Flash on POINT of clash

[pointoforigin]

No idea if this has been tried - I searched extensively here and elsewhere on the net - but an idea I've been toying with for a while in my head has been this:

We all like Makoto style blades. Sure, we aren't all going to go to the effort of making one, but using them as a starting point...

If you had 2 strings of LED's inside the blade, such as the v3 super blade Makoto showed us - but had only one of them hooked up to whatever board or driver you're using, you could use the other string for flash.

This is where the idea gets more complicated. And perhaps, with what we have at the moment, a bit ugly. So you do the clash string in segments of 10 LED's. Fairly normal. Just before LED 1 of each segment, you attach a clash sensor. The sensor acts as a switch to turn just that bank of LED's on. So normally it would all be off. When the corresponding part of the blade is hit, the clash sensor of that part turns on the LED segment attached.

What I'm not too sure about at the moment is these two points:

How sensitive the clash sensors that are available are. The ones for our soundboards are generally designed to "feel" a clash anywhere on the saber - so even with the wiring done this way, all the segments might light up at the same time anyway. We'd need something LESS sensitive. Which I'm thinking might have to be bigger, unfortunately. I'm not even sure you can get them to be as un-sensitive as would be needed.

How long the clash sensor closes the circuit. By nature, they're a momentary thing - so even if it did make the LED's flash, would we see it? There would have to be a way to use the clash sensor to close another switch, that stayed open for x milliseconds. I'm sure there is one - but in the space of a blade? Trying to keep out of the way of the light? That I don't know.

Issues that I can see at this point are as mentioned - components other than LED's in the blade make dark spots. Everything that wasn't an LED would have to be seriously tiny, and wired up very well.

And if you wanted to run the flash from an aux button in addition - then the clash sensors would prevent that.

It gets to being a LOT of wiring, but maybe it could be done thusly -
Current goes to the (hopefully tiny) clash sensor in the blade, then back down to the hilt. The hilt has the timed switch activated by the clash sensor in it. Current then goes back into the blade to that clash sensor's LED bank. Bank lights up and current comes back down the common anode.

With the clash activated switch being in the hilt, it could be possible to wire the aux switch to bypass the clash sensor's activation. Then we'd retain our aux button clash.

Please note - the idea is that the other string in the blade, the non-clash flash one, would be driven exactly the same as you would normally set it up - so with a Makoto board, CF, MR, driver, direct... All of my thinking here is ONLY involving the wiring of the clash flash LED string - to supplement the normal blade.

If this all worked, potentially you could have a driver board controlling each of the clash flash string segments individually as well as all of this - to make a flickering blade in segments, instead of just all of it flickering in time.

It does sound like a major headache whichever way you look at it though lol!

Any thoughts on the feasability of this concept? I'm not very electronically minded (as yet) so don't really know if I'm sprinting a marathon across lava before I can crawl.

[eastern57]

I like where your thinking is taking you. It's a rather jerky and jumpy description, but I can still see the method to your madness. ;) While it does sound feasible, the logistics and layout will need some more thought - but the original idea isn't so fantastic that it does not warrant further consideration, quite the opposite.

Long story short, the impact on the blade would be darn-near impossible to contain on a single segment. Analog clash sensors are simple enough that you could make your own for your own purpose. It's just a spring in a can that closes a circuit (a complete circuit is considered closed), and I can see myself trying this with a string of 5mm RGBs...

... But the hard part would be finding that happy medium between "how sensitive to make your flash segment"... and "how to keep the whole blade from flashing when you hit & swing it". Analog sensors are just on/off, and can't differentiate between swings, hits, and hard hits. An accelerometer might be able to tell you how hard an impact you get, but that's programming and development beyond me...

IOW, this is outside the box thinking, and the more you learn about electronics - or better yet, the more you learn to improvise on the fly - the more ideas you'll get on what to do with those skills. Keep it up... I'm gonna stew on this one for a while... :D

[pointoforigin]

Post edited so "open" now says "closed" lol. :rolleyes: Don't mind me...

I have absolutely no experience whatsoever with accellerometers, but I presume that they're quite a bit bigger than the clash sensors we have in the store, which kinda rules them out for use inside the blade. After posting though I was reading through another thread where someone had forgotten to secure their clash sensor to their saber, and it wasn't being "as effective", which for this purpose is good - so maybe it'd be possible to mount it more open air? I realise the constraints of this in the space of a blade.

