PC-L Accent LED pads

[Invisas1979]

I have been reading through the owners manual before I decide whether to get one or two of these for my current projects.

The manual states that the board puts out 3.3v and that we should resistor the led.

So my question is, could a lux 3 be run from the L1 or L2 pad and still be fairly bright? The FV for a lux three is similar so it seems that the answer would be yes, just fancy some clarification.

Cheers

[Skottsaber]

Look at the current rating :roll:

[PhoenixReborn]

Could these pads be used with powerxtendrs for an RGBA?

[Azmaria Dei]

these pads are rated for 19mA @3.3V - LEDs wired directly to them will need to be resistored as needed. as for hooking a power extender up to one of the accent LED pads or the 3.3V pad and using it to drive a secondary flicker or something, i fully plan on doing that with mine. i'll let you know how it goes. ^_^

[Invisas1979]

Look at the current rating :roll:

Skott, do me a favour and reply to anyone else's postings but mine. What was the point of this post but to up your post count.


these pads are rated for 19mA @3.3V - LEDs wired directly to them will need to be resistored as needed. as for hooking a power extender up to one of the accent LED pads or the 3.3V pad and using it to drive a secondary flicker or something, i fully plan on doing that with mine. i'll let you know how it goes. ^_^

Ok I think I need to be more specific.

So the FV of a P4 is 3.25 and the Pad gives out 3.3v.

The manual states 3.3-3.25 /0.01= that means a 5ohm resistor. Will the non resistoring and slight over driving kill the board or LED?

Sorry didn't mean to double post there, can a mod merge the last two posts please.

[Azmaria Dei]

Invisias - you should have used the multi-quote buttons.

as for the LED pads, i'll explain this simply for you.

P4 Blue - 1000mA
accent LED pad - 19mA output

in the end, voltage doesn't matter, so IGNORE IT. the lack of ability for the board to put out 19mA DOES. that LED WILL NOT LIGHT UP.

verstehst du?

[Invisas1979]

Invisias - you should have used the multi-quote buttons.

as for the LED pads, i'll explain this simply for you.

P4 Blue - 1000mA
accent LED pad - 19mA output

in the end, voltage doesn't matter, so IGNORE IT. the lack of ability for the board to put out 19mA DOES. that LED WILL NOT LIGHT UP.

verstehst du?

Yeah I know, that's why I edited my last post.

You mean the lack of the board to put our more than 18ma right, now I get you. The 1000ma and 18ma are the current ratings of the LED and board, yes. My electronic knowledge is a touch lacking as you can see.

[Azmaria Dei]

as long as you understand now, that's what matters. and if someone else comes across this and gets the idea as well, i'll be ecstatic.

[Invisas1979]

as long as you understand now, that's what matters. and if someone else comes across this and gets the idea as well, i'll be ecstatic.

Ha ha ha. I know what you mean.

Sometimes people only understand math type stuff in simple terms. If only my math teacher at school taught like that I'd have understood a lot more of what he was talking about. :rolleyes:

Ok Azmaria.

Maybe I'll pick you brains on something else. If the PC is set to put out 1000ma of current to run your main led, would running an led in paralelle, effect the amount of current going to both led. Making the current going to both 500ma or does it just effect the run time.

[xl97]

ya know, skott tried to help you.. his answer was right and pointing you in the right direction..

it wasnt his fault you didnt understand it. (to be fair to him)

[Invisas1979]

No disrespect to you xl but If you don't understand the technical terms of a thing, being told look at current is not a help. And this is the second pretty unhelpful reply I've had from him in a week. And that's not even adding the rolls eyes bit, which is a sarcastic thing to do. We all know it.

I understand people in the know getting frustrated, but if I have insight into something which can be put across in a way that people understand then that's what I'll do.

My knowledge of electronics, math and physics are limited. Azmaria laid it out perfectly, was that so hard. No. And if my not understanding becomes his problem, then don't reply and definitely don't lay it at my feet. What kind of a reply is that, what does that teach anyone but to blame pupil for not being able to teach them something. Ridiculous. I know when I read a post if someone is not getting the gist, and if they don't get it, I'll either help in the most earnest way or I won't post.

So, my preference is for Skott not to put in his tpw unless it's helpful. There is no point in me or anyone else posting otherwise because we won't learn and move forward.

