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View Full Version : German Padawani needs some Advice :)



stig
02-09-2011, 03:22 PM
Hey guys and gals!

Firstly, I'd just like to say what an amazing forum this is, Especially the "parts list" section is great, as a beginner, like I am, it really feels very confusing and you always kinda have that feeling that you forgot something! So at least that's taken care of haha!

Anyhow, I am just about to order, or well, I'm in the planning of my first saber. Because it is just that, my first saber, I won't go with sound, I really have no experience with electronics so that'd just be too much for me for the first project!

Although, I think you all know what I mean here, I'd still like to add that 'personal touch'. Since I'm going for a basic design, that gets a little difficult. So what I wanted to do is use a yellow ring Illuminated Switch. Again, I don't really have any experience, do you think that it's possible for me as a no0b? And also, what basic hilt do I select? Does it need a larger switch hole? Do I go with the guarded switch hole or the standard one? I looked through the wiring guide for the illum. switches on the store site, didn't quite get it, can someone help?

Also I have concerns about the size of the hilt, if the electronics will fit inside to be exact. Please let me know what you think. (I chose the shorter type 2 choke)

Oh and one more thing: What do you recommend for securing the batt. pack in the hilt? In the video tutorial it said use insulation, but I read in another post to use the speaker mount V2? What do you think?

Anyways, here's my list:

- LED Blade Holder 4
- MHS Choke 2 (there's my size concerns.)
- Hilt Style 4
- Pommel style 8
- MPS Clip
- MPS insert 12
- P4 Electronics Kit
- Service: Drill and Tap hole
- Blue thumb screw

- DPDT Yellow Illum. Ring Switch
- AV Bezel
- 220 ohm 1/4 resistor (that the right one?)

- 26 gauge wire, red and black (if I use the illum. switch, should I get another colour too?)
- Some 1/16" heatshrink


I'm not quite sure about what blade I will use yet. I'd like to go with a medium long blade, I really hate the handling of the standard FX blade length, I'll think about that...


Sorry for the long post, many questions, but I don't wanna mess up my first saber! :)


Thanks for taking your time and helping out the newbs, this is great! *thumbs up*



greetings from northern Germany,


Stig

mihunai
02-09-2011, 04:08 PM
Hey guys and gals!

Firstly, I'd just like to say what an amazing forum this is, Especially the "parts list" section is great, as a beginner, like I am.
It really feels very confusing and you always kinda have that feeling that you forgot something!
So at least that's taken care of haha!

Anyhow, I am just about to order the parts for my first saber.
I won't go with sound.
I really have no experience with electronics so sound would be just be too much for me for the first project!

Although, I think you all know what I mean here, I'd still like to add that 'personal touch'.
Since I'm going for a basic design, that gets a little difficult.
So what I wanted to do is use a yellow ring Illuminated Switch.
Q: I don't really have any experience, do you think that it's possible for me as a noob?
A: Yes. If you can solder two wires together, and know the basics of electronics
(the whole + and - thing) you should be able to wire it.

Q: And also, what basic hilt do I select?
A: That completely depends on what design you like (as long as follow the basic MHS
construction guide)

Q: Do I go with the guarded switch hole or the standard one?
A: This one can literally be found on the forums, and the store description states it
quite clearly as well, i believe.

Q: I looked through the wiring guide for the illum. switches on the store site, didn't
quite get it, can someone help?
A: Yes, someone most certainly can! :)
It would help though if you told us if there is something specifically you did not
understand, or if you don't know the basics of electronics yet.

Q: Also I have concerns about the size of the hilt, if the electronics will fit inside to be
exact.
Please let me know what you think. (I chose the shorter type 2 choke)
A: Since you will be doing no sound, you only need space for batteries and a resistor/buckpuck
inside the main hilt section. With the resistor/buckpuck being the size of a lump of
sugar, it will definately fit in there.

Q: Oh and one more thing: What do you recommend for securing the batt. pack in the
hilt?
In the video tutorial it said use insulation, but I read in another post to use the
speaker mount V2?
What do you think?
A: This i will leave to the other forum members who may have a more varied approach
to this.