Being able to tell how hard it hit would be awesome though. As well as being able to tell if pressure was still being applied - sort of "auto saber lock" if you will. I'm not sure that's realisable at the moment though :)

If it's that easy to make a clash sensor, I'm thinking that's gonna be part of the experiment - to make one that's juuuuuuust right - goes off on clash not swing, and only that segment goes off when it is hit.

Maybe mounting them horizontally rather than vertically? I don't know yet.

Don't worry people I AM planning on experimenting with the idea :) Just may take some time...

The most unfortunate thing at the moment in the design in my head is the size of the connector from hilt to blade! Say 6 segments per string, common anode. 6 cathodes for the main string. 6 cathodes for the flash string. 12 wires for the clash sensors - two each. 25 total. Holy moley that's a lot of connections... It would HAVE to be a PCB based saber to keep the jungle down, wires used only when you absolutely had to.

[eastern57]

Perhaps, it came off differently - accelerometer require programming in order to operate. I only mentioned it as to express the vast chasm that still need be hurdled... not as a suggestion.

For the impact detection, it's not a matter of mounting location or orientation - it's sensitivity. How do you "tune" an analog component? That's the toughy. Lets concentrate on one idea at a time; it's still a good idea. I think the thing to focus on at the begining would be to construct one string, to test out the clash sensor theory. If you can make a single string flash on at specific segments, then I'd say it's 'go' to move on to calibrating sensitivity... from there, maybe two strings operating simutaneously... it's a lot of work, no doubt, but good ideas are worth the work.

And I wouldn't worry about the cram-fu yet... a proof of concept (prototype) will be hard enough as it is. ;)

[Ari-Jaq Xulden]

I figured I throw this out there.I was actually thinking about this idea as well.My thoughts were to use a bi colored led with 3 legs. This way, no dark spots. There would a common leg, main led leg, and clash leg. I don't think the bi color leds are as bright though. Just throwing the idea out there.-A

[FenderBender]

This probably wont be feasible until we can use touch sensing OLED fabric blades;) Something that can sense where and impact is and then only light up that particular section with a white flash. I have had this idea for a while, unfortunately OLED material is out of my R&D budget right now.

[pointoforigin]

Yeah, OLED would definately be the way to go. I'll just pull out my spare million dollars and buy some to test lol! I'm not thinking so far ahead though, more what can we do with what we have?

Another option that wouldn't leave shadows in the blade would be laser sensors around the base of the blade, imbedded in the blade holder. If, again, you could get them small enough. Idea being - laser senses at which point the beam is broken, so a clash occurs, replacing the clash sensor in the blade - talks to a chip which tells the corresponding bank of LED's in the blade to light up.

I've been searching for lasers that would be small enough to mount in the walls of a blade holder and haven't found anything yet though. Could end up being mighty expensive as well. Maybe clash sensors is the (cheap) way to go with this.

Bi-colour or RGB LED's would work as well, and would probably take only the same amount of frustration and time to solder up as two single colour strings. It gets even more complex to think about though, which is why I suggested at the start for there to simply be 2 normal strings.

[xl97]

This probably wont be feasible until we can use touch sensing blades;)

I didnt read the whole thread.. so Im sure I missed a bunch.. (there may be more than one goal for all I know)

but you would 100% need a way to 'track' here on the blade you have hit.

I dont know if some sort of pressure switch or something can be used..

as stated using a clash or even accelerometer is like an 'all or nothing' type of detection..

maybe something like detecting how hard a hit was you could add juice/light up 1, 2, or all 3 additional led strings?

(and you can get VERY small accelerometers) ;)

and you can 'tune' in a clash sensor for example.. at least for 'sensitivity'.. but not for 'location'..(ie: knowing which section to light up)

[Matt Thorn]

Totally off the top of my head here...

If you used the setup described by pointoforigin in his first post, you could have each clash sensor hooked up to an Arduino board, and then program the board to send the "light up" signal to the section of the first sensor to react to the impact, and only to that section.

Of course, this is far easier said than done. I can tell you from my extremely modest experience with programming Arduino that even just programming to account for the "bounce" in ordinary momentary switches (which a clash sensor is one kind of) is quite tricky. Getting it to detect down to a hundredth of a second or less the first sensor activated is certainly beyond my skills. And then there's the possibility that the first sensor to react may not be the one closest to the point of impact. It might, for example, always be the one at the tip, where acceleration is greatest, or, for that matter, at the base, where deceleration is presumably greatest.