I don't think that's unreasonable. I don't want to argue, I just want to learn some more about a side of the hobby I've not really dealt with yet.

The best teacher isn't the math wizz or nuclear physicist, it's the guy or gal who can explain the theory to a normal person and have him or her understand it.

[xl97]

I agree.

You can be a genius at what you do but lack any way to communicate it effectively to teach others....

that being said.. who is to know what you understood or didnt? You didnt reply saying you didnt understand his comment about current.. (or maybe you didnt search it?)

Even after AD's first comment, you re-stated your 'point'.

Now Im fully on your side.. when something is a bit new, I tend to beat it a bit until it 'clicks'...but coming across angry/argumentative doesnt effectively replay what part(s) you didnt understand is all.

(Im not saying the rolling eyes was appropriate.... I have always subscribed to the post helpful replies or ignore the thread)

(but I am saying his post 'was' helpful, but nobody knew you didnt/wouldnt understand it) =)

but in the end you learned something..

when you exceed the mA rating 'that' is overdriving..

[Skottsaber]

but nobody knew you didnt/wouldnt understand it) =)

Exactly what I was going to say.
I'm sure you must notice SOME difference between a 5mm LED and a 3w Power LED.

[IndustrialAction]

Invisias - you should have used the multi-quote buttons.

as for the LED pads, i'll explain this simply for you.

P4 Blue - 1000mA
accent LED pad - 19mA output

in the end, voltage doesn't matter, so IGNORE IT. the lack of ability for the board to put out 19mA DOES. that LED WILL NOT LIGHT UP.

verstehst du?

Hey guys, follow-up question...

My plan is (perhaps soon to be "was") to use an AV latching switch (blue dot) for the primary on/off functions of the saber and per Azmaria's suggestion in another thread, wire the LED contacts to LED accent pad 1 and the LED accent ground. The AV switch has a forward voltage of 3.3 but runs at 20mA. Does that mean that the switch LED will not light in this configuration? If so, where do I wire the switch LED to?

[Silver Serpent]

Accent LED pad is 3.3V @ 19mA output.
AV switch LED needs 3.3V @ 20mA.

It'll light just fine, your eyes won't be able to tell the difference.

[IndustrialAction]

Accent LED pad is 3.3V @ 19mA output.
AV switch LED needs 3.3V @ 20mA.

It'll light just fine, your eyes won't be able to tell the difference.

Whew, ok, sweet!

Follow-up...since TCSS is out of all AV switches, I might need to look elsewhere for that one component (don't worry, everything else is coming from Tim). I couldn't find the actual switch measurements. Does anyone know which version of the AV the activation box (2) holes are based on? My guess is that it is the PV6 but that's just a guess.

[Silver Serpent]

All the AV switches in the TCSS store are of the 16mm variety.

In addition, you can get measurements for other switches, recharge ports, etc. from this thread: http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?11154-Commonly-used-Drill-bits-taps-and-measurements

[Azmaria Dei]

Invisias - running LEDs in parallel will be the same voltage, but double the amperage requirements - with a setting of 1A, each will get 500mA. if you ran them in series, you would double the voltage requirements and the needed amperage would stay the same.

also, i like to make sure people get the right information and how i do it is generally called 'spoonfeeding', which is frowned upon by a lot of people as it's expected for those that are NOT knowledgable in areas like this to research them with little prods - helping those that help themselves, as it were. Skott's comment was rather lacking in information, and Skott, please try to be a tad more verbose in the future when you point someone in a direction. on the flip side of that, Invisias, please try not to flame people that ARE trying to help you - just let them know you don't understand and need more clarification and info.

we can't all be electronics technicians/engineers...

[Invisas1979]

Invisias - running LEDs in parallel will be the same voltage, but double the amperage requirements - with a setting of 1A, each will get 500mA. if you ran them in series, you would double the voltage requirements and the needed amperage would stay the same.

If the voltage is doubled then all that means is the batteries will need recharging sooner; the PC will recognise it has to draw more power from the 7.2li pack but will still supply the leds with 1000ma each, which has been set up on the sd card?

[Skottsaber]

No, the PC puts out a constant current, say you set it to 1 amp on the config file, the LED driver will put out 1 amp, even if you connect an elephant to it.
So if you run 2 LEDs in parallel each LED will get 500ma.