Anyways, here's my list:

- LED Blade Holder 4
- MHS Choke 2 (there's my size concerns.)
- Hilt Style 4
- Pommel style 8
- MPS Clip
- MPS insert 12
- P4 Electronics Kit
- Service: Drill and Tap hole
- Blue thumb screw

- DPDT Yellow Illum. Ring Switch
- AV Bezel
- 220 ohm 1/4 resistor (that the right one?)

- 26 gauge wire, red and black (if I use the illum. switch, should I get another colour too?)
- Some 1/16" heatshrink

I'm not quite sure about what blade I will use yet. I'd like to go with a medium long blade, I really hate the handling of the standard FX blade length, I'll think about that...

Sorry for the long post, many questions, but I don't wanna mess up my first saber! :)

Thanks for taking your time and helping out the newbs, this is great! *thumbs up*

greetings from northern Germany,


Stig
I hope that answers some of your questions, and I
also hope you don't mind me rearanging the text to something I personally
find more pleasant to look at ;-)

mTm

stig
02-09-2011, 05:29 PM
Thanks for your quick reply!

No, of course I don't mind :)


Although, I think you all know what I mean here, I'd still like to add that 'personal touch'.
Since I'm going for a basic design, that gets a little difficult.
So what I wanted to do is use a yellow ring Illuminated Switch.
Q: I don't really have any experience, do you think that it's possible for me as a noob?
A: Yes. If you can solder two wires together, and know the basics of electronics
(the whole + and - thing) you should be able to wire it.

Well, I do have a basic understanding of electronics. Very basic though ;) It can all be solved with logic, of that I'm sure. And seing so many others constructing these amazing sabers,
many wich you can really only call art, I feel rather confident that I can do it :)

Looking at the Diagram on the site, the part I'm having problems with is... well the Illuminated switch part :D I just have no clue what cables to connect to what on the switch!
Also, this may sound stupid, any advice on how to do the "t-part" where one wire goes straight onto another like it shows on the diagram (I'm sorry if I don't know the specific words, electronics hasn't been my interest until now, and I don't even know those words in German most likely. I guess I'd call it intersection in German, I hope that helps you understand what part I mean ;) ) BTW: I'd like the switch to light up when I press it, while the blade is lit. I am just really confused with all the NO1 NC1 C1 C2 and so on. Is there any difference in wiring if I choose a momentary switch? Doesn't that mean it (the saber) only lights up while the switch is pressed?

And does the led-switch dim the light of the saber itself a lot?

Any help by someone who has installed such a switch would be awesome!

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just becoming more and more confused...
Thanks in advance,

Stig

EDIT: So I've looked through the tutorials again, I have to use the "guarded style switch hilt", right? Please don't get me wrong - I've been reading for days, I really just want to make sure I don't make any stupid mistakes :)

Silver Serpent
02-10-2011, 06:50 AM
The "t-part" is a splice. It's not complicated to do, but sometimes holding the wires together while you're soldering them will make you frustrated. Trim the insulation off three pieces of wire, tin them, and then carefully solder each wire together, joining at the same intersection. After the solder joint is cooled, you will want to give it a slight tug to make sure the joint is secure. Then apply heat shrink to keep it safe.

On the illuminated switch, you see 8 different terminals.

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Assets/ProductImages/layout.jpg

C1, NO1, and NC1 work with each other. C2, NO2, and NC2 do the same. The C terminal is the common terminal that you should attach to one of the wires from your battery pack. The NO terminal is the Normally Open terminal that you should lead to your LEDs. You can ignore the NC terminal in this saber.

The LED terminals marked + and - are for the LED in the switch. You will want to wire the switch LED in PARALLEL with your main LED. If you don't know the difference between series and parallel wiring, you will want to read a bit more, or check wikipedia. It explains far better than I can. On each leg of your parallel circuit, you will need to have an appropriate resistor for the LED on that leg. I don't know what kind of batteries you're using, so I can't help with which resistors to choose. There is a helpful resistor calculator on the store's site which I use, and it has most of the common options to select from.

