How I'd change the Star Wars Universe [Archive]

desertscorpion

06-13-2006, 10:37 AM

Hey folks! I thought I'd start a new thread that might prove quite interesting. I'd like it to be even more broad than even the subject line. Here's the question(s): How would you change the Star Wars Universe. Here's some examples: What scene would you have liked to see in the Star Wars movies? Either played out differently, deleted, or a new addition, altogether? Maybe new movies. What about video games? Books? Things done differently. Things done better. Things added and taken away. Maybe you'd change the nature of the force or the Star Wars universe, altogether. You get the idea. Just, don't write a list of "100 things I'd Change in Star Wars." Rather, let's throw a couple of ideas out there and bounce them around for a while. This could lead to some interesting conversation. I'd like to kick it off with an idea of my own, but for once, I'll leave that to the first person to reply.

james3

06-13-2006, 11:00 AM

Not let Qui-Gon get whacked in his first freakin movie!

The dude rocked, he told the council up yours when he knew they were wrong and I am bettin he would have sniffed out ole palps as well.

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bushidobaggins

06-13-2006, 11:13 AM

I was talking to my brother about this just last night! If Qui-Gon would have lived, there could have been some great conversations between him and Dooku, about the corruption of the senate, and how it is under the control of the sith. Also, Anakin would have been Qui-Gon's padawan instead of Obi-Wan's.

james3

06-13-2006, 11:27 AM

Dude I know! Qui-Gon would have totally screwed the whole story line but he was cool. I have been saying for years that GL should have at least waited untill the begining of EP2 to take out Qui-Gon at least that way we may have gotten some good books or a cartoon out of the deal but instead we are introduced to this Rogue play by my own rules Jedi who shows us that there IS conflict within the ranks of the order and then as fast as he comes in Maul pops a cap in his arse and I am sitting in the movie getting fussed at cause I am shouting "That's BullSnitz!"

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Nightwing

06-13-2006, 11:59 AM

I would have...

(Prequel Trilogy)

-hired a different (better) actor than Hayden Christensen to play Anakin.

-added at least one line in AotC showing that Obi-Wan was still dealing with the loss of his master.

-given the audience a reason for Padme to have suddenly started to like Anakin in AotC.

-shown Qui-Gon as a force ghost in RotS.

-made Jango Fett die in a cooler way.

-not made Anakin and Obi-Wan lose that badly in the AotC hangar duel.

-not changed Obi-Wan's saber fighting style from his TPM style, Form IV.

-given Bail Organa a line referring to the twins as "a new hope for the galaxy", or maybe he'd just say "the galaxy will have new hope".

(Original Trilogy)

-not stuck Han Solo in carbonite. Heck, they wasted the first 40 mins of RotJ on Tatooine, which made the real story that much more rushed.

-hired a different director for RotJ.

-not given Luke so many "wierd" lines in RotJ.

-altered the ending of ESB so that it didn't leave ya with such a downer.

-used the extra time in RotJ to show the Galaxy going back to normal, and at least one line about a new jedi order.

-made the relationship between Luke and Leia less romantic.

james3

06-13-2006, 12:14 PM

-added at least one line in AotC showing that Obi-Wan was still dealing with the loss of his master.
---

Nightwing that would have been an awsome point to put in to the movie.

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desertscorpion

06-13-2006, 12:45 PM

Nightwing,

Those are some good ideas, but I was hoping that someone wouldn't just post a long list of things. It kind of shortens conversations.
I'm really interested in your thoughts behind the comments. Maybe you could expound, where applicable.

bushidobaggins

06-13-2006, 01:09 PM

If Qui-Gon could have been Anakin's apprentice for even a few years before dying, coupled with his mother's death, it would have made his anger and fear of losing loved ones even stronger.

xwingband

06-13-2006, 01:52 PM

One of the greatest things I heard was having Qui-Gon = Dooku

Meaning Qui-Gon would have been the one to lose hope in the republic and the AotC Dooku and Obi talks a lot different.

Their thinking was that Liam was signed for all three and it was a change for him to die. Hence Dooku had to be made and his connection as Qui-Gon's master was sort of half baked.

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rohgan

06-13-2006, 01:55 PM

Somehow have Anakin die in TPM, preferably right after he first shows his stupid little face, and have him somehow return in AotC, played by Vin Diesel. Man, I hated that kid.

Also, have Mace die in a much cool fashion, rather than be pushed out of a window screaming like a girl. Have him murder some orphans before being taken down by 30 Dark Jedi and a pianist named Brian. It'd be a much worthier death, trust me.

Shown more footage of Anakin murdering the annoying Padawans in the Jedi Temple in RotS. Because, essentially, it was the coolest bit in the entire movie.

More seriously, Lucas should not have directed any of the prequels, he sucks as a director. Not very eloquently put, I appreciate, but ESB and RotJ are far superior as films to the other 4.

Also, Anakin's fall to the Dark Side was more of a gentle drift downwards. If Padme had been murdered by the Jedi, or if he'd been made to think she had, then it would have worked better than "I must serve the Sith as Palpatine said he knows how to save Padme from a possible death during childbirth, honestly he does."

I really liked AotC, thought it was the best of the prequels, and possibly better than ANH (mostly due to the Arena Battle and the clone gunships, to be honest), but RotS was a calamity. TPM wasn't a very good film, but made up for it with one of the best fight scenes I've ever seen, despite the extremely annoying kid.

Nightwing

06-13-2006, 02:18 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rohgan

I really liked AotC, thought it was the best of the prequels, and possibly better than ANH (mostly due to the Arena Battle and the clone gunships, to be honest), but RotS was a calamity. TPM wasn't a very good film, but made up for it with one of the best fight scenes I've ever seen, despite the extremely annoying kid.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Really? That's funny. I thought AotC was a calamity, and RotS was great (not as good as ANH or ESB, however.).

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by desertscorpion

Nightwing,

Those are some good ideas, but I was hoping that someone wouldn't just post a long list of things. It kind of shortens conversations.
I'm really interested in your thoughts behind the comments. Maybe you could expound, where applicable.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Your funeral.

I would have...

(Prequel Trilogy)

-hired a different (better) actor than Hayden Christensen to play Anakin.
I thought he was far worse than Jake Lloyd, delivering emotionless lines and absolutely no connection with Natalie Portman. The only saving grace was his "dark side" in RotS.

-added at least one line in AotC showing that Obi-Wan was still dealing with the loss of his master.
There was so much in the EU about this, and we saw his reaction to merely hearing about him from Yoda in RotS, yet we never saw anything until that point. It was as if they simply dropped all of his character development in AotC.

-given the audience a reason for Padme to have suddenly started to like Anakin in AotC.
I really never understood why Padme like Anakin. Really, why did she?

-shown Qui-Gon as a force ghost in RotS.
It would have explained everything so much better if he had simply showed up for half a second. Even better if he had walked away with Obi-Wan on Tatooine at the end of RotS.

-made Jango Fett die in a cooler way.
He was the greatest bounty hunter ever... and he died in five seconds. He just let Mace chop his head off. Why couldn't he have had a cool hand-to-hand fight or something?

