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View Full Version : Petit Crouton Sound Module and Ultrasaber's Bane with VA



Rezolution
02-24-2011, 02:03 PM
I want purchase a Petit Crouton Sound Module from TCSS as soon as they come back into stock but I wanted to ask a question before I do.

I have an Ultrasabers Bane in Violet Amethyst. I'm not sure what type of LED they run in it other than it's an RGB LED. The color i have makes use of two of the three dies. It runs both Blue and Red to mix VA. From what I've been told from Ultrasabers, two active dies use the same voltage but twice the current as one die.

Does anyone know what type of LED they use for a VA bane and if the Petit Crouton Sound Module will be able to provide enough current to it? I can put a multimeter in series with my battery pack and actually see how much current is being used with the Ultrasabers direct drive method but I just though I should ask before i spend the money and wind up ruining the board LoL.

I'm guessing that I would wire up both dies to the same solder pad on the Petit Crouton Sound Module but I have no idea what I would set the power to for this R+B mixed LED.

Rafalema
02-24-2011, 10:27 PM
Yeah, measure the current flowing there. The PC can put out max 1500 mA.

Azmaria Dei
02-24-2011, 10:35 PM
offhand i would guess it's a DX RGB using 1400mA between the two dies. let us know what you find! ^_^

kargos
02-24-2011, 10:36 PM
Out of stock already? wow

Skottsaber
02-24-2011, 11:17 PM
The board will automatically sense the voltage of your LED, and you'll just need to set the LED current in the config file on the uSD card.
You can measure what current the LED is getting currently with a digital multimeter.

Rezolution
02-25-2011, 10:55 AM
So I just write down the current it's using in it's current direct drive mode. Then when I would wire it to the board, I would wire both dies up to the same pad on the PC board in parallel and set it up for the same current it was using in direct drive mode (in parallel). It shoulnd't matter that two dies are hooked to the same pad in parallel (and that R is resistorized and Blue is not). Unless one of the wires ever came loose while I was dueling LoL.

FenderBender
02-25-2011, 12:55 PM
offhand i would guess it's a DX RGB using 1400mA between the two dies. let us know what you find! ^_^

1400ma?!! No, no, no. Keep it at around 1A to be safe. They do use DX RGBs, which are cast off prolight 3W RGBs. They have a max ma of 500ma per dice. We have run them at 1.2A off of PCs and CFs, but that's with PC's and CFs ;) They have an impeccable driver.

Skottsaber
02-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Fender to the rescue!
Yeah Az, I was going to say... those things aren't THAT power hungry.

(On a side note, how's the new Padawan doing Alan?)

Azmaria Dei
02-25-2011, 01:07 PM
ach! i was way off then! thanks FenderBender! ^_^

FenderBender
02-25-2011, 01:10 PM
1400 would be fine (though could be more) with a LEDengin 10W.

Padawan is doing fine now, thanks:)

Rezolution
02-25-2011, 08:21 PM
OK, maybe someone can explain this to me :(

Sooooooooo I slapped a meter on my VA Bane ('Resistorized Red' + 'Blue' on a DX RGB). I get 0.65 Amp with Sanyo Eneloops and 0.75 Amp with Energizer E2 Lithiums.

That didn't seem right, based on what was posted above, so I got out my RGB Prophecy (R,G,B with 3 direct drive toggle switches). I put a meter on that and i got:

Sanyo Eneloop 4.8V Nominal, 4.7V under one or two die load, 4.6V under three die load
Green die only = 0.50 Amp
Blue die only = 0.50 Amp
Red die only = 0.60 Amp
Green+Blue dies = 0.60 Amp
Red+Green dies = 0.70 Amp
Red+Blue dies = 0.70 Amp
Red+Green+Blue dies = 0.75 Amp

I was told that (by someone at the Ultrasabers forum) when you turn two on, it uses twice the current of a single die and if you turned 3 on, it uses three times the current of a single die. It doesn't appear that way...

I'm really at a loss here...

Skottsaber
02-26-2011, 05:53 AM
Interesting...
Where were you testing at?

PhoenixReborn
02-26-2011, 06:02 AM
You're going to want to read the amperage of the individual dies themselves up by the LED, not down by the battery, as well as the voltage. (If you want to stick with ultrasabers configuration)
However, you dont even need to do this with the PC-L. Take a 25 OHM potentiometer and hook it up to the red die. Then set the amperage of the soundboard to one amp. Turn it on, and change the resistance to a point where you like the shade of purple you're using. Then turn it all off, and read the amount of resistance on the pot, and use a resistor close to, if not exactly that resistance on the red die. (This will permenantly give you that shade.)

