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HiddenMooCow
08-08-2006, 11:40 AM
I just have a theory that you guys can run with or completely rip on. The idea is to get a white LED saber but modify the blade (with paint or whatever) so it has a black core when lit up, but the walls of the blade will glow white like normal creating a black blade but it is still seeable at night and day. Again, just a theory you can make changes with or totally rip on. [:)]

xwingband
08-08-2006, 12:02 PM
Nope... it won't work. There was a topic on this in Misc... black doesn't exist as it's the absence of light. A black core would be impossible too as the corona would cover it up.

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HiddenMooCow
08-08-2006, 12:07 PM
Well, what if you had the regular white saber but on the blade you put like a black rod in the middle but left a gap in between the rod and the inner wall allowing the white light to wrap around the black rod?

Do-Clo
08-08-2006, 12:12 PM
Then you would end up with a black rod with a light shining on it, black gives off no light, it only reflects light if the surface is polished.

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HiddenMooCow
08-08-2006, 12:14 PM
hmm, but do you see what I'm trying to suggest with the white outer layer and black core?

xwingband
08-08-2006, 12:21 PM
Maybe in games or a movie that'd be possible, but it real life that just doesn't work. Any rod would be bathed in the color of the LED and not be seen unless you made it intentionally so that it wasn't even lighting. Even then you'd only see the rod at the end of the blade. It'd be like the EL and LED combo... no workie.

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HiddenMooCow
08-08-2006, 12:24 PM
Well, thanks anyways but are you sure that if you had a half inch diameter black rod through the center of the blade and lit it up that you wouldn't see a major dark area in the center?

Do-Clo
08-08-2006, 12:36 PM
Sorry it will not produce the effect that you want.[V][xx(]

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desertscorpion
08-08-2006, 01:13 PM
I have to disagree with the others, to some degree, and say that this is the only way to have a "black" blade or silver or off color. It'd really be a blade within a blade, though, and I've got a feeling that it still wouldn't be as dark as you hope. You'd probably have to leave a very thin gap for the light or it'd probably be washed out like xwing is trying to say. Plus, it'd probably be very evident that it's a blade within a blade. It probably wouldn't look like a "lightsaber" per se. But, it would have a black core. I say go for it, but it seems like it'd be a son of a gun to pull of mechanically.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by HiddenMooCow

I just have a theory that you guys can run with or completely rip on. The idea is to get a white LED saber but modify the blade (with paint or whatever) so it has a black core when lit up, but the walls of the blade will glow white like normal creating a black blade but it is still seeable at night and day. Again, just a theory you can make changes with or totally rip on. [:)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Do-Clo
08-08-2006, 01:27 PM
The black core may show some but I am afraid the effect would be poor at best, plus finding a way to suspend the black rod in the blade without reducing the outer layer of light.

<center>http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f217/Do-Clo/DoCloSig.jpg</center>
<center><font color="red"><font size="4"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Darth Technous Sith Lord</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size4"></font id="red"></center>
<center><font color="red"><font size="4"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Give yourself to the Dark Side</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size4"></font id="red"></center>

HiddenMooCow
08-08-2006, 01:37 PM
Thanks for the information on what would and would not work. I cannot actually try the theory on account that the saber I am ordering is not white but maybe I could try it with a different color like the blue or royal blue I'm getting.

987654321a
08-08-2006, 03:20 PM
i know how to have a black blade and ive tried it before and it works, get an MR, smack it against a metal pole and there you go, a black saber

I DONT KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!....LOUD NOISES!!!
www.starwarscustoms.bravehost.com http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/9995/sithlord6jk8cr.png

HiddenMooCow
08-08-2006, 03:32 PM
Oh My Gawd!!!!!

Nightwing
08-08-2006, 04:00 PM
Heh heh, nice one, Countdown!

Drewbacca
08-08-2006, 06:58 PM
White is the absence of color, therefore white is brighter.

Black is every color, therefore it takes more light to illuminate.

Theoretically, if you had a bright enough light, you COULD make a solid black blade...however it would look pretty shiesty. Mainly because the light would push through the weakest black areas, which would look like splotches.

Color theory 101 woot...art college blows.

________________________________
"That's 'cause droids don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that."

xwingband
08-08-2006, 07:11 PM
Too bad color theory as it applies to print is totally different from light mixing... because it's totally backwards from what you just said.

White is ALL of the colors Red, Green, and Blue. That's the point of the RGB LED, you can mix ANY color.

Black is the absence of any light. However color mixing in painting is RYB (primaries) based... print is CYMK (cyan, yellow, magenta, with a black supplement).

