Black Blade development...

[nartules]

Thought I would post this here, for all the tscc folks.* There seems to be some exciting developments on this contreversial discussion over at the fx-sabers forums.* I thought I would share for all that are interested.Here's the link to a thread titled 'Black Lightsaber Blade, a reality!!! Teaser first'http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=24111.0 Please remember to read through the entire post since a lot of the initial questions we had have had a few answers provided.:lol:I am not the individual who created the thread.* I am unable to confirm or deny authenticity of the pictures posted within. I am posting this link simply for those who may be interested.I am aware that this area is for pictures of lightsaber blades, but I did not want to post the picture directly here since it is not mine to post. Mod's, if this thread has been placed in the incorrect location please feel free to move, or delete it.* I was unsure which area of the site might be more appropriate over another.

[Knighthammer]

oh do keep us posted over here too =)

[TimeRender]

I anxiously await developments on this story.

[Strydur]

So you joined the forums just to make 2 posts pointing people to another forum where some guy says he has come up with a idea he is going to market.

Sounds a bit fishy to me.

[DJMoonbass]

lol. TIM PWNS!!!!

[Jase Kala Maris]

I think it's possible to get the dark saber effect to a degree, I've tossed around some ideas I think might work.

But... I don't think that effect could be as crisp as that. No matter how I think about it I just don't think it's possible. I'd like to see people try, like I said in the other Black Blade Thread? (maybe combine these two..) Contest? No Prize, or-unless someone actually pulls it off.:shock:

[Shadar Al'Niende]

I think it's possible to get the dark saber effect to a degree, I've tossed around some ideas I think might work.

But... I don't think that effect could be as crisp as that. No matter how I think about it I just don't think it's possible. I'd like to see people try, like I said in the other Black Blade Thread? (maybe combine these two..) Contest? No Prize, or-unless someone actually pulls it off.:shock:

IMO, not worth a contest...

[Sunrider]

I don't see what is so great about this idea. You go to a lot of trouble to make the blade bright & uniform then make it mostly dark? :confused: Mesa no get it.

[TimeRender]

I'm with Sunrider on this one. Even if it WERE possible, which it likely isn't, it seems an awful waste.

[psab keel]

On FX Sabers I have stated that while I applaud the person for experimentation, I do find it ridiculous that thread is being followed so closely on this forum in 3 different threads.

Altogether I think experimentation only furthers the hobby, but isn't this a bit silly to have that much interest in an idea that in essence defeats the purpose of a lightsaber (as a replica prop?)

Just my opinion and I know I'm probably inviting lots of attacks, but isn't it a bit like a farmer going out of his/ her way (financially and time-wise) to figure out a way to NOT let crops grow?

I, along with MANY others, was one of the first people to experiment with Luxeon Technology and trying to find ways to eliminate problems caused by uneven illumination in the blade. Now there is an absurd amount of effort to try and un-solve the very problems that plagued the technology in the first place. I just wish this idea would die out as it's only counterproductive, and I know I can't be the only one who feels this way.

Psab Keel

[psab keel]

As I've said in the thread on FX Sabers, after having calmed down a bit.... hahaha,

if it fills a niche in the hobby then so be it. I simply don't understand the appeal and still hold to my opinion that it's counter productive to the hobby, but to each their own.

Respectfully,

Psab Keel

[Matt Thorn]

So you joined the forums just to make 2 posts pointing people to another forum where some guy says he has come up with a idea he is going to market.

Sounds a bit fishy to me.
I didn't get the impression the guy was planning on "marketing" it, but maybe I didn't read the thread carefully enough. It seems that once the concept is revealed there's nothing to prevent any of us from imitating it. On the other hand, it does seem odd to join these forums solely for the purpose of drawing attention to a thread on fx-sabers. :???:

On FX Sabers I have stated that while I applaud the person for experimentation, I do find it ridiculous

<snipping cross-posted and bizarre agriculture analogy>

I just wish this idea would die out as it's only counterproductive, and I know I can't be the only one who feels this way.

Psab Keel
Psab, you might find your life a bit more productive if you didn't spend so much time attacking something you consider "counterproductive," yet which does not affect your life in the least. The entire global saber community is now well aware that you hate the concept of a dark-core blade. So you can give it a rest now.

