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View Full Version : 14.8V Li-ion Battery Pack Diagram?



Master Valon
03-19-2011, 05:45 PM
Hello again fellow saber enthusiasts! Sorry for the flurry of posts from me, asking electronic wiring questions. I just finally ordered all of my parts for my 10W ledengin stunt saber, so I just want to be ready when it all comes. I was wondering if anyone has any pics of when they wired together 4 Li-ion cells and a PCB, as that's the only aspect of this build I'm not 100% on. I'm gunna be using 4 14650 cells in double barrel setup to give 14.8V to a 1000mA Puck and 10W Deep Red led (W/ recharge port.) I have scoured these and other forums and have yet to find a pictured tutorial involving making a 4-cell Li-ion pack. Thanks for reading this all the way through! :)

Azmaria Dei
03-19-2011, 06:32 PM
the 14.8V battery pack is set up the same way as the 7.4V packs, just with more cells. here's a picture of wiring an example 14.8V PCB.

http://www.all-battery.com/images/PCM-CS04SH-47-diagram.jpg

Master Valon
03-19-2011, 08:30 PM
Thanks as usual Az! You always seem to have the perfect answer for me, lol. Thanks bunches! :)

Azmaria Dei
03-19-2011, 08:47 PM
i do try. ^_^

dbluephoenix
03-28-2011, 01:47 PM
With this, would you be able/need to use the 4AA or 6AA battery holder, or would you just wire each battery directly to the chip? Also, as I understand it, you'd have to wire your batteries in Parallel in order to get any longevity benefit. Does the chip already sort of do that?

Tanimal
03-28-2011, 04:54 PM
With this, would you be able/need to use the 4AA or 6AA battery holder, or would you just wire each battery directly to the chip? Also, as I understand it, you'd have to wire your batteries in Parallel in order to get any longevity benefit. Does the chip already sort of do that?

I'm pretty sure thats not true. The mAH rating of your battery pack will raise with how many batteries you have no matter how you arrange them.

Master Valon
03-28-2011, 06:09 PM
Well first off, you would need a AA sized 14500 cell to make the pack from, in order to use those holders. (I'm personally using 14650 cells, which are 7/5 the size of AAs). Plus, if I remember correctly, those AA sized cells in the store are "protected" and as such, DO NOT use a PCB with them, as that would be bad. Lastly, yes you do wire each battery directly to the PCB, but you also wire them to each other. This means that except for two cells in the pack, on each terminal of each battery there will be two wires, one going to a terminal on the board and one going to the next cell. And from my understanding, wiring in series, which is what you have to do for this pack, makes VOLTAGE additive, whereas wiring in parallel makes CURRENT additive(again if I remember correctly). And no, the PCB does not add any longevity bonus to your pack- all it does is monitor charge/discharge rates, as Li-ion cells are notoriously unstable with out such safeguards. Hopefully this helps you guys out, as I just used this knowledge provided by this and other threads here to successfully make my first Li-ion pack(14.8V). Happy sabersmithing!

Azmaria Dei
03-28-2011, 10:00 PM
with batteries wired in series, the voltage goes up with each added cell, but the mAh stays the same. wired in parallel, the voltage stays the same, but the mAh goes up.

that PCB can accept series/parallel combination wiring, but you would have to wire the same number of and type of cells to each position.

as for using the battery holder, skip it and heatshrink the batteries together with the PCB.

as for protected vs unprotected, use unprotected batteries when building packs. using protected batteries adds a whole level of butthurtz to convert them and is a lot of hassle. trust me on that - i've done it several times. oh and to further convince you, if you screw up when you're converting it, it turns into a grenade and you can lose body parts. grounding the connectors together without a PCB causes a short which causes massive current flow which causes swelling which causes the casing to split which causes the lithium to come into contact with air, which causes a violent explosion. never puncture a Li-Ion cell either, by the way.

Master Valon
03-29-2011, 09:50 PM
Even though I've already successfully made my first Li-ion pack, you've succeeded in frightening me to quite a degree, Az! haha

Azmaria Dei
03-30-2011, 01:10 AM
always have a healthy fear and respect for elements that can remove limbs.

IndustrialAction
03-30-2011, 04:13 AM
Am I correct in assuming you could use safe chemistry high drain batteries (IMRs) in packs? They don't go boom. I use them in my variable voltage electronic cigarette mods.