I'm not even going to try to dedicate any more of my already-overstretched brain capacity to this problem, but if someone actually works it out, I would be very interested. Having the spot of impact light up white would be very cool indeed.

[xl97]

what you stated could easily be done..in theory (at least the Arduino portion I could do no problems).. but also, like you covered.. this is in 'no way' a good approach for detecting WHERE the blade was hit.. and could in fact trigger false postives in other areas.

detecting a clash in not so hard using an anolog sensor.. (detecting a swing with one is more difficult)..

IMHO..its reverse problems/difficulty when using an accelerometer.

I like the effect proposed..kinda like when you press your finger to an LCD screen.. but on your blade..

I just think it woul dbe very hard to accomplish, effectively and still keep a transparent/illuminated blade (and not covered in some sort of feedback sensors)

[Novastar]

I hate to be the Devil's Advocate, but...

* even if you were able to use pressure-sensitive materials + LEDs...
* even if this was somehow "stable" in terms of not causing damage (over due time) to said pressure-sensitive materials + LEDs...
* even if all of this was somehow "easy on the budget" PLUS "easy to install/maintain"...

...how would it be of any significance in terms of brightness?

That is to say... we're already:

* Lighting up 2 LEDs... then "flashing" 2 more (which isn't actually SUPER effective if the same color is used)
* Throwing 1 to 4 amps at the flash LEDs, depending...

...so how would lighting a tiny section (such as in an MR-style blade) of LEDs (likely to be low-powered, aka 20mA or heck, let's say 40mA) make any kind of impact at all on the eyes... ... especially when the REMAINING LEDs (not in the impact zone) are still supposed to be fully on, at full brightness for the "main blade"??

I hope I'm not missing anything on the thread. I mean... it's a fun idea conceptually... but unless the flash + pressure + impact zone can OVERPOWER THE ENTIRE MAIN BLADE... it becomes rather useless.

[Matt Thorn]

Wait.
Déjà vu.
I sense a "dark-core saber"-type discussion developing. ;)

[Ronan]

Hehe this reminds me of the OLED prototype screens i have encountered a yearish ago when i visited a research lab of Microsoft with my old man.

[pointoforigin]

Haha Matt, I'm totally NOT getting into the discussion of "black blades". In my opinion it's called a LIGHTsaber for a reason :P

Nova, a lot of the inspiration for my idea here actually came from one of your vids on youtube. Your red blade with white flash worked brilliantly - I'm just hoping there's a way to do that in segments, rather than the whole blade at a time.

Obviously if you made the flash string the same colour as the main blade string it wouldn't be as visible - like adding two sounds that are exactly the same volume and waveform - you barely notice the difference. But if there's enough contrast, it should be noticeable. My idea kinda relies on the surrounding sections of the part of the blade that's hit also lighting up - so say for example, a 10 segment blade, segment 4 gets hit, segments 3, 4 and 5 light up.

I hear where you are with the whole brightness thing. But we all know how bright makoto blades are at any rate - if it came to it I think it'd be ok to run the main blade at a little less than optimum brightness. It'd still be a good match for say a lux iii.

I'm starting to look into programming to develop the idea - not arduino, just pic micros, because I have the stuff to do that. Just not the knowledge yet :rolleyes: but as xl97 said, the key will be the sensors, not the programming.

Heck even if we don't get the sensors right, a random flicker up or down or randomly on the blade would still be cool yeah?

[Matt Thorn]

The concept is of course fantastic. Black blades are a novelty that would appeal to a minority, but the kind of effect you're envisioning is exactly what we see on the screen, so who wouldn't want if they could get it? I just can't imagine it being a practical possibility in the next few years without a major grant from the George Lucas Foundation for the Advancement of Really Cool Stuff for Geeks. :p

[pointoforigin]

Wow that's a brilliant idea! I'll just get in contact with said society... What? GL doesn't make things easy for his fans? Who would have thought! ;)

I'm sure if he decided that he wanted things like this made it'd take them... ohh 3 days? lol. And then we'd pay about a million bucks each for them. Give or take a couple of dollars.

When we're all cyborgs, all that will need to happen is someone write a program to actively draw the blade glow over the top of the polyc, right on our eyeballs. I mean, carl zies lenses.

Actually, by the time technology gets to that level of integration with people, we'll probably have working lightsabers.