Why do you want 2 LEDs on one soundboard anyway?

[Solan Starr]

If the voltage is doubled then all that means is the batteries will need recharging sooner; the PC will recognise it has to draw more power from the 7.2li pack but will still supply the leds with 1000ma each, which has been set up on the sd card?

Invisas - You're somewhat right. Increased voltage won't drain batteries faster, increased current will. You won't be able to double the voltage with the PC, as putting 14.8v (2x 2-Li-Ion 7.4v packs) would fry the board.

The PC is like a puck driver (Buck Puck) in that it does not regulate voltage. It regulates amperage. A buck puck takes 5v input (minimum) and regulates it out to (whichever version you bought) say 1000mA of current. It provides a constant current (1000mA) and fluctuates voltage to make sure it provides that constant current. You do not need to use a resistor with a buck puck, because IT regulates the voltage and gives the LED the amperage that the LED wants. So basically, you could put 12v into a buck puck (you'd smoke an LED with that much) but because you have the buck puck, it would regulate that 12v down to say 3v, but output the 1000mA the LED wants.

The PC takes an input voltage of 4.5v - 9v with a recommended 7.4v Dual Li-Ion setup (but regulates it down at the output to say 3v like the puck) and has a set output of (user adjustable) say 1000mA. So you wouldn't be able to run them in series (hooking the board + output to the first LED + pad, the first LED - pad to the second LED + pad, then the second LED - pad to the board - output) as you would (theoretically) be giving each LED 1.5v --- 3v output divided by 2. (running in series divides the voltage)

But what you could do (say if you're wanting to make a saber staff - 2 blades, 1 sound board) is run 2 LEDs in parallel. (hook the the board + output to BOTH LED + pads and the board - output to BOTH LED - pads) (running in parallel divides the amperage or current) The manual says the board is capable of outputting 1500mA (1.5A). The issue you have with doing this is that even at it's maximum setting of 1500mA, you would only give your LEDs about 750mA a piece. Not a big deal to some, but it is to others. The main thing would be to look for an LED that is most efficient at a 700mA'ish setting. I believe the Rebel LEDs LOVE 700mA so with a divided current of 750mA each, you would slightly overdrive a rebel and everything should work out as you planned it. (depending on your plans)

I just checked the specs on the Luxeon Rebels here at TCSS (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Luxeon-Rebel-Star-P523.aspx) and the green puts out 166 lumens at 700mA, red puts out 85 lumens at 700mA.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions sir. In my case it usually brings more questions to the surface. :) Good luck with your research and project.

SS

[Invisas1979]

No, the PC puts out a constant current, say you set it to 1 amp on the config file, the LED driver will put out 1 amp, even if you connect an elephant to it.
So if you run 2 LEDs in parallel each LED will get 500ma.

Why do you want 2 LEDs on one soundboard anyway?

This is the difficulty in e-mail or text correspondance, you have to be specific. I was referreing to the bit of the quote below by saying the the PC will draw more power from the battery pack to power both leds up to 1000a.


Invisias - if you ran them in series, you would double the voltage requirements and the needed amperage would stay the same.

It's hard to make sense when you're trying to make sense of what you're talking about.

Yes, I get the 1000ma output setting won't change. But if i'm understanding what AZ is saying, if I ran the led leds in series they would both get 1000ma at the cost of decreased run time or is that still off pace?

The reason is I want to have a brighter led in a crystal chamber than the general accent leds and I'm trying to figure out if it's possible with this board and if it is how to do it.

I have a US 2.5 running two leds but this saber was made for me so I don't know how it was wired. You see my issue.

[Skottsaber]

Yes, I get the 1000ma output setting won't change. But if i'm understanding what AZ is saying, if I ran the led leds in series they would both get 1000ma at the cost of decreased run time or is that still off pace?

ok...
Runtime = Current = measured in ma or A
Voltage = What pushes the current, or in the hosepipe analogy, the 'pressure'.

While the batteries run out, the voltage lowers, yes, but it isn't a 'physical' thing like current.
Your current is literally the amount of electrons you have. Mah is how long your cell will last at a set amperage. So say you have a 1000mah battery and an LED running at one amp. You then get 1 hour runtime, because you have a cell that can give an amp for one hour before it dies.
Voltage is not runtime.