Seriously. :wink:

[Jay-gon Jinn]

I didn't get the impression the guy was planning on "marketing" it, but maybe I didn't read the thread carefully enough. It seems that once the concept is revealed there's nothing to prevent any of us from imitating it. On the other hand, it does seem odd to join these forums solely for the purpose of drawing attention to a thread on fx-sabers. :???:

Psab, you might find your life a bit more productive if you didn't spend so much time attacking something you consider "counterproductive," yet which does not affect your life in the least. The entire global saber community is now well aware that you hate the concept of a dark-core blade. So you can give it a rest now.

Seriously. :wink:
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, Matt, whether you agree with it or not, so long as it doesn't violate the rules of the forum, which psab's post has not. Seriously. ;)

And yes, Senti does mention "doing a run" of those black-cored blades if there was enough interest in his first post of the topic. It's the line right under the picture, in case you missed it.

[cardcollector]

I wait to see how it is done before I jump on the "Aaaah I'm so excited bandwagon"

That picture couldv'e been photoshopped, and he hasn't provided any information...

[psab keel]

I view it as counterproductive because to me it's a step backwards in advancing the technology to create a more realistic illuminated blade.

But it's merely my opinion, and no one has to like it or agree with it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and we all have a right to voice it. In honesty, rereading my posts I found that while they drove the point home, I did so in an unnecessarily unkind manner. For that I apologize to you Senti Xamas.

Looking from a more constructive side, perhaps this will yield new discoveries that could aid in both sides of the technology.

For now it's probably best for me to not respond further on the matter as I have no intention of fanning any flames I have caused.

Senti, I hope you find what you seek.

MTFBWY, ALWAYS!

Psab Keel

[nartules]

well it seems like I can finally reply to posts, I trid to join the TSCC forums 7 months ago (when I joined fx-sabers) but the forums must have been having some type of issues, because I could never finalize the process. I tried to notify an administrator back then, but never got a reply.

So I have lurked around here for awhile, I saw Senti's post on fx-sabers and noticed no one had brought it up over here. There seemed to be interest and I would have posted in one of the previous threads, but most of them had turned into flame wars and had been closed by administrators on this site. Posting in the ones that were open did not appear likely to 'notify' people because those were also on the verge of turning into flame wars.

So I created a new thread. I remain skeptical of Senti's claims until I see more proof then one photo. It doesn't mean I can't be excited about it though. You can't blame him for not wanting to post the process until he is finished, if for nothing other then the right to claim he did it when no one else could. If he showed us all what he was doing, someone might beat him to the punch.

[nartules]

So you joined the forums just to make 2 posts pointing people to another forum where some guy says he has come up with a idea he is going to market.

Sounds a bit fishy to me.

I can understand how my recently joining could be seen as suspecious when I posted a link to someone who claims to be doing something other's claimed as impossible.

I tried to join previously,(back in august of last year). I couldn't finalize the process because I kept getting an error message. I sent notification several times from what the email provided with the pre-registration process and no one ever got back to me. I got frustrated and gave up, I couldn't fix the error myself and it wasn't worth it back then to try again. I have been a member of the fx-saber forums for quite some time, and had no issues posting there and most the people who post there duplicate the posts over here as well. I still have problems looking at posts where it requires you to log in to see the pictures (says something along the lines that I don't have permission to do so, or I have entered in the wrong account information)

Now that the forum is agreeing with my computer you will see many posts from me :)

When I noticed no one had let the saber peeps over here now about the current development I thought I would take the initiative and post about it, even though I had never done so before. Just trying to be friendly

[Matt Thorn]

Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, Matt, whether you agree with it or not, so long as it doesn't violate the rules of the forum, which psab's post has not. Seriously. ;)
Touché. ;) I was just expressing my opinion about how psab might more productively use his time and energy. :p


And yes, Senti does mention "doing a run" of those black-cored blades if there was enough interest in his first post of the topic. It's the line right under the picture, in case you missed it.
So he does. I did miss that. Yeah, definitely not cool to promote someone else's commercial product here, though I'm sure that's not what nartules had in mind.

For what it's worth (not much), I myself would probably never be interested in making a dark-core saber, but I am interested to see how he pulls it off. There might be other uses for the technique(s) that no one has thought of yet.