-not made Anakin and Obi-Wan lose that badly in the AotC hangar duel.
That totally was a letdown, and threw everything we learned about Obi-Wan's awesomeness in TPM out the window. Anakin wasn't a big deal.

-not changed Obi-Wan's saber fighting style from his TPM style, Form IV.
Form III just doesn't have the energy that Form IV brought to TPM.

-given Bail Organa a line referring to the twins as "a new hope for the galaxy", or maybe he'd just say "the galaxy will have new hope".
Just for fun, and for all those stupid people who don't understand what the new hope was.

(Original Trilogy)

-not stuck Han Solo in carbonite.
Heck, they wasted the first 40 mins of RotJ on Tatooine, which made the real story that much more rushed.

-hired a different director for RotJ.
I really felt that RotJ was inferior to the other two, mostly because of its direction. It lacked the fun of GL, and the brilliance of Irvin Kershner.

-not given Luke so many "wierd" lines in RotJ.
He had so many new-age crap lines that I somewhat lost my connection with Luke during RotJ, which was the previous films' greatest strength.

-altered the ending of ESB so that it didn't leave ya with such a downer.
I really don't like sad endings with pretty much no conclusion. If I just changed the Han Solo factor, that'd be enough.

-used the extra time in RotJ to show the Galaxy going back to normal, and at least one line about a new jedi order.
I think RotJ ended the way it did because GL was going to do a third trilogy. He tried to fix it with the Special Edition, but that wasn't enough for me.

-made the relationship between Luke and Leia less romantic.
Come on, was there anyone who didn't cringe when they found out that Luke was a sister-kisser?

desertscorpion

06-13-2006, 02:53 PM

I agree, Xwing, that that would've been interesting, indeed. And Dooku coming out of nowhere was kind of half-baked. The only problem would be that they'd have to portray Qui-Gon as having a little more pride or something. Because at the end of the day, Qui-Gonn wanted the same thing as the council and the republic, he just didn't see eye-to-eye. I think that Dooku took it more personal. "Nobody's listnin' to me! Wah!" Rather than had any deep love for the republic. I think that pride is why he was so much more susceptible to the darkside, unlike Qui-Gonn.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by xwingband

One of the greatest things I heard was having Qui-Gon = Dooku

Meaning Qui-Gon would have been the one to lose hope in the republic and the AotC Dooku and Obi talks a lot different.

Their thinking was that Liam was signed for all three and it was a change for him to die. Hence Dooku had to be made and his connection as Qui-Gon's master was sort of half baked.

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Pirate King

06-13-2006, 03:01 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nightwing

I would have...

(Prequel Trilogy)

-hired a different (better) actor than Hayden Christensen to play Anakin.

-added at least one line in AotC showing that Obi-Wan was still dealing with the loss of his master.

-shown Qui-Gon as a force ghost in RotS.

-made Jango Fett die in a cooler way.

-not made Anakin and Obi-Wan lose that badly in the AotC hangar duel.

-not changed Obi-Wan's saber fighting style from his TPM style, Form IV.

(Original Trilogy)

-altered the ending of ESB so that it didn't leave ya with such a downer.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Okay, Hayden isn't the best actor, but I think he is the best actor for Anakin. He's classic emo-kid, and he didn't do all that bad in RotS.

Soresu Charactarizes Obi-Wan perfectly, and he probably only used form IV because it's what Qui-gon used, and Obi-Wan wouldn't still be getting over the loss of his Master because that just isn't how Jedi roll. They let go, part of the reason Ani turned is because of fear of loss, and Obi is the perfect Jedi.

What is not cool about the way Jango died? It showed how incredibly bad-ass Windu is.

Ani and Obi have to lose that badly, otherwise Dooku would not seem as threatening as he was, and the guy was trained to fight against other saber users, rather than block blaster bolts. aside from tpm, the jedi had not come into contact with the sith for ages, and had not fought such adversaries as dooku for a long time.

ESB has to be a downer, just look at the title! if it wasn't so downer, it would have to be called something like "The Empire Strikes Back, but the Rebellion is not threatened at all." ESB was probably the best one in terms of direction and acting.

Qui-Gon as a force ghost, didn't that have something to do with having to pay Liam more if he were actually seen?

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============

Mi Gin Gonn

06-13-2006, 03:10 PM

rohgan- lol your post is hilarious [:D]

the only thing i can think of (and this is kind of outta left field), would be to have a window being broken in EPIV. It's the only SW movie not to show a window being broken in some fashion:

EPI: Padme & her entourage blow up a window with blaster pistols
EPII: Obi-Wan dives through a window to grab the assassin droid
EPIII: Mace & Sidious break the window with their sabers
EPIV: No window broken
EPV: Vader force-throws heavy object thru window on Bespin
EPVI: A-Wing fighter crashes thru Star Destroyer Bridge window

"This is U.S. history, I can see the globe right over there..."

Pirate King

06-13-2006, 03:16 PM

well, ep IV had all those cameras shot out, that sort of counts...

although I don't think broken glass has the same sort of running theme effect as lines like "I have a bad feeling about this." I think Padme should have said it in RotS, Obi-Wan said it already, though I can't remember when. think it was TPM

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Mi Gin Gonn

06-13-2006, 03:38 PM

nope, it was just before he flew into Grevious' ship in ROTS

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WeirdoTransvestite

06-13-2006, 03:51 PM

For such a running gag in Star Wars, it's really not said that much.

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Nightwing

06-13-2006, 04:04 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pirate KingOkay, Hayden isn't the best actor, but I think he is the best actor for Anakin. He's classic emo-kid, and he didn't do all that bad in RotS.

Soresu Charactarizes Obi-Wan perfectly, and he probably only used form IV because it's what Qui-gon used, and Obi-Wan wouldn't still be getting over the loss of his Master because that just isn't how Jedi roll. They let go, part of the reason Ani turned is because of fear of loss, and Obi is the perfect Jedi.

What is not cool about the way Jango died? It showed how incredibly bad-ass Windu is.

Ani and Obi have to lose that badly, otherwise Dooku would not seem as threatening as he was, and the guy was trained to fight against other saber users, rather than block blaster bolts. aside from tpm, the jedi had not come into contact with the sith for ages, and had not fought such adversaries as dooku for a long time.

ESB has to be a downer, just look at the title! if it wasn't so downer, it would have to be called something like "The Empire Strikes Back, but the Rebellion is not threatened at all." ESB was probably the best one in terms of direction and acting.

Qui-Gon as a force ghost, didn't that have something to do with having to pay Liam more if he were actually seen?

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, I sorely disagree on Hayden. He didn't do AS BAD in RotS, but he was still bad, mostly because of his scenes with Padme and his "fall to the dark side" scene.

Soresu somewhat characterizes Obi-Wan, but not entirely. His whole reason for switching was that he became more careful/afraid because of Qui-Gon's death, but I never bought it. I liked Obi-Wan more in TPM, anyway. Besides, he's the most aggressive soresu practitioner ever.
Yes, he would be and was getting over his master's loss. You can hear him talk about Qui-Gon all throughout the EU, and even in the Clone Wars series. His reaction to hearing Qui-Gon's name in RotS is enough proof.

Jango died in a rather stupid way. It was simply too easy for Windu.

