Brass Tubing

[Crash485]

Hey everyone, I am working on my second saber and needed some help finding brass tubing. I can find plenty for chrome plated brass tubing at hardware stores, but no brass tubing. Does anyone know of a place where I can purchase one?

Thanks

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

Try hobby stores that sell R/C cars and airplanes. That's where I got mine. They also have threaded rod in different sizes.

If you don't have any hobby stores near you, search for hobby stores online that will ship to you.

[Darth Enab]

If you get a chrome brass sink tube, you can sand it down to make is a brass color.

[Vos Malek]

Don't know where you live, but if you have an ace hardware locally they should have it in various sizes. That's where I always get mine from.

[Jedi-Loreen]

I think he means sink tube, Obi-Dar.

I've never seen brass sink tube at my Ace Hardware. :|

[alreadyRogue]

if you put 1tbsp of citric acid in 1 liter of distilled water and dissolve it, then dip the sink tube in it for about 45 minutes, it should take off all the chrome and leave the brass intact, even shiny. It may take a while but the sink tube comes out looking nice and you just saved your elbow from a lot of grease.

[Vos Malek]

I think he means sink tube, Obi-Dar.

I've never seen brass sink tube at my Ace Hardware. :|

Oh I was thinking small diameter tubing. But they DO have brass sinktube, at least at the one near my house. But they only carry them in 8" pieces.

[jin starkiller]

if you put 1tbsp of citric acid in 1 liter of distilled water and dissolve it, then dip the sink tube in it for about 45 minutes, it should take off all the chrome and leave the brass intact, even shiny. It may take a while but the sink tube comes out looking nice and you just saved your elbow from a lot of grease.

very cool tip their i will have to try that for one of my next builds that i want a brass overlay...:)

[xl97]

Gemini Boys posted a vid on sanding down a chrome sink tube.. took all of 5 minutes..

its a very practical way to use resource that are available to you (everyone)

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

I think he means sink tube, Obi-Dar.


Yeah, I misunderstood what he was asking.

I have found the 22ga brass sink tubes at my local Home Depot, and at Lowe's, but I know that not every store has them.

By the way, if you're sanding chrome off a sink tube, make sure to wear at the minimum, safety goggles and a good quality dust mask. A mask with charcoal filters is even better.

[Rhyen Skytracker]

Here is the tutorial that Master Jedye did that shows how to sand one down. It is the 3rd post in this thread. http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=20093.0

[DJMoonbass]

the citric acid and water sounds easy. is citric acid not available to public or somethin x197?

[Arkhan]

last chrome tube I tried to "de-chrome" soaked in Muratic (hydrochloric) acid for hours and didn't budge.

Many tubes are actually nickel-plated THEN chromed. You can remove the chrome and still look like you have chrome, due to the nickel plating.

HCL will not remove nickel plate, IIRC. did some searching online for a chemical answer. Ended up sanding.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Citric acid is readily available to the public...and its even in our own bodies too. It is used quite a lot in processed foods to add tartness but you can also buy it as "sour salt". It is a fine white powder that tastes like lemon. Any Jewish grocery and even many non-Jewish groceries with a kosher section should stock it since it is used for Passover.

[alreadyRogue]

citric acid also dissolves the nickel. but still does not touch the brass

[MasterStoddard]

Citric acid goes by another name other then "sour salt" I don't remember what it is but you can find it with the stuff for jarring your own jams and other stuff of that nature I think. In Safeway stores it should be on the baking isle. Don't quote me on the location in Safeways.

[Jedi-Loreen]

Are you thinking of pectin? :confused:

[(null).exe]

http://www.amazon.com/Barry-Farm-Citric-Acid-oz/dp/B0001FUGTE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1283212646&sr=1-1

4oz of pure citric acid powder for about $10.

Looking around Amazon the shipping for most of this stuff is the killer. $5 for 32 oz...with $12 shipping

Maybe alreadyRogue could chime in with where he got his, and how many .oz make up a Tbsp, so we can see how far we can go with what we buy?

[xl97]

I could buy alot fo sandpaper for that..and be done already while I waited on shipping! ;)

is this stuff safe for you? and environment? (curious)

[Ronan]

I could buy alot fo sandpaper for that..and be done already while I waited on shipping! ;)

is this stuff safe for you? and environment? (curious)

Well i wouldn't go drinking it lol...