[DJMoonbass]

meh i dont see it as productive or counterproductive. not going forward or backwards but to the side more so. just trying out a different path.

but until i see more pics im calling BS for right now. for all i know it could be electrical tape on two sides of the blade leaving the sides free to emit light.
if its uniform from straigh on perspective of the blade: no matter where you look at it from its the same effect. ill applause it. ill BOW to it.

[Matt Thorn]

but until i see more pics im calling BS for right now. for all i know it could be electrical tape on two sides of the blade leaving the sides free to emit light.
So Senti is guilty of lying until proven innocent? What possible motivation could he have? :confused: Wait, don't answer that. I just think it's really obnoxious to accuse someone of lying without due cause.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

For what it's worth (not much), I myself would probably never be interested in making a dark-core saber, but I am interested to see how he pulls it off. There might be other uses for the technique(s) that no one has thought of yet.
Same here...not for me, but it would be interesting to see how it's done.

[TimeRender]

So Senti is guilty of lying until proven innocent? What possible motivation could he have? :confused: Wait, don't answer that. I just think it's really obnoxious to accuse someone of lying without due cause.

There is due cause here. The guy says his design is nowhere near complete, but somehow he is able to produce a photo that already looks pretty darn complete. Then he acts all shady about the particulars of his method and refuses to post more photos. That sounds suspicious, especially when he's talking about something that is nearly if not absolutely impossible. And while I don't understand what his motivation might be, he certainly wouldn't be the first to make claims that he cannot back up. Anyone remember Darth Kalel or Bodi? Remember that time travel video with the portal under the kitchen sink? Or the hutchison effect? People make big claims all the time, and sometimes it is OK to outright accuse the other guy of lying. I think this Senti guy is being dishonest as well. If you look at his photo, you can see a little bit of light flaring up around the edge of the black core. That's exactly what you would see if you took a photo of a lightsaber blade with an opaque shield laying on top of it.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

He's posted more pics...it *seems* to be a number of illuminated rods on the outside of a black rod that from certain, but not all, angles could produce an appearance of a lit outline around a black core...it looks ok from those angles and might be fine for a static display saber? Since some people do make sabers for display that may be good enough for them.

[Shadar Al'Niende]

He's posted more pics...it *seems* to be a number of illuminated rods on the outside of a black rod that from certain, but not all, angles could produce an appearance of a lit outline around a black core...it looks ok from those angles and might be fine for a static display saber? Since some people do make sabers for display that may be good enough for them.

Pretty much what i said over on FX. I think its great that he is coming up with new ideas. i just hope he does not think that this will appeal to the mainstream saber community as i believe he would be mistaken. I think the idea has merit, i just don't see the majority of people out there finding this "cool" or "exciting".

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

I think it is a cool effect for what it is but agree that its use would be limited...that said if I was making a Starkiller saber for a wall display it could be AWESOME...for most sabers the tried and true methods pioneered by many of the 'veterans' here and using parts available in the TCSS store are always going to be superior imo.

But this development DOES give us somewhere to point annoying n00bs who wont do their homework and ask "how can I make a black blade" instead of having to either flame or give them a physics lesson for the umpteenth time i.e "Hey n00b ya wanna black blade okee fine just lookeee over THERE ->>".

That alone may make this worthwhile eh? ;-)

[xl97]

IMHO.. whether its 'cool' or will be used by the mainstream is irrelevant.. now were the trend police?

None of that has no bearing on the facts of the project/scenario...

being shady about the posts, pics & comments
and the actual facts of light/black and all that is what matters.

Doesnt matter about his run anyways.. it will be RE'd as soon as one gets bought.. and someone will out him as being a fake or out the 'secret'.

Im just of the mind-set as many here are.. dont post about things you are GOING TO DO.. post development.. finished pics.. something substantial..

if I start hearing about solder being melted because it was left outside...I'll know what to do next! ;) hahaha

[psab keel]

OK,

You all know how I feel about the idea, but upon further reading and based on the pictures that have been provided, I am very impressed.

While it's not my type of blade, I have to highly applaud the results as it's truly innovative and unique and goes in a direction that I never really expected to work.

That being said, Senti has every right to protect his idea and not reveal how it is accomplished until he feels that the results are satisfactory.