No, no, no. Obi-Wan trashed Maul even though Maul had spent years training as a sith, perfectly trained in saber-to-saber combat. That doesn't matter.
I don't really care if they had to lose, the point is that it was stupid how easily Obi-Wan got beat. I mean, Anakin lasted perhaps three times longer than Obi-Wan, and we all know he's not any better.
Both the the Jango vs. Windu and Obi-Wan vs. Dooku fights were choreographed according to what George wrote in the script, not what made sense.

Films don't need to end sadly in order for them to be sad. What about films like The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers? It was a downer, yet ended great.

They actually had Liam Neeson come in and do some voiceover work for the scene where Yoda is meditating on Polis Massa. It didn't go the way they wanted it to, so they cut it. No idea about the live-action-pay thing, though.

Isn't this more of a "comments" thread than a debate thread? After all, it's titled "How I'd change the Star Wars Universe", not "Let's play Hater vs. Fanboy wars!"

987654321a

06-13-2006, 04:15 PM

i didnt see this but darth maul shoulda lived

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JedimasterJSA

06-13-2006, 07:11 PM

If Darth Maul had lived, then Count Dooku wouldn't have come into play. Because as far as I understand it, Darth Sidious took to Dooku because he lost Darth Maul. Now, whether you think it a good or bad thing to have never seen Dooku is you're chioce, but remember, then we woulnd't have seen Dooku's awesome saber.

What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly.

Mi Gin Gonn

06-13-2006, 07:31 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nightwing
Jango died in a rather stupid way. It was simply too easy for Windu.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

c'mon, mayne. deflecting multiple blaster bolts and beheading someone in one deft move is "easy"? you must be way more limber than me

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shiky

06-13-2006, 09:27 PM

yea mi-gon thats what he meant. he thinks that obi has previously said it in anothe rmovie.

-----------------------------------------
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james3

06-13-2006, 10:26 PM

Like WOW! that's great stuff where do I go from here...

Mace is the BMF don't forget, ole Jango might have been the best bounty hunter but he aint got nuttin on my boy[;)]

Qui-Gon falling to the dark side, interesting but I too would have to say that he wanted peace and (keyword) freedom for all those in the galaxy, he would be more likely the guy pushing for less restrictive rules so palps and him would have issues.

Dooku trained to dual but so did Maul, the outcome I think would have to stay the same but I agree that Obi-Wan gots better skills then what they portrayed and it would have been a bit closer. At the same time though they were consistant, Obi-Wan kicked mauls butt but he really was nothing for Dooku either time they dualed so there ya go.

Like Qui-Gon maul had to go. It sucks but we deal with it. And come on, maul was a WARRIOR the ONLY way he was going to live is for both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to die and we know how that goes.

Hayden did alright as Anakin. Who would be better?

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desertscorpion

06-14-2006, 10:58 AM

Nightwing, I would just take all comments as a friendly debate. Here's my two cents:

- Hayden was definitely an emo-kid. Too much of an emo-kid. In fact because of him alone, he almost dates the films he's in to Gen Y, IMHO. He had the face. He got the job.

- I would've figured Qui-Gon's ghost would have been an obvious thing to include in the prequels.

- I think that Jango was the pinnacle of deadliness for a soldier/mercenary/bounty hunter. And he probably smoked some jedi's in his time, too. But, there's a much lower cap to what a person can achieve without the force, and Mace is about as deadly as you can get. Rest in peace Jango.

-Yeah, I never could stomach Dooku just wiping the floor with Anakin and Obi-wan. Moreover, in my opinion, Maul could've wiped the floor with Dooku. But I'm a big fan of Maul and Mace (sounds like a wrestling tag team.)

-Obi-Wan is the consummate, perfect, boy scout jedi. I feel he is the very definition of Form 3, at least in his philosophy. I bet he fetched coffee for Yoda for years! Ha! But, seriously I never thought he fit in the same category as Anakin and Luke in his style. Or shouldn't have. You have to remember that Yoda was his new master. And I think Yoda's philosophy dictates a more Form 3 style. Yoda's size probably pushed him in a different direction, though.

-Critcally speaking, if I wasn't a Star Wars fan, I'd say that A New Hope and Empire are the only two movies out of all of them that are a Grand Slam. But they could have been. The stories were a Grand Slam. It was just how it played out. Remember, before Jar Jar, there was the Ewoks, and then it just got worse.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nightwing

I would have...

(Prequel Trilogy)

-hired a different (better) actor than Hayden Christensen to play Anakin.

-added at least one line in AotC showing that Obi-Wan was still dealing with the loss of his master.

-given the audience a reason for Padme to have suddenly started to like Anakin in AotC.

-shown Qui-Gon as a force ghost in RotS.

-made Jango Fett die in a cooler way.

-not made Anakin and Obi-Wan lose that badly in the AotC hangar duel.

-not changed Obi-Wan's saber fighting style from his TPM style, Form IV.

-given Bail Organa a line referring to the twins as "a new hope for the galaxy", or maybe he'd just say "the galaxy will have new hope".

(Original Trilogy)

-not stuck Han Solo in carbonite. Heck, they wasted the first 40 mins of RotJ on Tatooine, which made the real story that much more rushed.

-hired a different director for RotJ.

-not given Luke so many "wierd" lines in RotJ.

-altered the ending of ESB so that it didn't leave ya with such a downer.

-used the extra time in RotJ to show the Galaxy going back to normal, and at least one line about a new jedi order.

-made the relationship between Luke and Leia less romantic.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

vadeblade

06-14-2006, 12:19 PM

Other big things missing from the prequals was good conversations and good character developement.

Think of the flirtatious, humorous, and heartfelt interactions that Han and Leia had. Or the good buddies interaction Han and Luke had. Or when Lando said things. Or when Luke was like screaming "NO!!!!!" about the whole father thing. That was heart, that was emotion.

Ep 1-3 was too stiff and formal when they spoke. When was the last time you spoke that way when chatting with a friend or co-worker. We don't, it was too forced, to weird. The original trilogy was more relaxed.

Lead female hero - George Lucas is a "dirty old man". Natalie Portman was nothing more than window dressing. They could have accomplished the same thing with anamatronics. Padme had absolutely NO, none, zero charecter developement. Count the number of shots where Padme was just standing there looking out into space in all the episodes, it was pointless. If a female is going to be a significant part of the plot make her smart, ***y, and brave. Like Princes Leia, Sam Carter, Seven of Nine, Lara Croft to name a few.

the prequals were too sterile. It was a universe made up of stiff robots, no real people.

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Pirate King

06-14-2006, 01:43 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mi Gin Gonn

nope, it was just before he flew into Grevious' ship in ROTS
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know, but he also said it at the very beginning of TPM.

EU is so non-cannon it isn't even funny, so any evidence on anything gained from that is bunk.

as for A lack of character development for Padme, boy, do you have another thing comin from a very researched friend of mine.

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============

Pirate King

06-14-2006, 02:22 PM

Hi, I'm Pirate King's researched friend.

I've been called on to reply to the remark that Padmé is not smart, ***y, or brave and that she had no character development. Here I go.
I'll start by saying that I know a lot of guys who would disagree about the ***y part, and a "dirty old man" like George wouldn't have hired her if she wasn't. Now, let's look at her character development, which I hope will simultaneously deal with the question of her bravery.