For example, on my RGBA 10w, i use a 3.3 Ohm resistor on the red, no resistor on the blue, hooked up to a MR Board.


OK, maybe someone can explain this to me :(7

Sooooooooo I slapped a meter on my VA Bane ('Resistorized Red' + 'Blue' on a DX RGB). I get 0.65 Amp with Sanyo Eneloops and 0.75 Amp with Energizer E2 Lithiums.

That didn't seem right, based on what was posted above, so I got out my RGB Prophecy (R,G,B with 3 direct drive toggle switches). I put a meter on that and i got:

Sanyo Eneloop 4.8V Nominal, 4.7V under one or two die load, 4.6V under three die load
Green die only = 0.50 Amp
Blue die only = 0.50 Amp
Red die only = 0.60 Amp
Green+Blue dies = 0.60 Amp
Red+Green dies = 0.70 Amp
Red+Blue dies = 0.70 Amp
Red+Green+Blue dies = 0.75 Amp

I was told that (by someone at the Ultrasabers forum) when you turn two on, it uses twice the current of a single die and if you turned 3 on, it uses three times the current of a single die. It doesn't appear that way...

I'm really at a loss here...

Rezolution
02-26-2011, 08:34 AM
Interesting...
Where were you testing at?

I was reading/breaking the connection where the positive terminal on the battery pack was. I really don't understand why its not pulling 2x the current if the voltage isnt dipping on the pack.

The ONLY thing I can think of is that the batteries aren't able to put out more than 1C (800mAh). The only way I could test this would be to hook up 4AA cells instead (2500 mAh).

Maybe Fender would be able to explain this. He really is the expert on all things diode :)

Azmaria Dei
02-26-2011, 09:48 AM
you need to measure at the LED itself - not at the battery. battery draw will vary based on configuration.

also, while i agree that Fender is an expert in this, he's not the only one, and you've had some really good answers to questions from other people too.

as for your batteries, they may only be 1C models, but i doubt it. i'm betting they're a bit higher than that, even by a little.

and phoenix's method of using a pot is the same one that a lot of people use to mix colors with. though Fender was the one that helped me out by linking me the right pot i needed in the first place. ^_^

bk_renesis
02-27-2011, 05:46 AM
I think it would be great if Tim stocked pots and rgb LEDs in the store. See what different shades and combos people come up with. Considering the increased use of rgbX LEDs in the hobby. Meh...Just my two cents. But I've read somewhere that some people leave the pots in as no two LEDs are the same. So what you use for one will not necessarily give you the same shade for another. Leaving the pot on the die allows for fine tuning I guess.

Rezolution
02-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Yes, I saw everyone's advice about measuring the current at the diode itslef and not at the battery. My last question that I was asking about (where I listed the voltages and currents at the battery) was more of "why?". I wasn't asking about how to configure the board at that point.

I don't understand why the die (which are hooked up in parallel) aren't pulling more current as you turn them on. I was hoping Fender had some knowledge about this particular DX RBG LED and could let me know what my limiting factor is, and why when multiple die are on, the current draw is not increasing. Like I was saying earlier, the only thing I can think of is that the AAA batteries can only be drawn at 1C.

Maybe Fender might know if it's something to do with a common ground or something else with this type of LED.

Azmaria Dei
02-28-2011, 11:44 PM
alkalines are notorious for not putting out like other batteries. they kinda suck TBH. have you switched to NiMHs and tried the readings again? a few people here have built sabers with alkaline batteries in them and they were pretty dim until they swapped to a rechargeable battery that can put out more than a trickle.

what i'm trying to say is, yes i think the average current output of an alkaline AAA is ~1C due to the higher internal resistance.

Rezolution
03-01-2011, 06:23 AM
I get almost the same current readings with Energizer E2 Lithiums (Primare Lithium Disposable) as I do with Sanyo Eneloops (NiMh LSD). The only thing I haven't tried yet is temp wiring up a battery pack with 4AA in it. I have a 2 year old and a 2 month old so I don't have a lot of time to experiment LoL. That's why I was hoping somoene may have come across this before.

Arkhan
03-01-2011, 07:43 AM
Lithium Primaries have similar discharge rates to NIMH. Several times higher than Alkaline batteries.