As with any new developments in the saber world it's better to not reveal everything right away as it gives the sabersmith time to work out any kinks in the design and to avoid people disregarding it as a flawed. (As I was wrong to do from the beginning.)

Having come up with some original designs for different aspects of saber building I can fully understand Senti's motives of not wanting to reveal his technique. It doesn't mean that there is anything shady going on, but if he's come across a break through that could alter how we make sabers in the future then he may just want to test them fully to ensure that the progress made isn't a fluke and gets everyone's interests riled up for no reason.

I stand corrected in my short sightedness.

Psab Keel

[Shadar Al'Niende]

IMHO.. whether its 'cool' or will be used by the mainstream is irrelevant.. now were the trend police?

None of that has no bearing on the facts of the project/scenario...

being shady about the posts, pics & comments
and the actual facts of light/black and all that is what matters.

Doesnt matter about his run anyways.. it will be RE'd as soon as one gets bought.. and someone will out him as being a fake or out the 'secret'.

Im just of the mind-set as many here are.. dont post about things you are GOING TO DO.. post development.. finished pics.. something substantial..

if I start hearing about solder being melted because it was left outside...I'll know what to do next! ;) hahaha

Please do not misunderstand, my comment was not to be taken as attempting to be the trend police. My comment simply meant that i hope he does not have high hopes for this to be something that will become an industry standard and then be let down in this regard. That is never fun for anyone.

My point in commenting in such a manner was simply in response more to his initial "tone" and the hype that followed. It seems as if he brought in the idea, presenting it to the community as a breakthrough of something long coming in achievement and in a way it is.

Whether it is "cool" or not is up to everyone's individual tastes and opinions. I am not someone who is qualified to determine if an idea is a good one or not. Only to give my opinion.

I think it has its applications. I think there is room for innovations like this in the hobby. I do not think that it has widespread appeal or that it will become the "next big thing" that everyone will be doing on their sabers like crystal chambers or reverse sound...

Time may prove me wrong.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Well he has now said it does not use rods and if so I must retract my supoosition that this will be a display blade technology...it may have wide applicability afterall. How it will be accepted in the saber hobby will be for each of us to decide on our own...some may like it, some not.

But lets applaud a fellow saberfan for achieving something most of us have thought impossible or at least impractical. The spirit of innovation and the effort to realize it is something worthy of respect in this hobby, as anywhere eh?

[Rhyen Skytracker]

I know one saber that it will look great with. That is the Dark Light saber from the Clone Wars that I am making. lol I will post pics over here when I get closer to being done.

[xl97]

Shadar-

I wasnt trying to talk/comment on anyone 'directly'.. sorry if it came out that way.. just a general observation from many..

I just think, for me,.. forums are generally a place of sharing/community.

If its for him to protect and profit.. why the hints? and any mention of it until ready? and its perfected in their eyes? (especially on this/these types fo forums?)

If its for sharing and community best interest...etc curious as to why the 'mystery'?


for myself.. I think anything people do in hobby testing whether the results good or bad are to be apluaded..

however there is a time and place and tact to do things (not saying these/this crosses anything much yet)

I like to talk and brainstorm with a 'community' to get ideas and viewpoints on projects myself.

Just not clear if thats whats going on here..mentions of 'runs' and stuff make me think not.

[Shadar Al'Niende]

Well he has now said it does not use rods and if so I must retract my supoosition that this will be a display blade technology...it may have wide applicability afterall. How it will be accepted in the saber hobby will be for each of us to decide on our own...some may like it, some not.

But lets applaud a fellow saberfan for achieving something most of us have thought impossible or at least impractical. The spirit of innovation and the effort to realize it is something worthy of respect in this hobby, as anywhere eh?

no matter how the affect is achieved, it has still been stated that from a certain point of view the blade will look flat. The affect has not changed and therefore neither has my opinion...

XL no harm done, i just wanted to be clear on my intent as, after i read it, i realized how it could be taken. :D

[nartules]

The other thread does state there may be a run, but I did not mean to promote any sales on this site. I just wanted to share the developments. More pictures have been posted on page 7 in the fx saber's forum, but I still wish to see a video myself since it remains unclear just exactly has been done.