For the environment... don't dump it in the sink or outside (like most chemicals).

[alreadyRogue]

squeeze a lemon and thats citric acid
its safe for you. and the environment
you can buy it at indian supermarkets or stores
or online: http://www.brambleberry.com/Citric-Acid-P3753.aspx
its fairly reasonable

oh yeah 1lb of citric acid will probably do 10-15 sinktubes

[Silver Serpent]

I got my citric acid at a local health food store.

Sadly, it didn't appear to be terribly effective at removing the chrome. I still have plenty left, so I'll try a few more things. Might need a catalyst of some sort. Boiling it on the stove in a glass pyrex dish for an hour, and leaving it sit overnight was not enough to make the chrome budge.

Either my citric acid isn't really citric acid, or the chrome on my sinktube isn't chrome, or there's some missing part of the equation I still need.

I was hoping to mask the sinktube with some electrical tape, and etch off part of the chrome to get some nice designs. The good news is that the electrical tape didn't come off after boiling for an hour.

[(null).exe]

MSDS's are your friend ^.^

http://www.nationalchemicals.com/msds/documents/MSDSCitricAcid6_10.pdf

Reading through it really quickly, it seems like as long as you don't huff it or stick copious amounts in your eye, you should be good to go.

Under protective gear it just recommends PPE, which is a basic dust mask, goggles and gloves, but that's SOP for just about anything ever.

Basically it appears about as dangerous as Bondo. i.e. don't be an idiot and you won't get hurt.

[alreadyRogue]

Try a more concentrated solution then.
Idk what happened, but good idea with the electrical tape and the etching

[Jedi Master Taka]

Citric acid is also used to enhance the effects of some dyes on fabric. A fact I learned when I mentioned this thread to my fiance and she pulled a bag of citric acid out of the storage closet. We'll give it a try tonight and see how it works. Thanks for the tip.

J.M.T

[Ronan]

citric acid is also used to enhance the effects of some dyes on fabric. A fact i learned when i mentioned this thread to my fiance and she pulled a bag of citric acid out of the storage closet. We'll give it a try tonight and see how it works. Thanks for the tip.

J.m.t

lmao!

[(null).exe]

Citric acid is also used to enhance the effects of some dyes on fabric. A fact I learned when I mentioned this thread to my fiance and she pulled a bag of citric acid out of the storage closet. We'll give it a try tonight and see how it works. Thanks for the tip.

J.M.T

Be sure to let us know what concentrations worked the best!

[Jedi Master Taka]

O.K... We started of with 3 times the recommended amount of citric acid. (3 tbsp in 1 liter of distilled water. We left if for 45 minutes and... Nothing. Nadda. Zippo. Not even the tiniest change.

So we upped it to six tbsp and left it for another 45 minutes and... Nothing.

So we decided to rough up the tube just encase it has some kind of coating protecting the chrome and let it soak for another 45 minutes... Still nothing.

So as a last resort we went to 10 tbsp and boiled it for the next 45 minutes... Boy was that chrome shiny now...

This is a total no go. It didn't work at all. Time for a drill and some sandpaper...

J.M.T

[(null).exe]

Huh, well those're disturbingly poor results :(

alreadyRouge reported awesome results from his citric acid bath...maybe he was using something else? or your citric acid has gone bad? (IDK if citric acid can even go bad)

guess I'm going to not worry about buying any CA and just going to town with my mouse sander.

[Jedi Master Taka]

Well the Citric Acid apparently isn't very old and was properly stored. The company she got it from has an excellent reputation for only caring the best products. Soooo I don't think that that's the problem.

The tube was picked up from Ace this afternoon, so I dare say it's pretty close to what everybody else would be using.

At this point I would have to concluded that it's the process not the supplies.

J.M.T

[Ronan]

Interesting, i use to take off chrome in that same process years ago.

I think its the citric acid you are using thats the issue.

Or the tube is protected, or has some kind of different chrome.

[Jedi Master Taka]

Interesting, i use to take off chrome in that same process years ago.

I think its the citric acid you are using thats the issue.

Or the tube is protected, or has some kind of different chrome.

Well if some one has an idea of were we went wrong, I would happily try this again. Trust me. I am PRO not having to sand these down. But at the moment this method is looking like a no go. We even let the tube set over night in the citric acid "just in case" and there was absolutely no change.

