Crystals

[parfaitelumiere]

Hello,

As a Mineral collector (http://www.mindat.org/user-17264.html#2) I like crystals.
I collect especially matrix specimens,rare species,ge crystals,and colored small samples.
And now,as a lightsaber enthusiast I have a new interest in small loose crystals I didn't even watch before.
I think it's easy to find good focusing crystals,using waterclear dt quartz.
I Was thinking about what could be a perfect primary crystal,instead of a colored led...
I have taken a look at mineral species,and made a compromise between color,transparency,availability,price,and physical and chemical poperties(no home made or salt crystal here,just true gems)
For blue crystal,just a deep colored aquamarine.
For green crystals,just a very well formed forsterite,or a quite big chrome-diopside from Tanzania.
Red crystals are really harder to find:
Elongated shape,red color,tranparency and availability,it's really hard.
I think nobody wants to put a 200$ rhodochrosite scalenohedron in a saber:wrong color,rarity,and weakness.
I thougt about red garnets,but shape is not the best for a crystal chamber,however I will try.
I thought about orange kyanite from Tanzania,but it's hard to find a short and thick crystal,most are long an narrow.
About synthetic materials,it could be possible with spinel,corundum and cz zirconia,but it's necessary to cut them,so it increases the price.
However I think for red crystals the best choice would be synthetic,to be more accurate to the sith spirit.
I think the best choice would be hydrothermal synthetic corundum,because of a crystalline shape,good color and transparency,and....synthetic work.

Here are some natural crystals:
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/p1070017.jpg

top: rough rhodochrosite and spinel
left: polished(top) and rough(bottom) dt quartz
center: polished colorless,blue and green primary crystals.
right:two rough forsterite crystals.

The biggest crystal is the 25mm rhodochrosite from Quebec.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/p1070019.jpg

[parfaitelumiere]

About the polishing I use a flat glass,and diamond paste.
I keep the original crystal faces,and polish to 0,5 micron grit.


Here are 3 crystals:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/3_cris12.jpg

left: rough
Middle: 2 micron finish
right: 0,5 micron finished

The biggest crystal is 3/4"-19mm long

[Azmaria Dei]

double posting is bad, but from the looks of it, you found the upload per post cap, so there's no real helping it...

so you seriously polished those in the last picture? can we talk you into doing a tutorial on that in the Miscellaneous area? that'a just amazing how you got that effect on that center one and especially the right one. that center one should light up incredibly well in a saber. i really have to take some pictures of the crystals i have now. yes, i think you have quite a bit you're bringing to this hobby. ^_^

EDIT:: here they are. ^_^ all 10 pictures are in my Picasa Album (http://picasaweb.google.com/azmariaxelloss/Crystals?authkey=Gv1sRgCMGguK3cp6T3OA&feat=directlink), but here's a couple of the best ones i think. ^_^

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_k8Kp4lNYp8g/TTwmUCko3oI/AAAAAAAABsA/AAaV6Ww7FCs/s640/P1230081.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_k8Kp4lNYp8g/TTwmS3g1BjI/AAAAAAAABrU/4qKEWwsTQyg/s640/P1230075.JPG

[Skottsaber]

Wow! Very informative!
I love it when people who can bring knowledge to the hobby make posts like this.

I've heard that for red crystals some people use industrial Rubies?

[parfaitelumiere]

I didn't exactly understand your first purpose,maybe you mean I would edit the first post and add what is in the second into the first?
I'm french...

The center is really light diffusing.It helps especially if you have some cracks inside.
And it takes really less time to polish than the one of the right.

Here is the rough:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/brut_10.jpg

5 micron finish:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/5m10.jpg

and 2 micron finish:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/2m10.jpg

Here is the retro led effect:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/p1070020.jpg

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/p1070021.jpg

I think it would be more diffusing by grinding the led head,and gluing on crystal with cyanoacrylate.

It's easy to see the diffusing effect on surface,when correctly polished it give a pinkish orang surface effect,maybe something to see with "raleight diffusion"?!
However,what I'm looking for is a perfect polished surface,no diffusing crystal,but a waterclear crystal.

edit:

For Azmaria Dei,I think the rough crystals here can't do the job,but it's easy to find good stuff,especially if you live in USA.
Just type"herkimer" on ebay,it is perfect for primary colorless crystals,no need to polish,it's the better quartz crystal in the world.
However it won't match if you want a elongated crystal,elongated crystals are quite harder to find,especially small,clear,and perfectly dt.