My account here was giving me error messages that I was not registered, but that appears to have been fixed now :)

[Matt Thorn]

People make big claims all the time, and sometimes it is OK to outright accuse the other guy of lying. I think this Senti guy is being dishonest as well. If you look at his photo, you can see a little bit of light flaring up around the edge of the black core. That's exactly what you would see if you took a photo of a lightsaber blade with an opaque shield laying on top of it.
That's just silly. Have you seen the new photos? If you think that look can be created with "an opaque shied laying on top," by all means, please reproduce the gimmick for us and expose the alleged snake-oil salesman. There is still absolutely nothing to suggest Senti is being "dishonest," and I hope that as a decent man, you would retract the accusation if it turns out you were wrong. Lightly accusing others of dishonesty is a bad reflection on your own character.

He's posted more pics...it *seems* to be a number of illuminated rods on the outside of a black rod that from certain, but not all, angles could produce an appearance of a lit outline around a black core.
That's even sillier as a theory for what's going on there. The operative term here is "from any angle." You do realize that in some cases a transparent solid can transmit light, but that the transmitted light can only been on one surface or from a certain angle, don't you? Fiber-optic technology, for example, would not be much use if the light scattered in all directions. And then there's the mineral Ulexite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulexite). And the fact that each person sees a different rainbow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow). In this case, the effect is one in which the light carried in the wall of the tube is invisible, with the exception of the light in the cross-section that is directly facing the viewer's eye. This happens "accidentally" all the time, though not with such sharp contrast.

If it turns out Senti is trying to mislead people (for some reason), I will admit I was wrong to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I would always rather admit to being fooled than to have to apologize for falsely accusing someone of lying.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

A video is indeed needed to answer many questions. Does the blade look normally round with it appearing flat occasionally from a minority of angles or vice versa? Video will tell.

@ Matt.

His pictures on FX sabers were originally not clickable and by saving and enlarging them it did appear there were multiple rods involved; the 'bright' sections appeared to have circumferential lines around them under magnified views suggesting rods...he has SINCE said no rods are involved and I accept his word and posted subsequently to that effect - I have never said he is "lying" about anything. You seem 'defensive' about 'attacks' that are not coming, at least not from me; I believe he HAS found something here and good for him. Until he tells more about his methodology or someone who buys one REs it and we all find out how he's done it we will naturally continue to have questions what/how this is.

He himself has admitted it does NOT look the same "from any angle" but CAN appear flat some of the time...how often remains a question which I hope video will answer.

[Sunrider]

He states


Now, not every single angle will have the black core. When held a certain way, the blade will appear flat, which means only one line is visible, but a very slight turn and the edges are both lit again.

Not a 360 degree black blade so sounds like 180 degrees of solid appearance & 180 degrees of the absence of light lightsaber blade.;)

[Matt Thorn]

Not a 360 degree black blade so sounds like 180 degrees of solid appearance & 180 degrees of the absence of light lightsaber blade.;)
I missed that disclaimer. If that's really all he has--something that gives that look from only one angle--that would be a pretty sorry "invention." :???:

[Shadar Al'Niende]

Now, not every single angle will have the black core. When held a certain way, the blade will appear flat, which means only one line is visible, but a very slight turn and the edges are both lit again.

That quote was the basis for my comments... (see above statements)

[TimeRender]

That's just silly. Have you seen the new photos? If you think that look can be created with "an opaque shied laying on top," by all means, please reproduce the gimmick for us and expose the alleged snake-oil salesman.

No. As a matter of fact I have not. Even as I write this I have only seen the first pic, which COULD easily be reproduced by simply applying some black electrical tape to a regular blade. I'll have to go look at his newer pics. However, it sounds as though he has in fact only been able to create a blade that appears this way from one angle, which suggests that I was correct all along. Nevertheless, I don't feel the need to retract or apologize for anything, since all that I stated was a realistic level of doubt over some incredibly vague claims. If he turns out to have been telling the truth all along, he will vindicate himself and nothing I said will have mattered one bit.

Edit: I've taken a look at the pics and I stand by what I said. It looks like he made a lot of fuss over nothing. It looks exactly like he has just used something opaque on two sides of the blade to shield the light. It probably is just electrical tape. He hasn't in my eyes created a black bladed saber, nor has he done anything that hasn't been mentioned on any of the other black blade threads before. And THAT is why sometimes it is acceptable to call shenanigans.