Padmé Naberrie becomes active in the Refugee Relief Movement when she was six or seven. At first her ambitions extend no further than this, but she soon realizes "how much good politicians could do" for others. She dedicates herself wholeheartedly to that goal, joining the Legislative Youth Program and becoming an Apprentice Legislator when she is eight, then a Senatorial Advisor. She works so fervently that at the age of twelve she is elected Princess of Theed. At fourteen she becomes Queen of Naboo, "partly because I scored so high on my education certificate. But for the most part, my ascent was because of my conviction that reform was possible." When Naboo is threatened by the Trade Federation blockade and invasion, Queen Amidala does much to reform the Naboo way of life and, in the process, save it. In her crusade to rescue her people she puts herself in danger, makes a plea before the Senate and, when all other options have been exhausted, moves for the impeachment of the leader of the Republic itself. She then returns home to fight-- personally, physically-- for Naboo's freedom. She even forms an alliance with the Gungans, mending a rift between species that has stood for hundreds, even thousands of years. She does all of this when she is just fourteen years old, a child Queen.

After her reign as Queen, she is tired of being always scrutinized and in the public eye and she wants to retire. Many in her position would have. But at the conclusion of her two terms as Queen, Amidala agrees to continue her quest for reform in the Senate. Personally, she yearns for a normal life and a family of her own. But still she works tirelessly, despite multiple assassination attempts, to end the Separatist crisis without violence. She refuses to stray from her beliefs, even when it means facing execution in an arena. She frees herself and holds her own in a battle alongside Jedi.

Still, when this ****y Jedi padawan comes along, she looks at him and sees adventure and excitement and the chance to just be herself and not the Senator she has to be most of the time. She can laugh with him like she can't do almost anywhere else in her life. She also sees in Anakin someone who is slightly broken, but not beyond help, and she takes it upon herself to fix him; it's a sort of complex she has. The attempts on her life and the Battle of Geonosis force her to realize how precious life is and the looming Clone Wars persuade her to embrace life, to live fully according to what she wants and not, for once, what everybody else wants of her. Marrying Anakin Skywalker is possibly the first, and certainly one of the few, selfish things she does in her entire life.

When Padmé becomes pregnant, she is naturally fearful of the consequences, especially in relation to Anakin's status as a Jedi hero. On the other hand, she thinks it's "wonderful," and she very much wants to have her baby. For years she has envied her sister and adored her nieces, yearning to start her own family.

In Episode III, Even with the Republic crumbling around her, with her private life in turmoil, she stands against the Empire her beloved husband and her former friend and advisor are seeking to build. This is a time of uncertainty, and Padmé is accordlingly older, sadder, and more uncertain. Her advise to Bail Organa saves the resistance movement and leads to the official creation of the Rebel Alliance. She is the last person to still have faith in Anakin, the last person to try to bring him back from the dark side, and that legacy is passed on to her son.

With each Episode Padmé is more mature and in a different place in her life. The continuous thread that runs through her characters is an overwhelming compassion, intelligence, and courage. She stares out at things because she's THINKING, and not just acting, which makes her all the more valuable as a kick-ass heroine.

This is probably already too long. Pirate King, I hope I lived up to your expectations.

Fin.

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============

Mi Gin Gonn

06-14-2006, 02:45 PM

Oh, I thought of one more. I would've had Sledge Hammer defending the Jedi Temple...he would have blown away all the clone troopers in ten minutes and still had time to thank his .44 magnum [8D]

"This is U.S. history, I can see the globe right over there..."

james3

06-14-2006, 04:22 PM

PK's researched friend, Bra-freakin-vo! My wife and I had this exact same discussion not even a month ago with a couple friends of ours and you got everything we said and more in there.

Now everything else vadeblade said I can't really disagree with but the development of Padme was much more "modern" and subtle but there nonetheless except for EP2 when she has the black hottie tease the jedi dress on she didn't seem to much like window dressing[;)]

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

987654321a

06-14-2006, 04:37 PM

yeah but who cares bout dooku he still got killed too, but maul would have been sith lord for like 3 movies prolly

I DONT KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!....LOUD NOISES!!!
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james3

06-14-2006, 04:53 PM

Countdown even though Maul was an awsome character he was just a fighter there was no real depth the dude was trained from the go to be a bomb that when setoff would cause as much damage as possible. Palps had Dooku under the fold before Maul was even waxed do you really think ole palps really follow some old dogmatic view that there could only be two sith?

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

Mor-El Kesav

06-14-2006, 06:03 PM

I would have had Obi Wan put up a better fight against Dooku, both times. I mean Obi Wan killed Darth Maul, he killed General Grevious, he beat Darth Vader and he couldn't take out a fossil like Dooku? Give me a break. Master Windu called Obi Wan the master of Soresu. However he began to use elements of Form IV and Form V during his duel with Vader. He became a better lightsaber duelist during his fights with Grevious and Vader.

"Destroy the Sith we must!"
Master Yoda

http://www.theclanmuir.org/Small_Jedi_Starfighter.jpg

http://www.theclanmuir.org/CSA.jpg

james3

06-14-2006, 06:50 PM

I find it really interesting how many of us seem to think that the Obi-Wan vs. Dooku duals seem to be a little off. In keeping with just the movies we know that Dooku was brought up by Yoda who we have now established is pretty wicked with the short blade. He went on to bring up Qui-Gon who was pretty tough but just missed the sucker punch. Jedi must sit around talkin' skills while having a pint since Dooku knew that Mace and Yoda who would be considered the toughest to go at it with a saber seemed to think that Obi-Wan got game. (sorry guys just going with the movies here) So Dooku, who must be like some sort of mega big time Lightsaber dualist whipped the floor with Anakin and Obi-Wan the first time around and pretty much made Obi-Wan the whipping boy the second time around the question is why? Are the more defensive forms less effective against form 2? I am not so sure of that. Is the "fossil" Dooku really that much better then our hero Obi-Wan? Well, Yoda was 900 and still whompin clones like they were bad habits and giving palps a big run for the money. So let's forget age and forms are way to debate driven since each one has it's strengh and weakness.
So guys what do ya'll think? Why is it that Dooku seemed to control Obi-Wans lightsaber duals?

Just a quick thought Mor-El, the fights with Grevious and Anakin(Vader) were after the final dual with Dooku but I do agree that his ability grew with each battle.

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

Nightwing

06-14-2006, 07:02 PM

Well, both in the RotS novel and movie, Dooku had to cheat to beat Obi-Wan. In the novel, he was like "oh, crap! Obi-Wan's a master of soresu! DangitDangitDangitDangitDangitDangit... crap! I'm gonna have to go all cheap now and use some force power..."

He let Anakin go without a force-pushing of choking because he was trying to turn Anakin to the dark side, which eventually worked against him.

Form III is weak in some ways against Form II because Makashi was made for saber-to-saber combat while Soresu was made for blaster bolts. However, a master of Soresu is said to be invincible no matter what, so it really doesn't matter a whole lot.