On a more serious note, if a cheap and small version of a laser measurement device was available, that would be ideal for use as a sensor. It'd have the added bonus of still being "on" when connected with something - so auto saber lock works. I'm having no luck finding ones small enough to hide in the walls of a blade holder though...

[xl97]

trust me the programming will be an obstacle too..

maybe look into using flex/pressure sensors or something..??
sorta liek these.. but better suited for your testing needs/results
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8685


still to be honest there is many flaws and problems..

example.. if you use LED like LUX.. your blade will be dull/no light.. cause all the garbage you'll have in the blade..

you use LUX cause you can dual no breaking LED STRING

using LED STRING 'could' hide sensors.. but can you cause enough impact to still 'get to the sensor' (trigger an event) with it hidden behind an LED STRING?

and if you do.. then you are risking the LED STRING BLADE itself by potential damage..

whatever.. everyone needs a goal/hobby.. as long as you have fun 'playing'..

:)

[pointoforigin]

:shock: xl97 that is freaking awesome!

They are Force-sensing! The possibilities for protection against Force Lightning...

I digress :)

Looks brilliant actually, the problem still remains with it casting a shadow, but depending how that's set up in the blade... hmmm...

Pretty sure Makoto blades hold up to duelling. I'd be worried if they didn't. All the stuff I've read indicates that they do. True if you use the string to transfer force they wouldn't last half as long... I wonder if there's a way around that? Maybe mount the LED's in another PC tube, sanded to be diffuse, and put the pressure sensor on the inside or something? So you'd end up with two pc tubes, a lot of LED's, and pressure sensors on the inside. Heavy blade much?

More thinking on this matter, I will do...

[Matt Thorn]

That Flexiforce Pressure Sensor certainly is cool, but did you notice that the sensing area is only the circular end? It doesn't tell you the position of the pressure, just how much pressure is applied to that dot. :(

[pointoforigin]

Yeah I did see that. You'd have to have several of them. But it's a starting point, it could work, maybe...

[lectricpharaoh]

Here's a possible idea. Those sites that sell robotics stuff on the web often have various sensors you can purchase, such as infrared proximity sensors. I'm not sure if the polycarbonate blades are transparent to IR or not, but it's easy enough to test (try to use your TV remote through a blade, and see if it works). Assuming they are, you could mount some of these in the blade, at various points. If one of them detected something in close proximity to a blade segment simultaneously with triggering of the standard hilt-based clash sensor, you'd flash the appropriate segment. In fact, there is this one here, which seems nice. It's cheap, it's small, and the analog output would allow you to make the flash brightness of any arbitrary segment proportionate to the proximity of a nearby object.


Of course, this is far easier said than done. I can tell you from my extremely modest experience with programming Arduino that even just programming to account for the "bounce" in ordinary momentary switches (which a clash sensor is one kind of) is quite tricky.The thing is, you don't need to worry about debouncing in this application. In fact, contact bounce would just add to the flicker effect, and could actually be a benefit in this case. That, or the bounce frequency would flicker the LED too quickly for the eye to register the flicker, and all that would be perceived is an increase in brightness (and possibly a color shift, if the clash LEDs were a different color).


...so how would lighting a tiny section (such as in an MR-style blade) of LEDs (likely to be low-powered, aka 20mA or heck, let's say 40mA) make any kind of impact at all on the eyes... ... especially when the REMAINING LEDs (not in the impact zone) are still supposed to be fully on, at full brightness for the "main blade"??I'm new to the whole electronics thing, but isn't it true you could heavily overdrive LEDs if the duration was kept short enough? If they were flickered at very short intervals, you might be able to coax a fair bit more brightness out of them, no?

[pointoforigin]

Ahh I'm liking this idea. I'm not thinking of several IR sensors in the blade though, surely that'd bring us back to the blocking light problem? But! What if like with the laser idea I had before you could mount them around the edge of the blade holder? Wouldn't have to worry about going through the polyc blade then. This assumes that these sensors have a range of about a meter, which they may not.

Matching that up with a single traditional clash sensor is genius. Again, the programming to make it all work is waaay beyond me at the moment. Maybe in a year or so lol!

I think the problem with overdriving LED's for clash only would be that you wouldn't see much of a difference. Surely you'd need it to be overdriven at least 2x the original to make it obvious at that kind of transient, and that would probably blow the LED. With a string, that's not a repair I'd like to make!