Edit Edit: I have decided to accept your challenge to reproduce the effect. It took me a little longer than I expected because I couldn't find the electrical tape. It was a rush job, so it's slightly crooked, but so was the tape in one of Senti's pictures. Plus I didn't have the benefit of all of the "development" that Senti did. I guess that means mine also has "several steps to go through before the final stages are complete". With talk like that you would think he had designed a new shuttle for Nasa, not just stuck tape to a blade. Anyway, without further adieu, my results...
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/TimeRender/100_4571.jpg

[Lord Dottore Matto]

If you guys really want a dark core blade just lemme know and I will have one done in one week...;)

[Matt Thorn]

Thanks, LDM. Looking forward to seeing the results. I have myself perfected a dark-core, dark-outline blade, which requires an empty polycarb tube and a dark room. No LED necessary! :p

TimeRender: Touché. Senti's additional photos and explanation would seem to indicate that he is using a gimmick that is similar in concept, if not in actual execution, to what you did there. Which would be a major disappointment. :???:

Getting back to what I said about the theoretical possibility of a true dark-core blade, the more I think of it, the more I think it cannot be done with traditional blade material. When you put a polycarb tube in a hilt with no diffuser, you get a "dark core," but by no means a black core, because even the tiniest irregularity in the surface of the tube is lit up to some extent. In theory, you might be able to create an effect like that with a tube of glass polished to telescope-optic quality. But it is also possible that even the edges of such a tube would be invisible, and light would be transmitted only to the opposite end of the tube, just like what happens with optic fiber. There might be some kind of transparent material out there that would show light only in the cross-section of the tube directly facing the viewer, but I've never seen such stuff.

Any experts in optics on the forums? ;)

[Shadar Al'Niende]

No. As a matter of fact I have not. Even as I write this I have only seen the first pic, which COULD easily be reproduced by simply applying some black electrical tape to a regular blade. I'll have to go look at his newer pics. However, it sounds as though he has in fact only been able to create a blade that appears this way from one angle, which suggests that I was correct all along. Nevertheless, I don't feel the need to retract or apologize for anything, since all that I stated was a realistic level of doubt over some incredibly vague claims. If he turns out to have been telling the truth all along, he will vindicate himself and nothing I said will have mattered one bit.

Edit: I've taken a look at the pics and I stand by what I said. It looks like he made a lot of fuss over nothing. It looks exactly like he has just used something opaque on two sides of the blade to shield the light. It probably is just electrical tape. He hasn't in my eyes created a black bladed saber, nor has he done anything that hasn't been mentioned on any of the other black blade threads before. And THAT is why sometimes it is acceptable to call shenanigans.

Edit Edit: I have decided to accept your challenge to reproduce the effect. It took me a little longer than I expected because I couldn't find the electrical tape. It was a rush job, so it's slightly crooked, but so was the tape in one of Senti's pictures. Plus I didn't have the benefit of all of the "development" that Senti did. I guess that means mine also has "several steps to go through before the final stages are complete". With talk like that you would think he had designed a new shuttle for Nasa, not just stuck tape to a blade. Anyway, without further adieu, my results...
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/TimeRender/100_4571.jpg



classic.... thanks for the chuckle TR

[TimeRender]

I eat bowls of snark for breakfast. You're welcome Shad.

[Sunrider]

Edit Edit: I have decided to accept your challenge to reproduce the effect. It took me a little longer than I expected because I couldn't find the electrical tape. It was a rush job, so it's slightly crooked, but so was the tape in one of Senti's pictures. Plus I didn't have the benefit of all of the "development" that Senti did. I guess that means mine also has "several steps to go through before the final stages are complete". With talk like that you would think he had designed a new shuttle for Nasa, not just stuck tape to a blade. Anyway, without further adieu, my results...


LOL he he:lol:

[Goltar Bias]

Honestly looking at the pic is the post i dont think it is electrical tape but rather a more complicated, time consumeing, and expesive process. Where he took several polycarb tubes and cut them into 4 sections length wise the matched the 2 clear to 2 black. With the black being coated in a fully reflective manner to produce a true black and have the light spill out through the clear. Which would give you a lot of light to produce a very even edge. But this is just my 2 cents on it. Personaly I think the lenticular idea proposed here http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=9188 would produce the desired effect better.