Don't worry, the LED in the switch won't dim your saber.

I hope I didn't confuse you more, and good luck with your build!

stig
02-10-2011, 07:08 AM
Thanks for your reply!

Well I'll be using the P4 Kit, so that'd be 6 V huh?
You said I have to use two resistors. You mean for both (the one in the switch and the one lighting the blade) LEDs, not two resistors only for the switch, right?
Well, I have a basic understanding of parallel wiring, seems I didn't sleep all through 6th grade! :D

Thanks for your help, I still don't quite get it, but this sure cleared it up a bit! I'm getting there :D

kind regards,


Stig

Silver Serpent
02-10-2011, 07:20 AM
With the 4 AAA battery holder, you'll have 6V using regular alkaline batteries. You could choose to use AAA NiMH rechargeables instead, those would come out to 4.8V total.

And you are correct, you will need one resistor for the switch LED, and another for the main LED.

stig
02-10-2011, 07:34 AM
Okay! Another noob question: If I have a resistor installed for the Switch-LED, isn't the voltage then too low for the main LED? Wait, isn't this where the parallel wiring does it's part... Interesting! I shall do some more research


Thanks! Got me a little closer again :)


Stig

dgdve
02-10-2011, 07:49 AM
Heya Welcome,

I can tell your really jumping in head first.. there's only one piece of advice I can offer to you... take it slowly.. maybe read through a few of the stickies before you tackle it.. then be patient.. some things are so easy once you have the parts in hand but so confusing on paper(like recharge ports).. My advice.. dont order anything not one piece until you have your wiring all figured out.

Now to answer your question you will indeed be running a parallel/(its own wires) circuit for the switch LED with the resistor (doesnt matter which leg, but I keep switchs on pos+ and resistors on neg- sides). I hope that helps

EDIT!: you know you can use a "dummy" cell to drop the voltage from 6v to 4.5v(on standard batteries) out of the battery pack, that will allow you to shrink the size of resistors you need ;)

tankhog
02-10-2011, 10:26 AM
As I've been eyeballing getting myself an illuminated switch also I'll throw in my two cents -

As he's running just the led ( no soundboard or driver) doesn't he need just a spst switch instead of the dpdt?
Silver serpent's post above about wiring the switch up but ignoring the normally closed terminals,
What effect would that have? Having to press the switch either twice to activate or twice to deactivate?

My understanding of using the dpdt switches (especially with running a board or driver) is that people usually use a separate power supply for the LED and then a separate power supply for the board, hence needing the two 'on positions' in the one switch...

But then again I could be out to lunch as I have zero exp with the illuminated switches!

Jedi-Loreen
02-10-2011, 10:38 AM
Yes, from what we know of what he's using, so far, he only needs a SPST switch, but if he wants an illuminated one, the Store only has them in DPDT form.

You can wire your switch to use the NO and C terminals. In this configuration, your switch button would be depressed when off, then up when you turn it on. I believe Jay-gon does his switches that way now because he likes the look of the button being up when the saber is turned on better than when it's depressed.

2 power supplies are not usually needed, but, depending on the current output of the sound board, some people want/need to directly drive, or use a buck puck for their LED on one circuit of the switch, and power the sound board on another.

stig
02-10-2011, 11:02 AM
Hey! Well, looks like there are illum. SPST switches :P Didn't even notice! http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/SPST-Momentary-green-dot-Illuminated-switch-P586.aspx

So to my understanding, I would have to order another service, the "recessed AV switch hole service" to get this to work. There's only 4 connections on that one, that looks a lot easier! And from what I can see, it'd save me some room in the saber.

Another thing, these are all momentary. From what I found it in my little research, doesn't that mean the blade is only lit while I press the button?

I'd like the switch to be lit ONLY when the blade is lit.