Darth Poo Head

06-14-2006, 09:07 PM

I was hoping that Mace would die at the hands of Boba Fett, with Ani/ Vader close enough to witness it in some form of disintegration to tie in the whole ESB scene where Vader says “No disintegrations,” to Boba. I know that would have made Boba fairly young, but dude was cloned from the baldest mo-fo bounty hunter in the galaxy, plus wanting revenge on the guy who killed his father, it’s possible.

It's not the Jedi way....

http://gallery.wewt.net/albums/Gipes-World/darth_poo_head_sig_3_06.jpg

Devilstar2k2

06-15-2006, 02:24 AM

I'd make it so that Ani's not such a whiney bitch; "Wah... Its Obi-Wans fault, he's holding me back... Wah... I'm really ahead of him... Wah... I'm not the Jedi I should be... Wah... I need a tampon...".

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/xdm41/sig.gif</center>

rohgan

06-15-2006, 07:20 AM

desertscorpion

06-15-2006, 07:55 AM

I think what he was originally implying about Padme's character development was that a rich character like her was underdeveloped in the movies. I would agree with that.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pirate King

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mi Gin Gonn

nope, it was just before he flew into Grevious' ship in ROTS
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know, but he also said it at the very beginning of TPM.

EU is so non-cannon it isn't even funny, so any evidence on anything gained from that is bunk.

as for A lack of character development for Padme, boy, do you have another thing comin from a very researched friend of mine.

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

vadeblade

06-15-2006, 08:12 AM

I am in complete aggreement that Natalie Portman is ***y, that was not my point. She is dim compared to her daughter. Fine outside the film she had character developement. In the film and in the cartoon she was window dressing.

Ohh and I think that the Jedi temple should not have gone down so easy. I think it should have taken a tactical nuke to take down the jedi's in the temple.

Ohh, and Anikin being concieved by Immaculate Conception is just kinda creepy. I think his dad shoulda been Billy-Bob Nobody who died in a thresher accident leaving his window and child with a huge gambling debt that forced them to become slaves.

I wanted to see Wookie Jedi. I would add them to the movie.

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."

DACOTA

06-15-2006, 10:12 AM

id like to see grievous die at the very end of ep 3 rots and have him go back to his good side[extended universe].also fix the saber goofs in rots

"aaah... general kenobi.... you are a bold one."-general grievous

Pirate King

06-15-2006, 11:29 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Devilstar2k2

I'd make it so that Ani's not such a whiney bitch; "Wah... Its Obi-Wans fault, he's holding me back... Wah... I'm really ahead of him... Wah... I'm not the Jedi I should be... Wah... I need a tampon...".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Where do you think Luke got it? "Uncloweeeen! I wanted to go to tashi station and pick up some powere converteeeeers!"

I'd have actually made the grievous battle a little longer, and maybe build up to the four sabers, instead of starting right out that way. As it was, Obi chopped him up too easily for how much hype there was over this 4 saber weilding droid before the movie came out.

as for immaculate conception, there are rumors that Plageus "used the force to create life," but I don't know how I feel about that. but, hey, conceived by medicloriants.

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============

Nightwing

06-15-2006, 12:46 PM

I'm in agreement with the make-Grievious'-duel-longer movement. While it makes sense that Obi-Wan would find it that easy--considering he's a Form III master and is perfectly suited to take on Grievious--it was just too anticlimactic.

I also heard another rumor that said the Jedi Order was founded by a Skywalker, and part of the prophesy was that one of their descendants would become the chosen one.
Also, I can't believe that the Dark Side can create life. The Dark Side is literally the antithesis of life.

DACOTA

06-15-2006, 02:24 PM

sidious's master could influence the midichlorians to create life.my friend and i have a theory that that is how anakin was born since his mama was a virgin.the master new he would come to the dark side and that is why anakin is the chosen one.

"aaah... general kenobi.... you are a bold one."-general grievous

Pirate King

06-15-2006, 03:05 PM

The Dark Side is not the antithesis of life, it is a part of the force, which is life. the dark side doesn't thrive on death and destruction, it thrives on greed, impatience, and general selfishness. Especially selfishness, no matter what the intention. To create life is to desire power beyond one's necessary ability, and one would only do it in one's self-interest. Think Frankenstein, or any fantasy thing where necromancy is involved. bringing the dead to life, or creating a living thing is generally depicted as a bad or selfish thing to do.

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============

vadeblade

06-15-2006, 03:10 PM

Just for the record, anything I say is strictly FILM.

I thought Anakin was the chosen one because in the end he was the guy who threw Palpy down a shaft. I think the Jedi of the prequal were too shortsighted.

He was the chosen one by bringing balance back to the force, that was the prophecy right? Well how balanced is it to have 2 Sith and hundreds (thousands?) of Jedi? Well After the Jedi purge, we have 2 sith and 2 Jedi in hiding, sounds balanced to me.

Anyway, the old Jedi order was getting too full of itself, it needed to start over. Purge - now the Sith are in power. Palpy down the shaft - and now neither Jedi or Sith are in power. Thus balance is made. It just took 20 plus years of total terror to happen.

And besides Wookie Jedi, I would want Hutt Jedi too...

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."

Darth Poo Head

06-15-2006, 04:51 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by vadeblade

Just for the record, anything I say is strictly FILM.

I thought Anakin was the chosen one because in the end he was the guy who threw Palpy down a shaft. I think the Jedi of the prequal were too shortsighted.

He was the chosen one by bringing balance back to the force, that was the prophecy right? Well how balanced is it to have 2 Sith and hundreds (thousands?) of Jedi? Well After the Jedi purge, we have 2 sith and 2 Jedi in hiding, sounds balanced to me.

Anyway, the old Jedi order was getting too full of itself, it needed to start over. Purge - now the Sith are in power. Palpy down the shaft - and now neither Jedi or Sith are in power. Thus balance is made. It just took 20 plus years of total terror to happen.

And besides Wookie Jedi, I would want Hutt Jedi too...

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree that he did in fact fulfill the prophecy and is the chosen one. He kills the Sith and brings balance to the force.

It's not the Jedi way....

http://gallery.wewt.net/albums/Gipes-World/darth_poo_head_sig_3_06.jpg

james3

06-15-2006, 06:59 PM

Vadeblade you are right on with Anakin and the balance issue.

I am not so sure about the Hutt Jedi though I know from a movie standpoint all we know are the Hutts are gangsters but it falls in to the greedy, selfish etc that would make more a darkside character. Wookies for sure they are all about freedom and honor etc so that would work.

Dacota, Palps told the story about his master to suck him in ever since there has been all this hoora that he was the dude to concieve Anakin. BRAVO SIERRA! This is why:

In order for palps to know all about Anakin ahead of time he would have had to set up so many things to play out it would be unrealistic. I am going to stick with the movies on this but it will make sense. palps knowing the jedi will escape to naboo I will concede but there is no way in any universe that he could figure a random shot to destroy a hyperdrive that would force them to go to Tatooine. From there he would have to assume that Qui-Gon would free the boy and bring him back and of course the argument could go from there. I realize that ever since they made a big deal that he was concieved with no father (which was a very bad idea but GL doesn't give a crap what I think) there has been the argument that he was bred by the Sith. Lord knows I don't want this to get like the topic that got out of control so I will just say this. Human's have free will, that is what makes them so special right or wrong, good or bad, point of view what ever can be debated forever but ya can't change the fact that we all have the power to choose our destiny. And THAT is what Palps played on to seduce Anakin. It is basic simple logic.