For everyone,I will try to make a tutorial,I don't know what to say,it's easy and difficult:
-what is easy is to polish,use 5,2.5,1 and 0.5 micron diamond paste,and a glass.
-what is difficult is to maintain the crystal in the correct position,especially on very small facets,I do it by the hand only.

[Azmaria Dei]

ok, i REALLY want a full tutorial now... please? ^_^

[parfaitelumiere]

For the tutorial:
You have to find a good clear crystal,as veat as possible,and with minor scratches as possible,because scratches(especially on terminations)are really hard to remove.

Tools:
-some diamond paste from 10 to 0,5 micron
-some cooking oil to make the diamond paste more liquid.
-a glass sheet,thickness doesn't matter,but not to thin if you want it not to break.
-a paper roll
-liquid soap
-toothbrush
-some skill and patience,it's the most important.

First step,you have to polish with the coarst grit.
-you put some diamond paste on the glass,you put drop of oil,and place the crystal.
You can prepare you crystalposition on the dry glass,you put it on the glass,and try to feel how it "sticks" the best,when you find it,you know how to place the crystal to keep the original face position,and geometry.

Wrong:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/wrong10.png

Correct:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/correc10.png

You polish the crystal,in the first time a really soft pressure,to remove reliefs,then you can apply a stonger pressure.
You have to find your own may about crystal moving(circles,straight up-down,or only straight in one direction(the best way to maintain crystal position for really small face)
You clean the crystal often to verify the position,you can see how the paste grinds the crystal.
When the face is entirely grinded,you go to the next face,from the smallest to the largest,so from the most difficult to the easiest.
When you have finished with a grit,you clean the crystal and glass,you must be carefull with cleaning,it's the most important.
Then you work with thiner grit:10,5,2,1 and 0,5 micron.
You can cross the grinding lines,to see if the previous grinding is totally removed with the new one(for example,begin with 10 in the axis,and use the 5 at 90° axis)

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/lines10.png


To obtain glossy luster you can use a thin paper,you put it on the glass,put some 0,5 paste on paper,and polish the crustal on the paper,it will give the luster.
here is the stuff:glass,diamond paste and the paper for the glossy result.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/79/67/37/p1070022.jpg

[Azmaria Dei]

that all makes sense for the most part. you have a few misspellings, but it's all 'crystal' clear to me. ^_^ thanks love! your English is actually rather good, and your american is superb too!

it really does amaze me how many french people i've met that speak good english. but then again it seems only americans aren't multi-lingual...

[parfaitelumiere]

Most of my interests are in american language,other in japanese,but for japanses I use google translater...
English or american are quite easy to read,but really hard to hear,so I listen movies with subtitles when it's possible!
It's difficult for SW fanfilms...
Here in France,fan films are so poor,I would make a small movie about saber genesis,with crystal quest,polishing,and saber construction,failures and success,to the first ignitition and saber use.
I would something between SF and the spirit of ancient japanese sword makers
But I think for a good movie,american guys are better.
Even cheesy actors are better than french actors,who are like statues...

About synthetic ruby,the main problem is that most of them are made with "procédé verneuil",it's not a crystal,but a kind of glass,so there are no crystal faces.
When there are hydrothermal process,most of the times,the crystals are big,so it's necessary to cut them...
I'm looking for zincite,I think it's quite easier to find,but what about the colors,I hope zincite can have good red color.

[Sunrider]

Thanks for the information. I have been looking for a way to get a good finish on quartz. I have found it pretty easy to cut and polish down to a 5 micron finish with a diamond coated disk on my dremel. But I was stuck at that point. I will have to try your method. :D

[Jedi-Loreen]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for the information about crystals. :)

[parfaitelumiere]

Whenever you don't get to what you want,you can send me the crystal,I can polish crystals,can be a trade for other things,no problem.

[noslenpar]

Great info, thanks for sharing.
I love crystal chambers, the saber part, not the member of this forum whom I've never met.
People have been getting so intricate and detailed with their crystal chambers, this will surely help to elevate the level of detail and craftsmanship.

