MR board + Makoto LED ??

[Badkitty]

i have been reading soo many thread my eyes hurt. I, for the most part , love trying to find the info myself because i have found numerous threads with other important info i hadn't thought about , but i did NOT find anything on if i can power a string of makoto's LED with a 2005 MR Anakin Skywalker ROTS board?

I picked up the MR saber today off craigslist for $40 , beat up but works great. I do however have my own saber i've been working on with a Blue P4 and eco board. i want to scrap with p4 and eco board in favor of a LED string and the MR board.

Because i found some 8mm Blue Led , 35,000mcd typ - 40k mcd max , 35degree view angle . 3.6v- 3.8v max , 20ma forward current for super cheap. 8mm is perfect fit inside the foam from the MR saber( i have a 10mm led thats pretty snug so 8mm is perfect) . So i was thinking maybe 60 of these in my string.

[Azmaria Dei]

Slothfurnace's ROTJ Luke reveal in the gallery is the one you want to look at. also look over on nonentity.com for the full build - that's Sloth's website.

as for the MR board itself, they're pretty versatile - most people run a 3-5W high power LED off of them these days but they were made for string LED blades... 10 or so per segment if i remember right.

[Jedi-Loreen]

A 35° viewing angle doesn't sound like enough for this application, though.

But I could be wrong.

[makototsai]

hi~

I use 60° 5mm Makoto' saber led in my blade.

if you use the MR board to drive the v3 blade, that is brighter then original, but the power(current) is not enough to drive v3 blade of 100% power.

in my test before:
Blue V3 blade with MR board that is brighter then original about 30%.
Green V3 blade with MR board that is brighter then original about 40%.
Purple V3 blade with MR board that is brighter then original about 70%.
Red V3 blade with MR board that is brighter then original about 85%.

[Badkitty]

ya , actually i have sloth's website bookmarked on that build. i just went thru it again and didnt see him state what he used to power the 90 Leds. The MR i have uses 64. Wasnt sure how many the others use.

[Azmaria Dei]

not to kinda brush you off or anything, but Sloth and Makototsai are pretty much the only two that i know of that have all but perfected the LED string blades. (i say 'all but perfected' because the sun is still barely brighter ^_^)

Makototsai, didn't you use a couple strings in some of your blades? how on earth did you power that much, anyway? custom driver?

[makototsai]

Couple strips in a blade? you mean my Super V3 plus?
there are DOUBLE led strips and drive board in 1 saber.
just like:
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?10106-V3-Super-plus-saber

[Badkitty]

Well I don't know about that azmaria....I can stare at the sun longer than the pics of their blades! Lol

I do plan on only using 60 led,not 90 tho, for a 32in blade.probably less since the 8mm are taller.

[Grackle]

Yeah, you can run high power LED strings off MR boards no problem. So far every saber slothfurnace has made uses an MR board (his ROTJ Luke, his ANH Graflex, and his Thin-neck Obi-Wan). I have a green saber with nearly identical wiring and setup to his ROTJ Luke he just built, including the same LEDs, they're 30 degree. Anything over 20 degree usually works fine, though the wider the dispersion angle, the brighter the blade will look.

The exact setup me and sloth are both using is 4 AAA NiMH batteries through a standard MR board with the LEDs wired in a standard Makototsai-style ladder, with the negative leg of the ladder clipped every ~13-14 LEDs to separate them into six segments, with very very fine gauge insulated wire run up to each new negative lead segment from the appropriate pinout from the MR board, so that the ignition and retraction work correctly, and no resistors on either side of the LEDs (they can handle the raw current from the MR board without a problem, since it's a more current-hungry setup than the stock MR blade - the LEDs need over 1.5 amps of current at minimum and can easily handle over 2.5A!). For the fine gauge wire, a good source of thin enough wire is old leftover 80-pin IDE hard drive cables. You want the thinnest possible wires, and you need to keep them separated so they don't bunch up on one side of the LED string, otherwise you'll get dark spots and shadows and it won't look as good.

As far as 8mm LEDs, they may seem like they'll fit, but I'm betting once you have a whole string wired up, you'll have a heck of a time getting them in there without tearing the foam. My first attempt used the foam out of a newer 2010 removable blade saber with 5mm LEDs, and I tore several inches of the foam in my attempts to get the string through (the 2010s are slightly smaller, but not by much). I ended up having to very carefully desolder all the LEDs in the string and very carefully bend the legs in a little further and work to get it as slim as I could and re-solder them and very carefully trim away ANY little bits of the legs or stray solder that stuck out the sides, since it would catch on the foam and tear it during insertion. (and I had to get a new foam tube, to replace the torn one, too)

[Badkitty]

that was exactly the type of info i was looking for grackle. thank you so much.

what kind of blade do you use ? i have tims trans white 1in thin wall and the led diffuser tube. i was thinking instead of trying to slide the larger led into the foam , since i have the diffuser tube to hide the foam , why not slice the foam down one side and just lay the string in it , then slide that into the tube. In theory it sounds like a good plan.

also i want to get an opinion on some LEDs i'm looking at , but dont want to post a link in here again. can someone pm me to help? thanks

[Sunrider]

Not to derail topic but does anyone know what transistors are used on the MR/fx boards?

[Azmaria Dei]

Not to derail topic but does anyone know what transistors are used on the MR/fx boards?

Sunrider - depends on the board - the yodas use SMD transistors labeled "I A" and the ventress boards, which i think use the more normal ones, are labeled "K MPS 8050D 927"

Badkitty - what are the specs on the LEDs? MCD rating and view angle and size and brand?

edit:: got the PM! neither of those LEDs have wide enough view angles sadly...

[Badkitty]

how about flat top led ?