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

DARTHMONKEY1706

06-16-2006, 01:08 AM

was it me or did padme say there was a 3rd child what was up whith that?
but i would have loger grivious fight mention him in ep1 also have in the sequals more talk bout the prequals.

also have a naval battle with the green octapus jedi(forgot name) a giant squid or monster and a scoba clone trooper

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DACOTA

06-16-2006, 07:01 AM

ya i agree some of it was just impossible but it was a good thought though,gl dont got nothin on you james3

"aaah... general kenobi.... you are a bold one."-general grievous

Nightwing

06-16-2006, 07:30 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DARTHMONKEY1706

was it me or did padme say there was a 3rd child what was up whith that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I dunno. What WAS up with that? What are you talking about?

tazrob

06-16-2006, 09:52 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Darth Poo Head

I agree that he did in fact fulfill the prophecy and is the chosen one. He kills the Sith and brings balance to the force.

It's not the Jedi way....

http://gallery.wewt.net/albums/Gipes-World/darth_poo_head_sig_3_06.jpg
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have always had a problem with this "balance to the force" issue, if the force is to be in "balance" would that not mean equal? Equal dark side equal light side? Yin and Yang? If that is the case Vader brought balance to the force and then messed up that balance, film wise only you had yoda and luke, vader and palps, sides equal and in balance then the little green muppet dies and you have luke vs vader and palps, unbalanced then vader turns back luke and ani vs palps, again unbalanced, finally ani kills himself and palps and all you have left is luke unbalanced.

Nightwing

06-16-2006, 11:15 AM

According to the novels, "bring balance" means "eliminate both sides". Basically, in the end of the NJO, they said that there is no real light or dark side (basically a literal version of moral relativism).

desertscorpion

06-16-2006, 11:29 AM

One of the things that the film never elaborated on is what the force being in balance actually means. Is is really the number of jedi or the number of sith? Or is it the amount of influence of dark or lightside forces? I'm inclined to believe the latter. Even though Sidious didn't have a lot of cronies, he held incredible influence, though few knew. Even though there were many jedi, it seems that they had grown aloof, apathetic, and weaker, in general. Most of them probably sat around and played cards. Criminal organizations still flourished. Dark plans were in motion. And what about diabolical plans and heinous crimes by traditional criminals? Is that factored into the balance?

tazrob

06-16-2006, 11:55 AM

OK it keeps getting more and more confusing, after desert's explaination I set out to figure out what "Balance to the force" means, from wiki:

"Traditional Jedi were keen to keep the Force "in balance". They attempted to achieve this by destroying the Sith and denying the dark side — essentially "keeping balance" by denying balance, as they viewed the dark side as "corruption"."

keeping balance by denying balance???????????? WTF [:(!]

james3

06-16-2006, 12:05 PM

DarthMonkey, have you been smokin the crack again[?][:p] She didn't say anything like that bud.

Dacota, there is one BIG thing that GL has on me... Lots-O-Millions! [;)]

*********** I would like to say that we do not need this to turn up like countdowns Darth Maul topic! Let's try to stay cool guys[;)]*********

While I do think it is easier to comprehend the balance factor from a numbers point of view, I also think it is a little more complex then that. Both sides have to equal out from a more "cosmic" level. If a boy helps a lady get her cat out of the tree some one else is kicking the neighbor's dog. Or something kind of along those lines[;)] Palps was way to Darkside and of course as discussed up a few posts the Jedi just took the "chosen one" thing to mean right now, today, this very minute and they got a suprise.

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

tazrob

06-16-2006, 12:13 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by james3
Palps was way to Darkside
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

but then the same could have been said in the oppisite about yoda, grrrrr I hate when stuff like this gets stuck in my head, I will not be able to sleep all weekend now [:(!]

james3

06-16-2006, 12:36 PM

tazrob I know what ya mean dude. this very thing just burned me up when they screwed up the force in NJO ( I don't even want to go there) And I have beat my head on a wall trying to determine all this balance crap. It is nuts but it makes for great posts[;)]

I brought up the Yoda/Palps thing before with a friend of mine and when you take in to account that Palps was single minded in his bid to control the galaxy, Yoda was even blinded by Palps so although they could fight toe to toe I am not so sure that even Yoda's force sensitivity was as strong. It would seem to me that since these guys were in and out of DIRECT contact with palps all the time, they would have at least gotten a sniff no?

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

Nightwing

06-16-2006, 12:38 PM

Can we just say that the prophesy was misread and be done with it? [:p]

james3

06-16-2006, 12:47 PM

Aw come on Nightwing, ya gots to have a good tidbit for us. [:p]

Ok so how about this...

I would have had Han Solo get some more Lightsaber action cause just that little tease with the Hoth rescue was just not enough. How bout at Bespin ole han does his blaster thing at Vader, fails then fires up a lightsaber and him and Vader give it a little go while waiting for Luke.

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

Nightwing

06-16-2006, 01:53 PM

Ooooookaaaayy.............

Han with a lightsaber.......

hmm.......

I wonder how many periods I can put in a sentence?....................................

I would have put the scene with the Wampa in Echo Base back in the Special Edition or DVD. Also would have put the "deleted alternate beginning scene" of ANH separately on the DVD.

desertscorpion

06-16-2006, 03:02 PM

Kyle Kataryn always reminded me of what I thought Han would be like as a jedi. I guess that's why I thought he was so cool. Plus, he had the "It's not what you use, it's how you use it" view of the force.

Nightwing

06-16-2006, 03:33 PM

I think that he only said that so there'd be an excuse for a Jedi being able to use lightning and still be on the light side. I'd like to see the "Emerald Sparks" that Luke got in the newer novels put in the games.

naashar

06-16-2006, 03:44 PM

Gents:

Interesting points, all! I'm digging this topic, esp. the debate w/the balance and such. Total agreement with the whole whiney Skywalker-clan thing (Luke/Ani, here's a spoon to get the sand outta your &*$$y!), and did anyone else notice how the Skywalkers have a penchant for lopping off limbs?

Oh, I would've given the twins better names. You mean to tell me that, in a universe full of Obi-Wans, Qui-gons, and Anakins, the absolute best that Padme could come up with was Luke and Leia?? C'mon...Also, I would've eliminated that whole line from ROTS where she goes "Hold me. Hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo..." (I just threw up a little bit in my mouth[xx(])

I kinda support the whole Dooku mopping up the floor with Obi thing. I mean, dueling was Tyrannus' specialty! Plus, Obi needed a mark or two in the Loss column; it cements his humanity, his fallibility. Sure, he's probably one of my faves, and he had that whole "terrible-judge-of-character" thing going for 'im, but still. The true mark of a Champ is not how long you win, but what you do after you lose.

Another thing I would've added would be to add Ian McKellan as a venerable Jedi, or maybe a cameo as Darth Plageus the Wise. Now that kat can chew the scenery; 'nuff respect to Palps, but it would've been nice to see the Sith who could actually tolerate and train that guy.