My architecture prof also had an art degree from Princeton and studied under Albers (of color theory fame).[;)]

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Firebird21
08-08-2006, 07:13 PM
Thank you xwing...


That was making my head hurt. http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_explode.gif

Have you read your Thread Index (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/sabers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=577) today?
FAQ (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/sabers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=552)
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sabre.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/auto/car-smiley-032.gif Official Designated TCSS Jester! http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrinjackbox.gif

HiddenMooCow
08-08-2006, 07:17 PM
umm, xwing and drewbacca, did you read what we were first talking about (not trying to insult you)? We were talking about if we could simply get the white luxeon to illuminate the outside of the rod of black in the core, like lighting up the background but have a huge missing middle. Sorry, it's hard to explain just read the above ones and I'm not trying to be insultive.

987654321a
08-08-2006, 07:18 PM
sorry to burst your bubble but a black blade would be cool and all but its impossible

I DONT KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!....LOUD NOISES!!!
www.starwarscustoms.bravehost.com http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/9995/sithlord6jk8cr.png

xwingband
08-08-2006, 07:28 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by HiddenMooCow

umm, xwing and drewbacca, did you read what we were first talking about (not trying to insult you)? We were talking about if we could simply get the white luxeon to illuminate the outside of the rod of black in the core, like lighting up the background but have a huge missing middle. Sorry, it's hard to explain just read the above ones and I'm not trying to be insultive.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'm not insulted. Like I said before, it won't work. That would cover up the black rod and at BEST you'd see the rod torwards the end of the blade.

It's just like the EL and LED combo Gelu made. He used the ring from a hasbro color changer and put it around an inner EL core of white. It washed out the EL and only showed the LED color, but towards the tip the EL shown through completely.

Firebird, most realize the differences when you give examples.
Like light RGB, our LEDs
Paint RYB, the good old primary colors we were taught in school
Print CYMK, look at your printers cartridges

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bushidobaggins
08-08-2006, 10:23 PM
It would work as a 2 dimensional picture on photoshop because you're looking at only one 'side' of the blade. In a 3 dimensional world however, the light covers everything.

HiddenMooCow
08-09-2006, 08:32 AM
Hmm, I'd give it about 3 more times.

Beatboxer
08-09-2006, 11:59 AM
This topic has been stated a dead horse but maybe if you make an inner core and cover it with a black 'reflectice' material, that might produce the effect of a black core with a lil white light around it. Not sure how it would look but it's just a thought.

The inner tube or core would be like 3/4 inch the outer tube would be like an inch to allow the led light to shine up and around the core...

To illustrate such a blade it would be cool to have it smoking or steaming like dry ice I think.

HiddenMooCow
08-09-2006, 12:20 PM
I'll give this a try but I don't know if I'm gettin white, but a colored LED may produce similar results anyway

luis rojas
08-09-2006, 02:10 PM
This topic makes me think in one guy in particular. I met him when a was leading a big project at work. He used to work as an advisor for food industries. If you ask him, for example if a notebook can be eaten, he wouldnīt say no. He would say "let me think about it" Then the next day he will give you a document with all the nutrition information of the paper, how can you cook it and what will happen to every part of your body if you eat it...but he never, ever would say "no, it canīt be done"

If you think about the ATM's. They have a screen that can only be seen by certain point of view (like Obi told Luke when he figured out that Vader was his father). so if you have some material like the atm's screens that let pass the light only when it passes by certain angle and you put it around the difuser, you will have your black blade..it's simple.. look at the drawing...
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/817/reflectiveox3.jpg

HiddenMooCow
08-09-2006, 02:24 PM
But I cannot comprehend this thing you call "drawing". It is to much for me! But you have to remember that a saber is in the shape of a holo cynlinder and the whole concept will be different because a saber looks that saber no matter how you turn it(unless you turn it to where you can only see the tip). So I don't know how your theory would work out. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

xwingband
08-09-2006, 02:43 PM
I never said it couldn't be done... just that as he stated it wouldn't really work. Blocking the light is a better idea, but it'd make a lighter core rather than a "black" one. There is still the ring of light around.

I know what lius is thinking off. I think that might get the effect, but that film is expensive. It'd only work on a off-center look. If you looked straight at it it should look normal. Better but I think price is much more of a problem there. My brain kind of hurts thinking of it... like I was thinking of one-way film... gah, that wracks the brain.