Azmaria Dei
03-30-2011, 07:36 AM
if they fit, are safe, can power a 2-3A LED, and you can get them to work as needed... i say got for it and let us know how it turns out. ^_^

IndustrialAction
03-30-2011, 08:02 AM
I have a few extra sitting around. I'll use them for my next pack. I don't know how the "high-drain" aspect of them will affect the performance. We use them in the variable voltage mods because you can pull more voltage out of them (upwards of 6V) at a constant rate on a single cell.

Skottsaber
03-30-2011, 09:07 AM
Also make sure they don't do things like go splodey on impact.

IndustrialAction
03-30-2011, 09:24 AM
IMRs don't/can't explode. They are safe chemistry batteries.

Azmaria Dei
03-30-2011, 02:28 PM
IMRs don't/can't explode. They are safe chemistry batteries.

i bet i can find a way to blow them up. ^_^ what ARE they made of, anyway?

IndustrialAction
03-30-2011, 06:31 PM
They are LiMn (Lithium Manganese) [LiMn2O4]. There's very little technical data out there but you'll find info on eCig boards and sites like Lighthound and the candle power forums.

Azmaria Dei
03-30-2011, 10:15 PM
there's plenty of data out there actually. they make up 80% of the lithium battery market, after all. PCBs aren't needed, but they're recommended to prevent over-discharge, which can damage them similarly to Li-Ion. ALSO, they contain lithium. remember my little splody description above? same thing applies, but without the gasses expanding and causing the case to crack. just don't stab the cells or try cutting into them or throwing them in water or fire or crushing them...

Skottsaber
03-31-2011, 05:12 AM
IMRs don't/can't explode. They are safe chemistry batteries.

Can't? I'm sure they can be made to :D

Azmaria Dei
03-31-2011, 05:54 AM
Can't? I'm sure they can be made to :D

and easily too. short them out with a full charge and throw it.

IndustrialAction
03-31-2011, 06:07 AM
there's plenty of data out there actually. they make up 80% of the lithium battery market, after all. PCBs aren't needed, but they're recommended to prevent over-discharge, which can damage them similarly to Li-Ion. ALSO, they contain lithium. remember my little splody description above? same thing applies, but without the gasses expanding and causing the case to crack. just don't stab the cells or try cutting into them or throwing them in water or fire or crushing them...

Well, sort of. I read all the same stuff you did most likely but none of it really speaks to the AW brand IMR batteries. They're different than just being LiMn. I had been speaking to an AW importer a few months ago about an order for my mods and he was supposed to get me a more detailed spec sheet from AW but I never got it.

Azmaria Dei
03-31-2011, 06:44 AM
Well, sort of. I read all the same stuff you did most likely but none of it really speaks to the AW brand IMR batteries. They're different than just being LiMn. I had been speaking to an AW importer a few months ago about an order for my mods and he was supposed to get me a more detailed spec sheet from AW but I never got it.

actually, unless you've been to a training course on them, i doubt you've read the exact same material. the bottom line is this - manganese is solid so doesn't expand nearly as much when it gets overexcited. if you have a solid enough case, you're good for the most part. you still don't want to toss them into water though.

and saying anything with Lithium in it is non-reactive is like saying a grenade is safe because it doesn't have a fuse but still has the charge. toss it in a fire and you'll see real fast how non-reactive it is.

Sunrider
03-31-2011, 06:46 AM
Well, sort of. I read all the same stuff you did most likely but none of it really speaks to the AW brand IMR batteries. They're different than just being LiMn. I had been speaking to an AW importer a few months ago about an order for my mods and he was supposed to get me a more detailed spec sheet from AW but I never got it.

AW does not make batteries. So the only spec sheet would be what ever major manufacturer battery they wrapped. They do wrap and protect quality batteries though.

Kant Lavar
04-01-2011, 10:53 PM
and easily too. short them out with a full charge and throw it.

And there's always the Hyneman Axiom.

"When in doubt... C-4."

Azmaria Dei
04-01-2011, 10:57 PM
And there's always the Hyneman Axiom.

"When in doubt... C-4."

reminds me of what one of my old explosive ordinance disposal friends always said. "When all else fails, think high explosives!"