[Matt Thorn]

Here's a possible idea. Those sites that sell robotics stuff on the web often have various sensors you can purchase, such as infrared proximity sensors. I'm not sure if the polycarbonate blades are transparent to IR or not, but it's easy enough to test (try to use your TV remote through a blade, and see if it works). Assuming they are, you could mount some of these in the blade, at various points. If one of them detected something in close proximity to a blade segment simultaneously with triggering of the standard hilt-based clash sensor, you'd flash the appropriate segment. In fact, there is this one here, which seems nice. It's cheap, it's small, and the analog output would allow you to make the flash brightness of any arbitrary segment proportionate to the proximity of a nearby object.
Wow. I give you points for originality. But even without knowing anything about proximity sensors, I foresee numerous problems. Even assuming that you could adjust the sensors with such accuracy that they would react only to something within, say, 2 centimeters, that would mean you would have to space them no more than 3cm or so apart, to avoid gaps. Extending the range would allow you to space them farther apart (and therefore use fewer), but that would result in a lot more false positives, since anything within, say, 10cm would trigger a reaction.

The thing is, you don't need to worry about debouncing in this application. In fact, contact bounce would just add to the flicker effect, and could actually be a benefit in this case. That, or the bounce frequency would flicker the LED too quickly for the eye to register the flicker, and all that would be perceived is an increase in brightness (and possibly a color shift, if the clash LEDs were a different color).
Do you have experience programming microcontrollers? Because either you know a lot more than I do and know something I don't, or you are just guessing based on intuition. If it's the latter, I can tell you that it's a lot more complicated than that. Just explaining why bounce cannot be ignored would take a lot of space and time.

I'm new to the whole electronics thing, but isn't it true you could heavily overdrive LEDs if the duration was kept short enough? If they were flickered at very short intervals, you might be able to coax a fair bit more brightness out of them, no?
We tend to overdrive out sabers as it is. Show our set-ups to a real light technician and they would be be appalled at how we're shortening the life of our LEDs. But those people are dealing with LEDs that are intended to stay on for hours at a time, or even 24 hours a day, whereas as we rarely run ours for longer than 30 minutes a day, and just want them to be as bright as possible. So to get a flash that is really noticeable, you would have to have your LED(s) running pretty dim when not in clash mode.

pointoforigin, I don't even know where to begin with your follow-up. :? This conversation has yet to rise beyond the "wouldn't it be cool if..." level. We might as well be speculating about how to make real lightsabers. :p

[pointoforigin]

There's a giant thread about that over at FX anyways :)

*sigh* When I have the time and money I'll definitely start looking into the practicality of the idea, but for now, it is just that. A giant what if.

[xl97]

Do you have experience programming microcontrollers? Because either you know a lot more than I do and know something I don't, or you are just guessing based on intuition. If it's the latter, I can tell you that it's a lot more complicated than that. Just explaining why bounce cannot be ignored would take a lot of space and time.

this is not true..

bounce 'can' be a desired trait....

usually you de-bounce.. switches.. or sensors where the 'bounce'.. will trigger another interrupt/function/event...

'bounce' can (and is) a useful occourence in some features.. ;)

just sometimes you need to code to eliminate it..

I doubt any kind of HOLDER mount would work..because of the flex/bend (and hence false positives) of the blade.

Also mounting to the BH wouldnt really be a wold shoot an IR (or whatever) beam up along the blade.. be more like a motion detection (alarm type trip) than it would be for point of contact..

IMHO.. only a pressure type sensor would give you the options you desire.. however mounting them in a way/place where you can still receive/gauge the pressure.. AS WELL AS still shine light around/through all these new components..

[lectricpharaoh]

Wow. I give you points for originality. But even without knowing anything about proximity sensors, I foresee numerous problems. Even assuming that you could adjust the sensors with such accuracy that they would react only to something within, say, 2 centimeters, that would mean you would have to space them no more than 3cm or so apart, to avoid gaps. Extending the range would allow you to space them farther apart (and therefore use fewer), but that would result in a lot more false positives, since anything within, say, 10cm would trigger a reaction.If you're using a microcontroller, you can use multiple sensors in tandem. Say an object is registered 6 cm from proximity sensor A, and 4 cm from sensor B when the clash is triggered. Assuming sensors A and B are adjacent, and knowing the distance between them, we can determine the location of the clash with an acceptable amount of accuracy.


