurate dimensions for every store part are not available. This is something that should and CAN be remedied, but it will take a lot of time and Tim is a very busy man. I can also agree that the search feature isn't everything it's cracked up to be. The only way to make searching more efficient would be to delete ALL of the posts, start over from scratch with some really amazing stickied tutorials, and enforce VERY strict rules concerning what sort of information and tags can be used on each of the subforums. That's not likely going to happen. All of this is why it is SO important for people to be able to figure things out for themselves.

[Wong Yoon Wei]

OK, Wong... I've already said it a few times but I'll say it again. I DIDN'T TELL HIM TO SEARCH!!! He already KNEW where the relevant information was. He just wasn't putting it together. As for your "help" on the matter, THAT ISN'T WHAT ZEKK WANTS TO DO!!! If you READ the thread you would know that. He wants to mount the switch on the SIDE of the box, not the TOP. He doesn't WANT to activate it with the circuit card. Finally, I wasn't trying to destroy his aspirations or anything NEARLY that melodramatic. I was trying to demonstrate a method of ANALYZING a problem so that one might become SELF SUFFICIENT. Teaching a person how to THINK FOR ONE'S SELF is better than simply giving them the answer every time they get confused. But way to go. By completely missing the mark you have served to even FURTHER derail the thread and confuse the issue.

Edit: I quit. Zekk, I've been willing to help you all along, I feel I HAVE helped you, and I will continue to help you if you need it. Just PM me. If I post any more here someone else who hasn't actually read the thread will just chastise me for being a big fat jerk.

Now you are being melodramatic. The post wasn't exactly aimed at anyone in particular but you sure feel particular slighted by it. It was meant to be a general post about how newbs are being treated.

As for how he wants to mount the switch, I only really read the first page before skipping to the last page. Point is, he now has another option to mount the switch. I am all in for teach a man to fish instead of giving him the fish but what we are currently doing here is not really teaching him but more like giving him a stick and expect him to magically know how to fish with that stick.

[TimeRender]

If you want to make general remarks about the way some users are treated, start your own thread. Complaining about it here implies that you feel it is the way this PARTICULAR user was treated, and that's simply not the case. Also, if you are going to criticize people for not helping, you should take the time to actually READ the thread and see if you are correct. That's especially important when you say such things as "I am going to do what shoukd have done in the first page instead of generating three pages of rubbish."

[whenbearsreign]

TimeRender, you've given him sound advice but Zekk isn't communicating exactly what he wants so this whole thing is now a bitchfest and it really shouldn't have gotten this out of hand. I understand the frustration of having to answer the same question over and over but overall it's most likely a communication error. As a recommendation, you guys should get in contact with each other in some form of VOIP or Ventrilo chat. You guys are more than welcome to use my vent server if you don't have one that way it's not a back and forth encounter and more of a discussion to help you guys get on the same page.

copper.typefrag.com
26146
No Password

But aside from that, lets get back on topic. I think this is one of the reasons I won't use a box unless it's strictly aesthetic, it just seems very difficult to me to make it functional. Even with that momentary switch which seems to stick out a little further than the card sits, it seems like just turning it off and on would damage the card. I'm probably completely wrong 'cause I've never seen either in person, just from what I can tell by eyeballing it.

[Jedi_Knight_Zekk]

LOL, this thread was a great read.

Dude, Zekk:

1. Drill a hole on the side of the box big enough to fit the momentary tactile switch in.
2. Make small shim to hold the box in place. Could be anything you like as long as it's small enough.
3. Hot glue said shim and switch in place. Voila!
4. Yes, econo boards use momentary switches.

Haven't read all the other posts yet, but I wanted to give Caine a huge thanks for that info, I think he knew exactly what i was needing help with and answered it, and proved me right on something!

EDIT: TO END THIS FLAME WAR! I have PMd TimeRender and I beleive that he actually DID help me along the way! That being said, yes there was some back and forth that was a little on the bullying side, but I am the type of person who is unfaised by it and moves on. I would like ti say THANK YOU to all those who came to my defense (not that I needed it). HOWEVER, I want nothing else than to see this flame war STOP on both sides so that we really can be the AWESOME forum and group of people that I know we are. I have resolved the issue, thank you all of you, now let's JUST BE FRIENDS ALREADY!!!!! {off my soap box}

[Jedi-Loreen]

Since this thread seems to have served it's purpose, and is becoming a flame fest, it is now locked.