Thanks for the help

Stig

Jedi-Loreen
02-10-2011, 11:07 AM
The momentary switches are only used with certain types of sound boards, like from the cheaper toy Hasbro sabers, you won't use one if you're not using that type of sound board, you still need a latching type of switch. Those are only in the Store as DPDT switches. That's why I completely ignored those momentary switches when making my last post.

stig
02-10-2011, 11:20 AM
Oops! Then I'll have to forget about the illuminated switch because all the latching illum. switches are sold out! Hmm, a shame, but that will make my first build easier, and I will have more time to learn more about electronics! Thanks for the help people!
Is it okay to post my complete list here later?

After looking through the shop again and looking at some of the diagrams, I've decided to go with a red LED indicator! That I like even more than the Illuminated switch. To get it to light up along with the blade and be turned of while the blade is, I only have to install it "behind" the switch right?
Also, does anyone know if there is a service for drilling an appropriate hole for the AccLed? http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Red-LED-indicator--P114.aspx

EDIT: After converting the inch dimensions into the for me familiar mm dimensions, I decided to drill myself :)

Man, all the electronics stuff I learned in school is coming back :D Suddenly I understand parallel wiring haha

Thanks for the quick relpies and the help, this is a great forum!


Stig

Alright, here's my updated list:

Hilt / Main metal parts:
-Main Hilt Style 2 (guarded switch hole)
-MPS Pommel 10
-MHS Choke 2
-LED Blade Holder 4
-MPS Insert 12
-MPS Clip

Service: Drill & Tap hole for blade ret. screw

Screws:
-8-32x.3 Black Thumb Screw

Electronics:

-Seoul P4 Kit Green LED / resistor variant
-SPTS Latching Guarded switch, Red button.
-RED LED Indicator (Acc.Led2)
(- Resistor 220 ohm 1/4W)


As for the blade, I'm not sure yet. I was thinking of a lenght of about 30 inches, as I really hate the handling of such longer blades (MR standard for instance)

This is what I thought:
-TCSS Style Showblade 1" OD / 30" length
-10° Collimator Lens

I like the TCSS style blade better than the corbin style, is there (as the name suggest) a big difference in Brightness, evenness of the light between the Display blade and the Battle blade?
I've been looking through the lenses, would the choice of a 10° lens for a 30 inch display blade be right? (Please don't accuse me of laziness, I've read through the tutorials and lens threads, I'm just making sure :) )

Thanks a lot,


Stig

tankhog
02-10-2011, 03:18 PM
The blade choice is really personal preference. I've got a tcss show blade and a Corbin style battle blade. Personally I like how the blade looks better with the tcss one. But still it's apples to oranges as the show blades thinner polycarbonate than the battle blade.
I think there's quite a bit of trial and error with this hobby till you find what you like. I've revised my build many times already. In fact I'm in the process of tearing apart my first build for the third time because I've decided on another way to organize the guts! The more I look at stuff the grander my plans become.
It's easy to get carried away with all this!

stig
02-10-2011, 03:25 PM
It's easy to get carried away with all this!

amen dude... That's exactly what I thought!

Say I use a 5 degree lens... I've heard you need to do some modding to make it fit inside the lens holder. Is it that little...knob that's in the way? http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4808&d=1295897601

Azmaria Dei
02-10-2011, 03:37 PM
amen dude... That's exactly what I thought!

Say I use a 5 degree lens... I've heard you need to do some modding to make it fit inside the lens holder. Is it that little...knob that's in the way? http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4808&d=1295897601

nope - the little knob thingy is needed - you need to sand the edges where the holder clips to it just a bit so the lip isn't quite as thick. takes like 20 seconds and is easy.

stig
02-10-2011, 03:59 PM
Okay thanks! Alright. I'm getting more and more confused with blades. Everybody seems to have a different opinion.
What I want is a 30" blade, Green P4, that is bright and evenly lit, what blade / lens would you recommend?