Emitting Colour:5MM FLAT TOP BLUE LED
LENS Type:Water clear
Color Temperature: ~
Luminous Intensity-MCD: Typ: 12,000 mcd
Reverse Voltage:5.0 V
DC Forward Voltage: Typical:
DC Forward Current:20mA
Viewing Angle:140 degree

[Sunrider]

Thanks Az I think I got a match.

[Azmaria Dei]

Badkitty - those sound like they'll work fairly well. might be a bit of a pain to handle at times though. might as well get some and give it a try! ^_^

Sunrider - after all the help you've given me, it's the least i could do. ^_^

[Badkitty]

ya , looking at the pictures of them ...they look like they'd be easier to stack on top of each other more evenly , due to flat surface. pretty cheap too..i'm gonna try it.

again thanks for the info and help :D

.. ok so i just ordered 100 5mm flat top led. 6000mcd 180degree angle. will be here in 3days :D i'll let u know all how they look. the ones i linked above were coming from hong kong.. 2x the price and delivery 3 weeks. lol..so i opted for these and sooner.

[Azmaria Dei]

/jealous! everything i order takes at LEAST a week to get here...

[Grackle]

that was exactly the type of info i was looking for grackle. thank you so much.

what kind of blade do you use ? i have tims trans white 1in thin wall and the led diffuser tube. i was thinking instead of trying to slide the larger led into the foam , since i have the diffuser tube to hide the foam , why not slice the foam down one side and just lay the string in it , then slide that into the tube. In theory it sounds like a good plan.

also i want to get an opinion on some LEDs i'm looking at , but dont want to post a link in here again. can someone pm me to help? thanks

From my experience with a foam tube with a tear partway down it, any cut or tear in the foam will show up as a bright line in that part of the blade, since the plastic outer tube isn't quite a tight enough fit to smoosh the foam together at the cut. So I'd say it'd be a bad idea to cut the foam open...

[(null).exe]

A 35° viewing angle doesn't sound like enough for this application, though.

The LEDs Sloth used in his RotJ were these: http://tinyurl.com/slothsleds and have a 30° view angle @ 7200-21000 mcd. So we know that if you're linking 90 of them together, that viewing angle works fine :D


From my experience with a foam tube with a tear partway down it, any cut or tear in the foam will show up as a bright line in that part of the blade, since the plastic outer tube isn't quite a tight enough fit to smoosh the foam together at the cut. So I'd say it'd be a bad idea to cut the foam open...

Would it work to put the LED string in through the slice, then seal the foam tube closed by wrapping it with some clear cellophane packing tape?

[Badkitty]

is there a maximum current the MR board can handle? would it be able handle say 2 led strings? with 2 18650 3.7 Li-ion 3000mah batteries in parallel ? hyst trying to get the aboslute brightest i can ..i only want to make one saber and not redo it again later.

i made a ladder with those LED i ordered...brighter than the MR stock blade , but ya it aint gonna cut it. i want more

[Azmaria Dei]

the LED drivers on MR boards put out right at about 1000mA @ 3.5V.

[Skottsaber]

...but

If you have the technical know how, you could change the transistors on the board for more current...

[Badkitty]

i take it that is full output for all 6 led leads combined. so if sloth used 90 led pulling 20ma each , thats 1800mah ,, how is his so bright if the leds arent getting full current? maybe i'm missing something , but thats how i'm seeing it.

[Azmaria Dei]

i take it that is full output for all 6 led leads combined. so if sloth used 90 led pulling 20ma each , thats 1800mah ,, how is his so bright if the leds arent getting full current? maybe i'm missing something , but thats how i'm seeing it.

i'm still trying to figure that one out myself...

[pointoforigin]

http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=27559.0
This thread on FX has some crazy awesome research going on into string brightness. Being direct drive though, I doubt that the MR board would even begin to handle it. It would be possible to use a transistor system like is used on the cheap Hasbro boards to make each section light up correctly, but this would take a LOT of wiring. You would basically have to replicate the transistor setup six times.

No idea if you want to go that extreme lol.

[Badkitty]

ya..........alittle overboard. 15mins of on time for 12 batteries. no thanks.

[Badkitty]

i did a search but found no mention of these type of leds being used....Has anyone tried Flat Top 180 view angle or Straw Hat 120-140view angle LEDs ? I found some greens at 16k mcd , 20ma , 3.2v Just seems to me that having 60-70degrees of light would be better than 15-30 degrees .

if the view angle means that 30degree total spread from the tip , so 15degree out to each side (thinking in 2D on paper) , wouldnt there by more light hitting the blade from each LED with a spread of 60-70degree on each side ?

[pointoforigin]

Yes. If I remember Wilson's post on FX correctly, he was experimenting with the emitter angles and one of the things that was found was that the wider the angle, the more corn on the cob. I could be misremembering that, but the slightly tighter angles diffused off the back of the LED in front of it in the string, loosing some of the corn.

I'm pretty sure that because he had like a million LEDs per inch he didn't have this problem, but for a standard spaced blade, you may. Someone with more experience may prove me wrong here though.

[Badkitty]

i just tried flattening and drilling some leds like in the link u posted... definately brighter. not too much work either..for 12led it took 5mins to flatten(bench grinder with flap disc) and bit the tip concave with standard 1/8'' bit.. done quickly it was very sloppy and uneven but i can see the theory.

I wonder if drilling the tips slightly of those straw hat leds would refract the light that is going straight into the bottom of the next led , outward towards the blade instead.

[Skottsaber]

I wonder if drilling the tips slightly of those straw hat leds would refract the light that is going straight into the bottom of the next led , outward towards the blade instead.

Sounds like a good idea.