You don't need to see any identification.

Beatboxer

06-17-2006, 12:28 AM

I actually really like rots but the worst part of the whole starwars series is how easy Anakin falls so damn suddenly to the sith.

I think there should have been some sort of struggle or blackmail or something.

Clone wars more accurately depicted the nature of the jedi as well, imo.

desertscorpion

06-17-2006, 07:18 AM

I don't think most people had a problem with Dooku beating Obi-Wan necessarily. It's the incredible number of inconsistencies. And Dooku's technique was never completely convincing as the "maximum skill with minimum energy expended." Here's the scorecard:

Obi-Wan beats Maul. Dooku beats Obi-Wan. Dooku beats Anakin, though Anakin shows promise. Dooku beats Obi-Wan, again, almost like he's a fly. Anakin beats Dooku. Obi-Wan beats Anakin. Maybe it's like Paper, Rock, Scissors, or something. Maybe Dooku's technique is the one that can possibly nix Obi-wan's, but if that's true it didn't come off as convincing. I personally don't like Obi's Form III, but even so, he should've been almost impenetrable defensively.

Oh! Hey! Off the topic. What about Sidious throwing the thingys at Yoda by the hundreds like their made of styrofoam, and then Yoda finally stopping one, taking ten seconds to get it spinning and then almost hitting Sidious. I was sooo impressed with that! Not! It made me say to myself, "Come on Yoda! Kick some stinkin' butt!! What was that crap?!" Yoda should've been levitating and crushing Sidious's internal organs with his mind.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by naashar

Gents:

Interesting points, all! I'm digging this topic, esp. the debate w/the balance and such. Total agreement with the whole whiney Skywalker-clan thing (Luke/Ani, here's a spoon to get the sand outta your &*$$y!), and did anyone else notice how the Skywalkers have a penchant for lopping off limbs?

Oh, I would've given the twins better names. You mean to tell me that, in a universe full of Obi-Wans, Qui-gons, and Anakins, the absolute best that Padme could come up with was Luke and Leia?? C'mon...Also, I would've eliminated that whole line from ROTS where she goes "Hold me. Hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo..." (I just threw up a little bit in my mouth[xx(])

I kinda support the whole Dooku mopping up the floor with Obi thing. I mean, dueling was Tyrannus' specialty! Plus, Obi needed a mark or two in the Loss column; it cements his humanity, his fallibility. Sure, he's probably one of my faves, and he had that whole "terrible-judge-of-character" thing going for 'im, but still. The true mark of a Champ is not how long you win, but what you do after you lose.

Another thing I would've added would be to add Ian McKellan as a venerable Jedi, or maybe a cameo as Darth Plageus the Wise. Now that kat can chew the scenery; 'nuff respect to Palps, but it would've been nice to see the Sith who could actually tolerate and train that guy.

You don't need to see any identification.
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naashar

06-17-2006, 08:48 AM

Ok, I agree, but let's not forget the whole "passage of time" thing. There was that little Clone Wars affair. He had some time to get out there, see the galaxy, grow into his own, find himself, that whole deal. And when it comes to that Master of Soresu thing, I read that it wasn't necessarily his mastery of the technique, but of the philosophy of soresu that allowed him to grow into being a top-notch fighter. Splitting hairs here, I know, but Dooku did kinda force fling his @$$ all into the platform, which he then dropped on 'im.

Besides, Christopher Lee is what, 90 years old?! There's only so much that can translate from the novels to celluloid.

I'm right there with you on the Yoda thing! In the Clone Wars Vol. II, he's flinging those troop transports all around, and he has trouble with a little box seating?!

You don't need to see any identification.

desertscorpion

06-17-2006, 08:52 AM

One of you older guys can help me. There's some old pirate movie where a guy takes his sword or dagger and slides downs a sail from the top to bottom, slicing it in two. I aways wanted to see a jedi do that to some large metal machine like an AT-AT or something, in the movies. Just open it up!

naashar

06-17-2006, 09:08 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by desertscorpion

One of you older guys can help me. There's some old pirate movie where a guy takes his sword or dagger and slides downs a sail from the top to bottom, slicing it in two. I aways wanted to see a jedi do that to some large metal machine like an AT-AT or something, in the movies. Just open it up!
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The flick was Captain Blood, starring King o' the Buckled Swashes, Errol Flynn. I think the closest we get to that was Clone Wars Vol. I, where Mace takes out the droid crater-maker thingie.

Yes. I said thingie.

You don't need to see any identification.

Daj Nallig

06-17-2006, 09:26 AM

S'allright, Sai Naashar-
We's all family here- even our black-cloaked brethren, the Sith Brotherhood. [:D] [}:)] [;)]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1/jdg61/JDN2.jpg

naashar

06-17-2006, 09:54 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Daj Nallig

S'allright, Sai Naashar-
We's all family here- even our black-cloaked brethren, the Sith Brotherhood. [:D] [}:)] [;)]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1/jdg61/JDN2.jpg

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Yeah, you're right. Like those uncles that no one likes to talk about. The ones that sit outside and watch all the little kids play and swim. Creepy.

You don't need to see any identification.

Mor-El Kesav

06-17-2006, 07:04 PM

Reading all of this has brought up another thing I found some what questionable in ROTS. Sidious takes out 3 Jedi Masters in a matter of seconds, not minutes, seconds. Sidious is supposed to be well over a hundred years old, while the Jedi were in their prime.

One of them is Kit Fisto who was supposed to have been one the all time great lightsaber duelists and a Master of Form I. I could see taking less powerful and experienced Jedis in mere seconds, but I thought that the taking out of those 3 combat experienced Jedi Masters in mere moments was rather lame. What were they doing, sleeping on duty or something? Shoot the Padawan that got killed in front of Senator Organa made a better showing than they did.

"Destroy the Sith we must!"
Master Yoda

http://www.theclanmuir.org/Small_Jedi_Starfighter.jpg

http://www.theclanmuir.org/CSA.jpg

LAN-ED-TUL

06-17-2006, 08:07 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by desertscorpion

One of you older guys can help me. There's some old pirate movie where a guy takes his sword or dagger and slides downs a sail from the top to bottom, slicing it in two. I aways wanted to see a jedi do that to some large metal machine like an AT-AT or something, in the movies. Just open it up!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

that was also shown and done in the movie, THE GOONIES

yeah, that padawan kicked some butt, till he got a blaster in his face. too bad, that scene of sidious, killing the other guys like that, i agree was lame as heck. but then, look at other things in the movies, i guess ya jus cant please everyone, so lucas did it the way he thought best, even tho, some of us think that certain things stunk to high heaven.
<center>http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/LAN-ED-TUL/LANSIG.jpg</center>

Lan-Ed-Tul
The Brotherhood Of The Sith

You dont know the POWER, of the dark side...

james3

06-17-2006, 08:24 PM

Mor-El your point is VERY good but I didn't think Palps was that old. I may have missed that though cause the clone wars cartoons make him look like he is 500 years old[:p]

I agree totally that with the band that Mace brought with him it should have been a better fight. The only thing I can say is the book did a much better job of describing the battle and I think the problem is that there was no way to really do the opening of that battle the way it was ment to be. Palps was moving at super-sith-speed and he actually took out one of the Jedi in the middle of his twirl trick. It was described that he took out the three other Jedi in something like a second or two while screaming traitors at the same time so he could go up agaist Mace. The movie battle was ackward and those guys should have had a few more shots at him but what can we do.