BTW, were does one buy a "5/8 compression stop plug"? I've been checking on line and haven't managed to find one yet. Up until no I have just been doing my sanding by hand, but my a for mentioned fiance REALLY likes brass so I need to find a quicker way to turn out tubes.

Thanks,

J.M.T

[Silver Serpent]

Ronan, what type of container did you use for your citric acid bath? It's possible the material your container was made out of would act as a catalyst for the reaction. Pyrex glass is a no-go, but aluminum, stainless steel, or some other metal might be the trick. I'm reluctant to risk eating up my good cookware for testing purposes. :)

Any other specifics you remember about your process would be helpful, such as temperature, concentration, time, etc.

Like Taka, I also tried increasing acid concentration and roughing up the tube. I tossed a nail in the mix and noticed an immediate reaction, so i'm pretty sure the citric acid is functioning as it should.

[Jedi Master Taka]

Ronan, what type of container did you use for your citric acid bath? It's possible the material your container was made out of would act as a catalyst for the reaction. Pyrex glass is a no-go, but aluminum, stainless steel, or some other metal might be the trick. I'm reluctant to risk eating up my good cookware for testing purposes. :)

Any other specifics you remember about your process would be helpful, such as temperature, concentration, time, etc.

Like Taka, I also tried increasing acid concentration and roughing up the tube. I tossed a nail in the mix and noticed an immediate reaction, so i'm pretty sure the citric acid is functioning as it should.

We did our test in a plastic container, and in a ceramic pan. So if using a metal container is part of the equation, then we would have missed it also.

[(null).exe]

Well, depending on what type of metal cookware Ronan and alreadyRogue used, I know you can get cheap metal baking dishes at your local mega mart, like this:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Reston-Lloyd-PrepCo-Rectangular-Baking-Pan-in-Grey/11535376

it's 13.5"x9.75" and about 2" deep, so you could fit a whole uncut sink tube in there.

EDIT

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you: The Internetz
Apparently now they're good for more than just looking at naughty pictures!

After talking with a Physical Chemistry major who's a friend of mine, he said that a citric acid solution should work just fine to strip the chrome, but that reverse electroplating the tube using sulphuric acid and lead anodes should also work, but that there should be another chemical solution.

So I searched around for a bit and found this:
http://www.ehow.com/how_6706689_remove-chrome-plating-brass.html
That's right, 100% Acetone.

2 Hours, a pair of rubber gloves and a toothbrush later, you should have a shiny brass tube to cut to your heart's desire.

Chemistry FTW.

[Arkhan]

Well if some one has an idea of were we went wrong, I would happily try this again. Trust me. I am PRO not having to sand these down. But at the moment this method is looking like a no go. We even let the tube set over night in the citric acid "just in case" and there was absolutely no change.

BTW, were does one buy a "5/8 compression stop plug"? I've been checking on line and haven't managed to find one yet. Up until no I have just been doing my sanding by hand, but my a for mentioned fiance REALLY likes brass so I need to find a quicker way to turn out tubes.

Thanks,

J.M.T

If you're looking for something to fit inside the tube, I have been making them by hand, using dowel rods or similar.

get dowel rod or curtain rod of correct diameter. cut to length that will support the tube (can be full length if you desire, but I only use 3-4" usually.

Drill a hole in one end of rod, using drill press, make it as close to parallel to rod as possible and centered, to minimize wobbling.

take a 2.5" deck screw and grind the head off it until only shaft and threads remain.

Screw the deck screw into the hole in dowel rod until it is tight.

Slide the rod into the sink tube, if not tight enough, put a layer or two of tape on the dowel rod before insertion.

Screw, rod and sink tube are now one unit

Chuck the unit up in either drill press, or hand drill.

If drill press, lower rpm to lowest setting (500-600rpm) and turn on.

use varying grits/grades of wet/dry sandpaper to remove chrome and once above 1200 grit, you can switch to brasso or similar polish with old socks, etc to get excellent shine.