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luis rojas
08-09-2006, 03:00 PM
With a simple filter film (sun shades, windows,etc) you can get light in the center of the blade (visible angle) and dark in the outside. Look at the other drawing.
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7072/reflective2rv0.jpg

I think that you want the opposite (light in the outside and black in the inside) if you could get a film let the light out in the outside and it doesnt in the middle (some sort of negative filter) you could have your black blade.

http://www.subir-imagenes.com/subir_imagen/c40df02d12.gif

987654321a
08-09-2006, 03:04 PM
still doesnt make any sense to me at least.

I DONT KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!....LOUD NOISES!!!
www.starwarscustoms.bravehost.com http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/9995/sithlord6jk8cr.png

HiddenMooCow
08-09-2006, 03:06 PM
Idk, I'll test all this out probably tho when I get my saber. I'll try everything and post pics in about 2 weeks.

luis rojas
08-10-2006, 06:41 AM
What would happen if you put a white led and use some x-ray sheets (black parts) as a diffuser...maybe a gray blade...what do you tnink?

http://www.subir-imagenes.com/subir_imagen/c40df02d12.gif

HiddenMooCow
08-10-2006, 07:32 AM
I think I will test pretty much everything that has been said here, I'll include that xray test if I can get a hold of some.

Enoch
08-10-2006, 08:58 AM
Hehe, my <s>first</s> fourth post EVER lol....I had an idea while reading this....

I think GE sells colored PolyC you could get a pretty dark red blade and then use the black rod in the center idea and you white corona would be concealed andturned red by the red tube and then the black dowel in the center could be easier to see.... Wouldn't be all that bright for color purposes tho...

Just my **whips out calculator** 2.234134223533254 cents.
<font color="green"></font id="green">fixed

Fear is the mindkiller

HiddenMooCow
08-10-2006, 09:12 AM
Keep postin your ideas! I like em and I can't wait to test em out. But keep in mind I probably won't do ones that cannot be reversed, what I mean by that is that I will test the rod thing but i will attach it to a tip that I can remove and I could try diffusser ideas as long as it all is removeable, I'm not made of money. (even though I kinda don't wish I was cuz I'd get murdered quickly :) )

987654321a
08-10-2006, 05:12 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by luis rojas

What would happen if you put a white led and use some x-ray sheets (black parts) as a diffuser...maybe a gray blade...what do you tnink?

http://www.subir-imagenes.com/subir_imagen/c40df02d12.gif
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


its not going to work, its impossible, you can have a brown blade, as that is a color, but a black blade is impossible or a grey blade, so nothing neatral like black will work, so sorry, i mean you can try but you will get a dim color

I DONT KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!....LOUD NOISES!!!
www.starwarscustoms.bravehost.com http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/9995/sithlord6jk8cr.png

joe104
10-11-2006, 11:11 PM
ya thats what i was gonna say. maybe a brown filter or blade.

Jedi-Loreen
10-12-2006, 12:13 AM
Yeah, that's what you were gonna say.

2 months later! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-047.gif

JediMcD
10-12-2006, 06:24 AM
JLo that is too funny. :lol:

Joe I thought we talked about this dragging up dead threads. It is beginning to look like the Night of the Living Dead Thread around here again.

joe104
10-12-2006, 12:21 PM
ya we did but i was tired and i forgot to look at the date

987654321a
10-12-2006, 02:58 PM
lol. rofl jlo, you crack me up!

GFORCE13
10-12-2006, 03:24 PM
Yeah Jedi Loreen you are too damn Funny!!!
But I say let's update why not go with George R's latest : Land of the Dead!! :roll: :D

Jedi-Loreen
10-13-2006, 12:23 AM
I think I'm just having fun getting upset at this guy. http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/tongue0015.gif

Do-Clo
10-13-2006, 08:08 AM
Everyone needs a hobby :twisted:

GFORCE13
10-13-2006, 01:27 PM
Everyone needs a hobby And there are worse ways to spend your spare time plus everybody needs to be entertained. :roll: :lol: :roll:

Ancalagon
09-23-2008, 05:17 PM
Not to beat a dead horse. but this should be possible via interference. There's some subtle math involved, but this should be possible. I think a thin circular ring cut out might work, perhaps with a curved reflector around the LED and a bowl-shaped transparent plastic disk on which the cut-out would be mounted. Lots of experimentation would be needed.