Do you have experience programming microcontrollers? Because either you know a lot more than I do and know something I don't, or you are just guessing based on intuition. If it's the latter, I can tell you that it's a lot more complicated than that. Just explaining why bounce cannot be ignored would take a lot of space and time.Programming, yes. Programming microcontrollers, no. However, I think the bounce is a non-issue in this particular situation for two reasons. First, I am assuming that the sound board has a mechanism to cope with multiple clashes in quick sequence, possibly by terminating the currently-playing clash sound sample/light sequence and starting it over. Second, for the boards that have an available auxiliary input, where the clash effect can be triggered by a button, we can assume that any necessary debouncing is handled by the card. After all, that aux button will exhibit bounce, no?


We tend to overdrive out sabers as it is. Show our set-ups to a real light technician and they would be be appalled at how we're shortening the life of our LEDs. But those people are dealing with LEDs that are intended to stay on for hours at a time, or even 24 hours a day, whereas as we rarely run ours for longer than 30 minutes a day, and just want them to be as bright as possible. So to get a flash that is really noticeable, you would have to have your LED(s) running pretty dim when not in clash mode.True, the clash brightness issue is something that is likely to be a significant hurdle. However, I've seen enough clever solutions to various problems in my life to write it off as impossible. :)

[Novastar]

I say build a proof-of-concept (which is actually how the FoC "flash on clash" thing became reality in the first place) and go from there. :) You seem dedicated enough to the idea, and that is commendable for sure!

All you'd have to start with is a "non-lit" main LED-string blade that used pressure-sensitive material to detect collision/clash in specific areas... pass that data on to your CPU/micro-controller/PIC/whatever, and then see if you could light up the correct "hot spots" on your LED string.

Color wouldn't matter (for the test), and having an already-lit "blade" would be a waste of time for now... this would keep the cost down (although later on, I guess they'd all have to be RGB(?) LEDs in order to produce different-colored responses for the flash on any given choice of your "main blade" color)...

[pointoforigin]

Yeah, that's exactly the idea. Again, time and money constraints. It would start with the most basic concept - so an LED string blade with the clash sensors from the store, see how well that works and go more complex from there - involving pressure sensors, microcontrollers etc etc.

Ideally it'd end up being either an RGB string, like you suggest Nova, or two strings - one being main and the other being flash.

Darth Real Life postpones a lot of things doesn't he?

I'm totally open to someone else trying the idea. I WILL do it, but I will do it when I can, which unfortunately might not be anytime soon.

[xl97]

I posted some sensors you should probably start with.. (not a clash sensor from the store)..

IMHO.. if you want to try and develop something like this...(or other ideas you may have)..

get yourself a dev. platform.

most publicaly available, easy to use with a large community base, would be an Arduino..

I suggest the Arduino Duemilanove, ATmega 328 version.. (this is your DEV platform.. NOT what you will try to stuff in a saber in you final project)..

runs you about $30.00


the sensors.. I posted before: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8685

maybe not THIS specific one..but thats the link to them..


suggestion:

get a few of the smaller 5 in pressure strips...and wire them up in an empty tube (in they fit)...

get your Arduino out and start testing...

not sure what resistance ro pressure (100lbs) you woudl need? that seems like but who knows..especially when dueling?

you could write a simple program that lights up an LED that matches that 'sensor' feedback...as well as 'half light' the leds on the left/right of the led you lighting in correspondance with the sensor..

there is one way to approach it.. good luck.

[TroyO]

This got me thinking about lighting the blade with an end mounted LED (The usual way) and combining it with a LED string style blade to provide the "flash on point of clash" effect.

The two don't seem to be mutually exclusive, it seems to me you could use a base mount LED in combination with string style lighting and potentially double your brightness and/or add in some effects.

It seems like the usualy base mounted LED shines "Up the tube" through and around the plastic and/or cellophane wrap but I don't think it's so much involved in the central open area. (But I could be wrong.) If I'm right, then a string could be in that space and only minimally effect the base lighting.

It could be kind of fun to play with. :-)

[pointoforigin]

You'd probably know better than me about it, TroyO. From what I gather though, light from the lux style LED uses the whatever degree lens to focus it through that space. Not to mention that the foam diffuser for the LED string would get in the way.

Someone else started a thread with this idea on FX Sabers as well, but I haven't been there in a while to see how it was going.

Unfortuantely, finances aren't at a place that I can do any kind of testing at this point in time. So unless one of the other guys does something with this, it's not going to be a reality for a while.

Heck maybe Erv' will pioneer this as well on version two or later of his LED strip CF. That would be awesome.