If you can't use drill press due to length of tube, or not having a drill press:

Take electric handdrill. chuck the unit you made into drill

Turn drill upside down and clamp into bench vise, handi-bench, etc, so the drill is in a horiztonal orientation, handle pointing UP.

use tape to secure the drill trigger in a partially depressed position, so to limit the drill RPMs. (or bribe someone to hold the trigger at desired position for many minutes). plug the drill into electricity <note, it will begin spinning immediately due to trigger being taped down.

sand the tube as above with drill press, but in this case, in a horizontal orientation.

I have used both these methods to dechrome sink tube, shroud (pre-cut), and many aluminum, brass, copper parts. If the part is vaguely cylindrical, you can create arbors for its inner diameter and polish it using drill or drill press.

Much faster and less labor than manual sanding, for certain, and better results with polishing.

[xl97]

Acetone, EZ-Off oven cleaner too..(some mentioned bleach even?)

heres a vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X7aK9XgkuI


also noted, is that thse techniques may not work on REAL metal plated plarts.. thicker application and all..

(seems to work best on plated plastic parts?)

as for the 'compression' plug..

Ive heard of them referred to as rubber expanding plugs..

I believe Ive been using a sanding drum mandrel without sandpaper on it of course..

similar to these:

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=793&q=drum+sanders+%2B+drill&safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=vc5-TPvLD8HflgfhutTvAw&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CEAQrQQwAg

like these (little past half way down on page)
http://www.usaindustries.com/linesheet_heat_tube_plugs.htm

but with shafts/shanks on them..

[Jedi Master Taka]

Thanks much Arkhan and xl97, for the plug information.

I have spent quite a bit of time today scouring the net for additional information. It seems what will work to remove chrome is largely dependent on what the chrome is bonded to. If it is Bonded to plastics, Acetone, Easy Off oven cleaner, and a few other things seem to work really quick and effectively. You can even use Rit dye to change the color of the chrome.
http://www.rpmrcproducts.com/faq/dyepg2.htm

However things seem to change significantly when you bond the chrome to metal. I plan on experimenting with a few more methods and see if I have any luck. But I think the best bet is probably still going to be sanding. I've got to be honest even being 99.99% sure that the dyeing method wont work on sink tube, I am tempted to try it just on the one in a million chance it "MIGHT" work for our needs.

The search continues...

J.M.T

[alreadyRogue]

Sorry guys it worked for me
I just put it in a pitcher
I would recreate it but I don't have any more citric acid.

[Jedi Master Taka]

Sorry guys it worked for me
I just put it in a pitcher
I would recreate it but I don't have any more citric acid.

Not your fault. While I was searching around I found people talking about using citric acid to clean chrome off every thing from RC cars to cappuccino machines. About 2 in 10 swore by it, and the rest seemed to be having the same problems I am. It seems to be strangely situational. But I don't mind doing a little searching to find a solution. This hobby wouldn't be so much fun if it all came easy. =D

[Silver Serpent]

I may just have to try buying sinktube from another source besides Lowe's. It's possible they use a chrome alloy that is resistant to the citric acid.

I have heard that using diluted muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) and DC current can reverse the electroplating and remove the chrome. That tends to have nastier disposal issues than citric acid though. I'm not ready to give up on this yet :)

[Jedi Master Taka]

Well, I tried the easy off method of chrome removal last night but other than discoloring the chrome (Possibly removing the chrome but leaving the nickle plating. It's really kinda hard to tell the difference.) There wasn't a lot of results.

On the bright side, my fiance is much more interested in saber building now that I have changed the kitchen into Mythbusters the home edition. *L*

[alreadyRogue]

Yeah the thing with hydrochloric acid is that it will ATTACK the brass while the nickel and the chrome are relatively inert. So HCL poses the problem of good stoppers, covering the ends of the tubes where brass is exposed, and hoping that the chrome and nickel finish is even enough to dissolve all at once (if it were an uneven coating thn brass would be exposed before all thechrome and nickel was gone. This may be a desired effect if one is looking for a weathered look, but may proove too faulty a chrome stripping method to replace sanding (or possibly citric acid in the future when we hmmer out ue detailsof its use)

[Silver Serpent]

Yeah, that was the other reason I was reluctant to try HCl over citric acid. I'm betting my issue is with the particular sinktubes I'm using. It's possible I already took off the chrome, and there was a different metal underneath that wasn't nickel. Once I locate another local source for my sinktubes, I'll retry my experiments.


Until then, it's time to shop for sandpaper :)