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

Mor-El Kesav

06-17-2006, 08:28 PM

In spite of the two minor irritants, as I see them, ROTS is my all time favorite movie. G.L. and crew did create an entire universe that wouldn't otherwise exist for us to enjoy. I rather enjoyed seeing him expand upon the character of Sidious. That was a character that needed to be explored in my opinion. Ian McDiarmid did a masterful job of portraying Sidious and it helped that he played that character in all but one of the movies that actually showed Sidious.

Sure many of us would like to see things break down differently, that being the essence of this thread, but it was G.L.’s story to tell and he told it as he envisioned it. I heartedly wish he would make the last 3 movies of the series as he had originally planned to do many years ago. Then we would have 3 more Star Wars movies to anticipate and relish as they were released. Ah, well. We’ll have the live action TV series to enjoy in about 2 years.

"Destroy the Sith we must!"
Master Yoda

http://www.theclanmuir.org/Small_Jedi_Starfighter.jpg

http://www.theclanmuir.org/CSA.jpg

james3

06-17-2006, 08:33 PM

I don't think that can be worded any better.

Agree 100% with you I do.

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

rohgan

06-18-2006, 10:00 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LAN-ED-TUL

that was also shown and done in the movie, THE GOONIES

yeah, that padawan kicked some butt, till he got a blaster in his face. too bad, that scene of sidious, killing the other guys like that, i agree was lame as heck. but then, look at other things in the movies, i guess ya jus cant please everyone, so lucas did it the way he thought best, even tho, some of us think that certain things stunk to high heaven.

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Firstly, The Goonies is a kingly movie, worthy even of Star Wars, IMO, and superior to RotS in many ways.

Secondly, I do believe that that padawan was in fact GL's son, hence he got to kick some serious ass.

Mor-El Kesav

06-18-2006, 12:58 PM

Zett Jukassa was the Padawan and he was played by Jett Lucas. This is according to the Star Wars databank. Somewhere, buried deep, is the statement that Sidious was well over 100 years old and they had to use make up to "age" Ian McDiarmid to fit the role. Sidious had unnaturally lengthed his life with Sith Alchemy and certain techniques of the Dark Side.

James, you are quite correct in you analysis, he was supposed to have been moving at "blinding speed". He caught the Jedi Masters off guard and was able to quickly dispatch all but Mace Windu in the first moments of the battle.

"Destroy the Sith we must!"
Master Yoda

http://www.theclanmuir.org/Small_Jedi_Starfighter.jpg

http://www.theclanmuir.org/CSA.jpg

Pirate King

06-18-2006, 02:46 PM

James, you are quite correct in you analysis, he was supposed to have been moving at "blinding speed". He caught the Jedi Masters off guard and was able to quickly dispatch all but Mace Windu in the first moments of the battle.
[/quote]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/martenthegreat/misc/audacity.jpg

{[[[(((o))EE[/==============

Darth Poo Head

06-18-2006, 08:50 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LAN-ED-TUL

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by desertscorpion

One of you older guys can help me. There's some old pirate movie where a guy takes his sword or dagger and slides downs a sail from the top to bottom, slicing it in two. I aways wanted to see a jedi do that to some large metal machine like an AT-AT or something, in the movies. Just open it up!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

that was also shown and done in the movie, THE GOONIES

yeah, that padawan kicked some butt, till he got a blaster in his face. too bad, that scene of sidious, killing the other guys like that, i agree was lame as heck. but then, look at other things in the movies, i guess ya jus cant please everyone, so lucas did it the way he thought best, even tho, some of us think that certain things stunk to high heaven.
<center>http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/LAN-ED-TUL/LANSIG.jpg</center>

Lan-Ed-Tul
The Brotherhood Of The Sith

You dont know the POWER, of the dark side...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

HEY YOU GUUUUYYYYSSSSS!!!!!!
Rocky Road????[:p]

It's not the Jedi way....

http://gallery.wewt.net/albums/Gipes-World/darth_poo_head_sig_3_06.jpg

james3

06-20-2006, 07:12 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mor-El Kesav

Zett Jukassa was the Padawan and he was played by Jett Lucas. This is according to the Star Wars databank. Somewhere, buried deep, is the statement that Sidious was well over 100 years old and they had to use make up to "age" Ian McDiarmid to fit the role. Sidious had unnaturally lengthed his life with Sith Alchemy and certain techniques of the Dark Side.

James, you are quite correct in you analysis, he was supposed to have been moving at "blinding speed". He caught the Jedi Masters off guard and was able to quickly dispatch all but Mace Windu in the first moments of the battle.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I guess that if Palps had some trick to cheat death then it would make sense that he would use it on himself.

<center>http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Dadof3/obiwan4.jpg</center>

seanwill

06-20-2006, 07:35 PM

One of my favorite things about Star Wars and any other large fiction universe (Harry Potter etc.) is that there is seemingly a whole world out there, where you could not possibly know everything about it. If I could change SW, I would get rid of some situations where things unrealistically overlap. The creature names for the forms for an example: Rancor, Mynock, Sarlacc, etc., it sort of makes it seem like there are only a dozen creatures in the SW universe. (Of course there are others, but these are all very often referenced.)

On the other hand, some things are meant to overlap by destiny: 3PO and R2 . . the importance of Tatooine etc.

Anyhow, I'd be interested to know if this kind os stuff bothers other people too?

SW

Tenric Starkindler

06-20-2006, 09:10 PM

I would change things so I was in GL's place........[:D][:o)]

Reality often interferes with what would otherwise be an idyllic delusion.

Yoiaholic

06-20-2006, 09:16 PM

One of my biggest issues with the films are the ewoks in episode VI. Its not that I don't like them (well I don't but I don't care that they are there) its just so incredibly unrealistic that they could beat the emperor's finest troops he hand picked with only stone weapons. It might have been better if they instead had to flee with the troops in persuit and the captuered rebels would have been able to destroy the bunker during the confusion. Star Wars was all about hi-techno-realism that those scenes kinda destroyed that.

Also being born in the early 80's I didn't grow up as the films were first released. I can say with honesty that Episode IV might be my least favorite (gasp). Its slow to develop and I find I watch it the least. In my opinion they spent way too much time on the death star. Conversely I loved Episode V the best (its now tied with III). Its dark, extrememly developed, and ends perfectly. Not everything can be roses and ewoks all the time. In fact I just wish that there was one great saga that evil triumphed. There aren't any that I can think of and it would just be a great change. Imagine if luke had fallen, how much different would everything have been? Interesting at least.

A non-film rant is the completely disorganized state of the EU books, contradictions, and STUPID additions to the star wars saga. I'm pretty much of the faith that anything Timothy Zahn writes should be considered the gold standard. He has great style and his writings are very simalar to the movies. Things like a re-born emperor and chewie dying should never have been written.

Comments?

_________________________

'Your swords please, we wouldn't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor.' -Count Dooku
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