[parfaitelumiere]

I have find some crystal holders,made of pure tungsten,to resist high temperature,in case of malfunction and if the crystal heats.
Will sit perfectly in the cortosis alloy lightsaber handle^^

[cardcollector]

it really does amaze me how many french people i've met that speak good english. but then again it seems only americans aren't multi-lingual...

What do you call it when a person speaks in three languages? Trilingual

What do you call it when a person speaks in two languages? Bilingual

What do you call it when a person speaks one language? American

[Azmaria Dei]

What do you call it when a person speaks in three languages? Trilingual

What do you call it when a person speaks in two languages? Bilingual

What do you call it when a person speaks one language? American

lol that's actually the joke i was referencing! ^_^ i'm glad someone picked up on it.

[Loachri MacTalabh]

Thanks parfaitelumiere, I love all the information on Crystals. I thank it is worthy of being a Sticky.

I'm american and I do know 3 languages. English, Scottish Gaelic, and Sign Language. But it's American Sign Language, does that count?

I did like cardcollectors joke

[captain_mills]

Thanks for the info!

A couple of questions I came up with:
1) Can any of these be grown (specifically the green ones) using household stuff? I'm a physicist, not a chemist.

2) If they can't/shouldn't be grown, do you have any suggestions where things like these can be purchased?

Thanks again!
CM

[Skottsaber]

+1 for a sticky, and not just for the hilarious jokes :D

[parfaitelumiere]

Captain_Mills,

As I told in the first post,it's not question about home growns crystals.

Most of them are from copper,or aluminium with a percent of water inside,all of them are fragile and fear dry and hot conditions,like in a lightsaber.

These crystals will dessicate.

I'm not sure about it,but I think they will produce some gaz that can attack electronic components.

It's not a good choice for a lightsaber.

I discovered lightsabers in December.
One of the first pics I have seen is the "anakin cutaway"showing crystals,diatum cell,and all elements of a lightaber if it would really exist,between laser and plasma concept and quartz electric poperties.

Of course it's scientifically incredible...

But I like this design of original shape of the crystals,and the fact a jedi has to spend hours to choose and polish them.

It really makes me think about ancient japanese warriors,and their sabers.

Of course for the stones I thought immediately about gems that are commonly used in jevelry,to bring a kind of "precious" value to saber,especially for the crystal chamber,like the heart of a precious clock.

Green crystals are forsterite
Come from Pakistan,Egypt(The best crystals known,from"St John Island",near egypt,it's a military place for decades,for a short movie,just change it for a planet,and centuries...)
Can be found in USA too,California,good colored crystals,but roughly shaped.

Blue crystals are aquamarine
Come from Brazil,Pakistan,Usa,and lots of places in the world.
Color,shape can vary from a place to another.

The most difficult to find in a waterclear well shaped crystal with good color and shiny luster.
It's valuable for aqua,and other colored species,especially on forsterite,these crystals are near never shiny.

[Azmaria Dei]

just be careful... you can't sell things here, but you can over on FX-sabers.

[parfaitelumiere]

Really sorry,I didn't know.
I was talking about a idea for the future,there are so many thing to do before...
I have modified the post.

About fx sabers,no way to obtain register number,I don't know why,I tried to register with my two email addresses(I thought the first did't work).
I will wait,if it doesn't work,I don't know how to do,I would keep same username,and no way to contact them to solve the problem.
And I don't want to create lots of accounts and new email addresses,if it doesn't work,it's just a shame not to post threads,but it's possible to read existing ones.

[Skottsaber]

Yeah FX is having email problems at the moment. Hopefully they will be resolved soon.

[Knighthammer]

Good & informative thread (and some good jokes =) )

[Bothrops]

just be careful... you can't sell things here, but you can over on FX-sabers.

Dangit, I was just gonna ask where to get some dilithium crystals to power my warp drives~!

[Azmaria Dei]

Dangit, I was just gonna ask where to get some dilithium crystals to power my warp drives~!

dilithium crystals!?! hit by klingon missiles!?!

^_^

[Alcfalath]

For my crystal uses, I tend to use numerous harder natural crystals, that are cut and polished to an extent. For most builds with crystal chambers, I use mostly standard (longer) quartz points (varying between clear quartz, smokey quartz and milky quartz) with varying degrees of growth showing on the inside (phantom quartz), adding to a very nice refraction of light when used in the chamber. The colour I use would be dependant on the LEDs I used. Being that they refract most of the light, I polish the inside of the chamber areas to a shine, causing the chamber to be exceptionally bright, both from the crystals refraction, and the reflection of the chamber itself.