In series, your voltage decreases after every component.
So if you have a 6 volt battery, and 2 LEDs running in parallel, the first LED will get 6 volts, the second will get 3 volts, and both will get the same current, increasing the current draw, i.e reducing your runtime, because instead of drawing 1 amp you're now drawing two.
In parallel, the first LED will get 6v and the second LED will get 6v, but less current. Therefore your runtime stays the same.

Was that answer a bit more informative?

[Invisas1979]

ok...
Runtime = Current = measured in ma or A
Voltage = What pushes the current, or in the hosepipe analogy, the 'pressure'.

While the batteries run out, the voltage lowers, yes, but it isn't a 'physical' thing like current.
Your current is literally the amount of electrons you have. Mah is how long your cell will last at a set amperage. So say you have a 1000mah battery and an LED running at one amp. You then get 1 hour runtime, because you have a cell that can give an amp for one hour before it dies.
Voltage is not runtime.

In series, your voltage decreases after every component.
So if you have a 6 volt battery, and 2 LEDs running in parallel, the first LED will get 6 volts, the second will get 3 volts, and both will get the same current, increasing the current draw, i.e reducing your runtime, because instead of drawing 1 amp you're now drawing two.
In parallel, the first LED will get 6v and the second LED will get 6v, but less current. Therefore your runtime stays the same.

Was that answer a bit more informative?

Yes. So I could run two leds in series, using the same watt led from the PC sound board.

[pointoforigin]

Yes, but the second LED in the series will not be as bright as the first, because of the voltage drop.

[Azmaria Dei]

Yes, but the second LED in the series will not be as bright as the first, because of the voltage drop.

wrong. they'll be the same brightness - the voltage would be split evenly between them.
also, the only LED dies i could see running in series with a PC is any of the reds - their fV is low enough that doubling it will stay within the expected operating range of the LED driver.

AKA - if you have a 4 die red LED, you could run them in series/parallel with a requirement of something like 5V @ 1400mA and in essence, be driving what would normally be considered a 10W LED with the PC.

[IndustrialAction]

Have any of you soldered the accent pads yet? The ground is right below the micro SD holder. That isn't going to be fun. I imagine it takes a quick, steady hand to get a small bit of solder in there and not make a mess or worse. I was thinking about using JB Weld in spots like that. Thoughts?

[Jedi-Loreen]

I wouldn't use that, it probably won't work well. Even though JB Weld has metal particles in it, it's not very electrically conductive. I've used the continuity test on some cured JB Weld out of curiosity and there's no beep from my meter when I put both leads on the same bit of it.

That stuff can be messy and takes 24 hrs to fully cure. Making sure that the wire stayed in perfect contact with the pad would be difficult, since that stuff likes to flow before it starts to harden. And even then, only a very small surface of the wire would even be making direct contact with the pad.

It's not meant to be used to attempt electrical connections with.

Find something cheap to practice soldering on, with thin diameter solder and a small tip, if you are scared to mess up your board.

[Invisas1979]

wrong. they'll be the same brightness - the voltage would be split evenly between them.
also, the only LED dies i could see running in series with a PC is any of the reds - their fV is low enough that doubling it will stay within the expected operating range of the LED driver.

AKA - if you have a 4 die red LED, you could run them in series/parallel with a requirement of something like 5V @ 1400mA and in essence, be driving what would normally be considered a 10W LED with the PC.

The fv of the blue P4's are 3.25 do you think this would still be too much? Or would I not be able to do it because the 1000ma requirement of both leds and the board putting out 1500ma max.

Could I use a 1 watt led in series with a 3watt to reduce the volatge requirement and the ma requirement?

[DarthStallion]

hey guys. i'm brand new to the forum and to the scene in general and this is my first post. i've been doing as much reading as possible and i think it's a pretty rad community here.

on the other hand, i have noticed the tendency for people to jump in and "make fun" of those who aren't in the know or haven't been involved for long. as evident from this thread is seems that some are waiting to to attack those who may be looking for some quick advice or a nod in the right direction. please keep in mind that there is a ton of content in this forum and it can be pretty daunting to newcomers.

it is amazing the wealth of knowledge that is up here and i'm very excited to learn as much as i can!