[TimeRender]

I'm certain that that is not the case Goltar. You can clearly see in two of the pics that he applied the tape crookedly, and in a few pics you can clearly see the sides that were not taped off. He may not actually have used tape, but he clearly applied the same concept.

[Matt Thorn]

I had completely missed that older thread on the subject, but I think that Goltar is correct that the lenticular lens concept is, so far, the closest thing to a conceivable real-world solution. Whether the light source is transmitted up the wall of the tube, or the inside of the tube, you would need a setup in which, no matter where the viewer stands or how many viewers there are, only the light on the outer edge would be visible. Another possibility that leaps to mind is some kind of Polaroid effect, but I have no idea how it could actually be implemented. There is a kind of film sometimes used on windows that makes the window opaque (white) when looking at it straight on, but transparent when seen at a sharp enough angle. (I used this on a bathroom window in my previous home. Too bad I had a major fall-out with the architect who installed it, or I could ask him a black version. :p)

A black version of such film (assuming it is possible and exists), wrapped around a blade might achieve the "dark core, bright aura" effect easily. ("Privacy film" used on mobile phone displays does the opposite, making them transparent only when viewed straight on, but opaque when seen from an angle.)

But, whether Senti is using black tape (He says he isn't) or doing something as labor-intensive as Goltar suggests, it would seem, [B]at this point, to be a gimmick, analogous to the "X-Ray Glasses" they used to advertise in the back of comic books versus a high-tech full-body scanner of the kind they use in some airports these days. If you squint and use your imagination, you can convince yourself that it kinda looks like the sabers in the video game, but still... :???:

Time will tell.

Or not. ;)

EDIT: Come to think of it, in the bathroom window example I mentioned, that wasn't film applied to regular glass: it was a property of the glass itself. So much for wrapping it around something. ;)

EDIT: Actually, there is such a film (http://www.lumistyfilm.com/lumisty.htm). But it only "fogs", like frosted glass, and it allows light to pass through, so while the effect on a saber blade might (or might not) be interesting, it certainly wouldn't result in a "dark core". Come to think of it, this might be an interesting diffuser for an LED-ladder blade. Hm...

[KuroChou]

Anybody ever heard of "total internal reflection"?
It's the property of light that allows fiber optics to work, where the optic cable in question appears unlit, except at the ends and any defects in the cable (breaks, scratches, etc.).
I thought about "dark core" blades, by using just that: a dark core.
A regular polyC blade with an opaque interior would clearly be black in the center, but the plastic walls would still carry the light just the same, giving a dark core with illuminated edges.
The edge effect would be caused by the addition of light.
If you look at a regular blade, the edges appear thicker than the center, simply because they are (1/2" visible material, instead of 1/8").
If you assume the light contained by the polyC follows this pattern, the edges would appear substantially brighter than the core, even though they possess the exact same light density.

This doesn't explain how he got such crisp lines, and almost completely discredits it as his method, but it might still be worth exploring on it's own.

[TimeRender]

Ok, seriously, I JUST explained why that won't work Kuro. I'm not enjoying having a second thread on this subject...

An opaque inner tube WILL NOT create this effect. It has been suggested about 100 times, and it has been thoroughly refuted.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Timerender is correct and to save him the bother I'll explain that IF there is a dark core with the walls carrying the light you won't be able to see the dark core THROUGH the light.

Put something black behind a light bulb, turn it on, can you see its darkness THROUGH light?

No.

[Matt Thorn]

TimeRender, Kurochou carefully qualified his statements, and was talking specifically about "total internal reflection." Like I wrote, even in an un-diffused PolyC tube, imperfections will pick up light over the entire surface, but much more so on the edges than on the center. A black core would darker the center slightly, simply by hiding light on the back wall of the tube (though, obviously, not hiding any light on the front wall, for reasons pointed out many times). Just saying. ;)

I am increasingly inclined to think that a genuine dark core effect is not possible with PolyC.

Unless the makers of "Lumisty" come out with a version that completely blocks light from certain angles, rather than just "fogging.":p

[TimeRender]

Matt, oh you disappoint me. What I took objection to, and I have explained this many many many times, is the dark core. Under a normal LED setup, a black core will prevent light from escaping the blade holder. Period. There are still 100 other reasons why this won't work, but that is the fundamental problem. That proves that even YOU haven't read what I have been saying all along. I feel that the only way I can get people to understand this BASIC problem is to draw a diagram. I will return...