However, for more personal builds (for myself and for presents) I tend to get creative, and vary away from the standard Quartz's. Depenant on what the saber blade colour is, and also considering any backstory (star wars canon and such), I will use Citrine, Aqua Aura, Jadeite/Nephrite Jade, Amethyst, Isis Quartz, Rainbow Quartz, Opals, Pearls, and Topaz. When utilizing coloured gemstones, lighting them with similar and/or different colour LEDs can produce extremely unique and beautiful variations of colour, and make the saber its going into very unique.

For an example, here I have used a rough cut Rainbow Aqua Aura crystal with a Blue and Green LED, wired in series to an accent pad on a US2.5. By playing with the LEDs currents and playing around with the angles of the LEDs I managed to get an amazing Deep Aqua blue colour, that when the clash is activated 'vibrates' into a Turquiose/Sea Green colour, and when deactivating the blade, the LED changes colour from Aqua to Vibrant Green before shutting off, flashing Green with the Idle LED when in standby mode. I also dremelled some slots from the Main LED heatsink, allowing some of the P4 Green to backlight the chamber as well, for an interesting effect.

Apologies for the video being out of focus, but it shows the effect I described. And yes, that is quite loud in person...

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Alcfalath/Props/MHS%20Lightsabers/30032010307.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Alcfalath/Props/MHS%20Lightsabers/30032010306.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Alcfalath/Props/MHS%20Lightsabers/03042010326.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Alcfalath/Props/MHS%20Lightsabers/30032010321.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Alcfalath/Props/MHS%20Lightsabers/th_25012011008.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w238/Alcfalath/Props/MHS%20Lightsabers/?action=view&current=25012011008.mp4)

[parfaitelumiere]

I have a blue topaz too,but it's too large for my lightsaber.
What can be interesting are the ones from the 2010 find at Maynards claim,Thomas Range,Utah,but they are really expensive,and,the main problem is that they loose their wonderful color with daylight and UV light.
I don't really like aqua aura quartz,because it's a man made treatment on a natural crystal,and most of the time the quality is not good enough.
But I understand why lots of guys use them,easy to find,not too expensive,and it' a little bit fashionned in the saber market.
The best would be to find all good crytals,and use only white leds to let them shine,would mean crystals have the GOOD color,but it's so hard.
Some colors are too clear,or too blue for a green crystal,too yellow or purple for a red crystal,it's really hard to find the good color,especially for red crystals.
I'm looking forward to recieve the tungsten tubes^^

[Sunrider]

I respectfully disagree. I think using lasers to illuminate crystals looks best. ;)

Here are clear quartz crystals lit by a green laser.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5224579011_ab0a8bd87d_z.jpg

I prefer cut over color, so I use clear crystals. I find it difficult or super expensive to find colored crystals with nice cuts.

btw. I noticed in your collection you have some nice fluorescent reactive crystals that you could use a blu-ray laser to illuminate for a nice effect. :)

[Loachri MacTalabh]

Dangit, I was just gonna ask where to get some dilithium crystals to power my warp drives~!
Go to the dilithium mines where "That Captain and That Doctor was imprisoned.

[parfaitelumiere]

I would fear to look closely at the laser crystals.
But you are not wrong,the laser color is due to a crystal?

I like the difficult way of searching,and finding the best colored crystals.

However I understand your point of view.

[Sunrider]

I would fear to look closely at the laser crystals.
But you are not wrong,the laser color is due to a crystal?

I like the difficult way of searching,and finding the best colored crystals.

However I understand your point of view.


Fear not. Lasers that are under 500mw and are not focused will not hurt you via diffraction. I don't use focusing lenses and diffuse the beam as it goes through the chamber.

A laser makes the crystals sparkle bright in a way like they are energized. A laser can be positioned away from a crystal giving more freedom in a design, like the floating crystal in my other post


,the laser color is due to a crystal?

Not sure what you're asking.

If you are talking about the blu-ray laser, it has some UV content. When the purple beam hits a florescent crystal it will illuminate at a different color.

Link http://www.galleries.com/minerals/property/fluoresc.htm