[Skottsaber]

Invisas, as Az has said, the LED driver isn't designed to run 2 LEDs, the only real way to 'cheat' it would to have a setup like she mentioned.

Darthstallion, welcome :D
I partially agree with what you say, however, the wealth of information on the forums was created by users over the years, giving a lot of time to put the info out there to help others.
So as this is a DIY forum, we ask out of courtesy for people to try and do some prior research beforehand, so as not to ask questions that they can answer for themselves. I am perfectly happy to answer any intelligently researched question. For example, if somebody has had an idea, searched for it, found thread x, and posts a thread asking about y and z, I will answer it with the respect that the research is worthy of.

[DarthStallion]

i agree 100%. i suppose the point i was making is that the more i read snarky replies the less i was willing to get involved.
at the end of the day we're all here with the same goals and intentions. making rad sabers. some may have more knowledge and electronics understanding than others and that's the point, to share it.
we're all just star wars nerds at heart ...and i mean that in the best possible way of course!

[IndustrialAction]

I wouldn't use that, it probably won't work well. Even though JB Weld has metal particles in it, it's not very electrically conductive. I've used the continuity test on some cured JB Weld out of curiosity and there's no beep from my meter when I put both leads on the same bit of it.

That stuff can be messy and takes 24 hrs to fully cure. Making sure that the wire stayed in perfect contact with the pad would be difficult, since that stuff likes to flow before it starts to harden. And even then, only a very small surface of the wire would even be making direct contact with the pad.

It's not meant to be used to attempt electrical connections with.

Find something cheap to practice soldering on, with thin diameter solder and a small tip, if you are scared to mess up your board.


I'm pretty sure I can do it with the solder and my helping hand, I just thought the JB Wrld might be a viable option for that particular point. Thanks for the info Loreen. I've used JB Weld on my electronic cigarette mods (the Genesis atomizer for those of you in to e cigs) and it works well for my leads from the battery connector to the coils. If it isn't conductive enough, I'll skip it and stick w solder.

[Skottsaber]

You could use solderpaste and a small syringe, but you would have a lot of spare paste.

[Azmaria Dei]

IndustrialAction - i've put a wire on every solder point on the PC-L without any trouble at all. in fact, i have 2 wires on the battery input negative pad. just be quick and accurate, and use as little solder as you can.

Invisias - the Blue P4 in series would be 6.5V @ 1000mA, and that's outside my comfort zone by half a volt. in parallel, that would be 3.25V @ 2000mA, which if wired to the PC-L would be driving each of them at 750mA for a total of 1500mA. you COULD do the second one and underdrive both LEDs. these LEDs can each take 1500mA though. as for resistoring the output of a PC-L, i recommend against doing that unless you're using an RGB and trying to get the perfect shade of something, and especially for the application you suggest.

DarthStallion - when people ask the same question that dozens of other people have asked, it can and will get you flamed. especially when the same question is asked in several threads that are right next to the thread that the question is being asked in, or when it's asked in a stickied thread right above the question. this has nothing to do with having or not having 20 years of experience in electronics and/or star wars - it's simple search-fu. we ask that everyone new reads EVERY stickied thread and it's very annoying when it's obvious they didn't. welcome to the forums, please enjoy your stay, and please read all the stickied threads - most of us do not spoonfeed new people. (myself being a current exception)

^_^ enjoy!
Az

[Zook]

I'm pretty sure I can do it with the solder and my helping hand, I just thought the JB Wrld might be a viable option for that particular point. Thanks for the info Loreen. I've used JB Weld on my electronic cigarette mods (the Genesis atomizer for those of you in to e cigs) and it works well for my leads from the battery connector to the coils. If it isn't conductive enough, I'll skip it and stick w solder.

Dont use JB. make sure you have a small tip iron. If you do not go buy a new tip for the iron that is small enough.

Pre tin the pad with solder (put the iron on it until it heats up enough and put solder on the pad), pre tin the wire, and then just connect them up with a second of touching the iron to both (make sure the solder flows on both the lead and pad).

Its not hard at all but you just need a small tip is all.

[IndustrialAction]

Thanks for the good advice. I picked up a thinner pencil tip than the one I had been using. It should improve things quite a bit. I'm not used to working in such a tight spot as the ground pad but I'm more confident now.