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/lightandcolor/images/particlewavefigure6.jpg

http://bi-staff.beckman.uiuc.edu/~melockwo/mirror_making/q6_test/a_fringes.jpg

http://www1.union.edu/newmanj/lasers/Light%20as%20a%20Wave/light_as_a_wave.htm

swear000
09-23-2008, 06:14 PM
yeah if the light is directed outward...almost like a one way mirror effect. Only other thing I could think of is use black paint in patches on the TCSS film black and use an blue/purple led. This wouldn't generate a black core but may be used to make an "electric blade" effect.

xwingband
09-23-2008, 06:48 PM
Not to beat a dead horse. but this should be possible via interference. There's some subtle math involved, but this should be possible. I think a thin circular ring cut out might work, perhaps with a curved reflector around the LED and a bowl-shaped transparent plastic disk on which the cut-out would be mounted. Lots of experimentation would be needed.

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/lightandcolor/images/particlewavefigure6.jpg

http://bi-staff.beckman.uiuc.edu/~melockwo/mirror_making/q6_test/a_fringes.jpg

http://www1.union.edu/newmanj/lasers/Light%20as%20a%20Wave/light_as_a_wave.htm

White light is a composition of Red, Green and Blue light... and it's all going at the same time. There is no way you could create a interference pattern to create black in the real world.

Swear's post makes even less sense... "directed outward"? Black is the absence of light. So you couldn't project an absence.

Hasid Lafre
09-23-2008, 07:01 PM
Exactly, the easyest way to make a black blade is with a smoked acrilic rod or paint a tube black.

There is no tru black light as Xwing said black is the absent of light so for us it would be just a color.

Let this dead horse die already.

swear000
09-23-2008, 10:12 PM
can we kill the horse with a negative energy ninja saber?

psab keel
09-23-2008, 10:34 PM
I'm not one to really comment on things like this, but the whole "black bladed lightsaber" is the stupidest idea I have ever heard when it comes to lightsabers.

Not only is it not logical, but the laws of physics will not work in one's favor.

Black is the absence of light. A lightsaber is a sword with a blade of light. It won't work, plain and simple.

You might as well just have a black steel sword.

Malaki Skywalker
09-24-2008, 12:21 AM
I'm not one to really comment on things like this, but the whole "black bladed lightsaber" is the stupidest idea I have ever heard when it comes to lightsabers.

Not only is it not logical, but the laws of physics will not work in one's favor.

Black is the absence of light. A lightsaber is a sword with a blade of light. It won't work, plain and simple.

You might as well just have a black steel sword.

Have you played Force Unleashed yet? Black sabers FTW! :cool:

Hasid Lafre
09-24-2008, 01:02 AM
No not FTW cause where going to get every dessenin on the web comming in asking how do you make black saber blades. Please let this topic die.

swear000
09-24-2008, 01:54 AM
I agree this topic should die. If you really want to try it:
-Build a regular lightsaber hilt and blade with TCSS blade film and polypropylene
-Use a white led
-Use a grey LEE filter over the LED
-If it doesn't work like expected, change the LEE filter to blue or some other color

MoonDragn
09-24-2008, 11:14 AM
The only way a black opaque blade would work would be to use UV light. But then it still isn't really black, but Violet.

It is true that black absorbs the spectrum of light radiation, but it doesn't absorb infrared or Ultraviolet.

Lord Dottore Matto
09-24-2008, 11:47 AM
Die horse, Die!!!!!!

tinfoilhelmet
09-24-2008, 05:43 PM
I say try it.

Lord Maul
09-24-2008, 05:53 PM
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/aluke_2006/Smilies/DeadHorse.gif

Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie
09-24-2008, 06:50 PM
(I don't mind derailing this topic...)

Dude, where do you find those smilies?

Lord Maul
09-24-2008, 07:07 PM
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/aluke_2006/Smilies/icon_huh.gif

If I told you I'd have to run you over...http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/aluke_2006/Smilies/smileys-7.gif

This one isn't really a smiley, but I still think it's genius.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/aluke_2006/Smilies/jokerclapsu8.gif

Anavrin
09-27-2008, 07:23 AM
My only idea for that (And I 've thought about it in depth just because I want to say I have) was to have very small, thin panels run up the inside and outside of the blade with space between them. The vanes would have to be about 3mm wide with a 2mm gap. The inner ones would have to be the same with a slightly smaller gap. This would make the blade opaque (mostly) directly on, but light would escape tangentially around the "corona". There would be spill, of course, and it wouldn't be perfect, but it's the only way I can imagine. It'd be prohibitively expensive and delicate, though.

Angelus Lupus
09-27-2008, 07:41 AM
If you want a black blade use a carbon rod, or paint a dowel. No way with known physics are you going to get black by using light.

Now die thread, die!