Stig

Azmaria Dei
02-10-2011, 04:27 PM
for a 30" blade? either the 5 degree or 8.7 degree lens and probably the TCSS blade if you want pre-made blades.

stig
02-10-2011, 04:38 PM
8,7? Isn't 10 the right choice? I thought I read something in the lens thread that if you're using a thin walled blade under 35" to use a 10° lens. Just askin', since only 5° and 10° is selectable in the kit ;)

Azmaria Dei
02-10-2011, 04:42 PM
it all really comes down to personal preference. if you go to this thread then you'll get some good info on lens degrees as well. http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?2744-Understanding-lens-degrees

stig
02-10-2011, 04:44 PM
Okay, I think I'll go with a 10° for now, as that is in the kit. I'm sure this won't be my last saber so I will surely read more, and gain more knowledge.
So other than that, is my list okay?

As I will need some extra wire, what should I choose? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the US system (gauges and so on) Is this http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/26-gauge-wire-P284.aspx even isolated?
Same for the heatshrink, what should I use?


Thanks for the great help guys, really appreciate it!

Stig

tankhog
02-10-2011, 05:34 PM
The higher the gauge the thinner the wire. I'm using 22g and it seems to be working just fine. Not too thin and weak but not that big or rigid either. I think it's a good compromise.

In regards to your list: You should check the math for your resistor. It's based on what batteries you choose to use but I think you need a bigger one for the p4. I think the forward voltage off those is 3.25. I'm not sure though as I've been working with a luxIII myself.

stig
02-10-2011, 05:40 PM
Hey, thanks for the clear up! I'll buy a couple of feet of 26 gauge since it's so cheap and he only has that wire in diff colours... If that turns out to be too thin, I'm sure there is wire in Germany ;) :D

Thanks!

If someone could confirm my list to be okay, that'd be awesome :)

Stig

Azmaria Dei
02-10-2011, 08:35 PM
list looks ok to me. check the resistors you need for the kit and the accent LED against the chart one more time to make sure those are right for your battery pack voltage though. i don't see anywhere where you said what batteries you'll be using, so i can't actually say positively since the resistors for 6V and 4.8/4.5V are different.

stig
02-10-2011, 08:41 PM
I'll use the 6V battery pack that comes with the kit. So that'd be the 3,3 ohm 5W resistor for the Main LED and 220 ohm 1/4 W resistor for the AccLed, am I correct?

Azmaria Dei
02-10-2011, 08:51 PM
for use with a 6V battery pack yes. ^_^

stig
02-10-2011, 08:53 PM
Awesome! I shall order tomorrow :D

Thanks for all the help people!

Azmaria Dei
02-10-2011, 08:55 PM
Awesome! I shall order tomorrow :D

Thanks for all the help people!

any time love. that's what we're here for. ^_^

stig
02-11-2011, 06:22 AM
Just placed my order! Can't wait! :D Now I shall use the time to do my research and learn more about electronics :)

stig
02-24-2011, 07:40 AM
Alright, parts have arrived, I shall be building :P

Only question I have is this: The LED has several '+' and '-' "ports" (sorry, again I don't know the English terminology), wich ones should I solder to? Does it make a difference? Just pick two that are opposite of eachother?

Thanks


Stig

dgdve
02-24-2011, 07:49 AM
1) Test fit your lens holder BEFORE you solder (that way you can see where you need to avoid with your wiring)

2) ALWAYS ONLY SOLDER AN LED SCREWED DOWN TO THE HEATSINK (no exceptions)

3) Be patient and always tin your wires... ooo I'm excited for you

EDIT!: O and you can test basically every LED with a 2aa battery holder(that way you dont need to wire a resistor to lite her up as a test).. but I know you got this np

stig
02-24-2011, 07:54 AM
Thanks! Still, the question remains ,the LED has several '+' and '-' "ports" (sorry, again I don't know the English terminology), wich ones should I solder to?

Azmaria Dei
02-24-2011, 09:18 AM
when you screw the LED to the heatsink and place the lens holder over it, use the pads closest to the other set of holes.

stig
02-24-2011, 12:59 PM
Woooohooo, I'm done! I shall be posting pics in the Gallery :D