Edit: I'm back. My CAD software hasn't been reinstalled since I reformatted last, so it's just a simple paint sketch.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/TimeRender/quicksketch.jpg
The left represents a regular single LED lightsaber blade in cross-section. I know the scale isn't quite right, so please don't nitpick. The right represents an LED blade with an opaque black core. Now, light travels in straight lines from the point of origin, in this case the LED and optic. However, it doesn't travel parallel to the length of the blade. Instead it fans out. This is important. If the light traveled parallel to the blade, it would never cross paths with the diffuser and you would never see it. If you want to illustrate this point for yourself, go grab a laser pointer and shine it down the center of a blade. Your blade won't light up. That's because the light isn't coming in contact with the diffuser. So in the picture on the left, you can see how the light fills the entire inside of the blade as it fans out from the optic. On the left, an opaque blade insert has been added. The light still fans out in straight lines from the optic, but it cannot CHANGE DIRECTION after it passes the opaque obstruction. What that means, and the picture illustrates this, is that the light will NEVER leave the blade holder. Period. Internal reflection doesn't become a factor at all because there is no light for the interior to reflect. Now, a SMALL amount of that light will be scattered by the diffuser back into the blade and up towards the blade's tip. However, all you will see is a thin halo of light around the emitter. Have you seen Chaos's blade plugs? It would look kinda like that, only with a big ugly unlit blade attached. Now, there is a way around this... sortof... and I will post another picture as soon as I have drawn it.

Edit Edit: Ok. Now, someone suggested that an optic be made that can get around the problem of the opaque core blocking the light. I said that such an optic WAS possible, but that it would never be made because it would have no practical application. Here is a simple sketch of what would be required.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/TimeRender/quicksketch2.jpg
Now, you'll notice that the optic in this diagram is the same diameter as the blade. This would be necessary. That means that a blade holder would have to be modified, or you would have to wait for one of the new ones that Tim is working on now. Additionally, the optic would work best if it was designed to project a doughnut shaped beam rather than one that is solid and brightest at it's center. This would reduce wasted luminous intensity. Next, and this isn't represented in my sketch, the optic would need to have a very low angle and it would need to direct the light in such a way that it is brightest at the inner edge of the doughnut. However, if ALL of this could be done, you would still come across the second problem which is that when a transparent object becomes illuminated, it loses it's apparent transparency. If you dimmed the light enough, this internal reflection idea might work. However, what you would have is merely a dim blade with a brighter aura, and the difference between the two would not be very noticeable. If you increased the brightness the illusion would be destroyed entirely because you would restore the opacity. Your blade would also have to sacrifice it's diffuser film, because that would blend the light so much that the difference between the dim core and slightly less dim aura would no longer be visible.

Let's just wrap this up. An opaque core WILL NEVER be the solution to this problem. Period.

[cardcollector]

I have a solution to this whole ordeal...

Buy a Smoky black blade from TCSS, Throw A LED in there so it will be dim at night...

And be happy with a black blade in the daytime...

[Shadar Al'Niende]

i have a solution to this whole ordeal...

Buy a smoky black blade from tcss, throw a led in there so it will be dim at night...

And be happy with a black blade in the daytime...

qft!!!

[psab keel]

Time Render,

"Please excuse the crudity of this model as I didn't have time to make it to scale or paint it." -Doc Brown.


One interesting thing I learned from reading 365 Days: Creating the worlds to Star Wars is that Black paint doesn't block light as well as silver paint does. Perhaps that has something to do with it. My thought was that it could be a dual tube system, a 3/4 inch polycarbonate tube painted black and slid inside a 1 inch (both thin walled), essentially one of my old designs just substituting white paint for black. But I'm not sure this is the case because the outside of the 3/4 tube would be more reflective and the black core would be somewhat illuminated in spots where the paint was unevenly applied. Just a thought.

[TimeRender]

Psab, it has nothing to do with the color of the tube. My point would remain the same with ANY opaque inner blade. The light from the LED MUST travel through the center of the blade, and an opaque obstruction would prevent that from happening.

But thanks for the Doc Brown reference.

[HerrTenko]

Well I've got to say I'm quite impressed at the amount of passion and debate this topic tends to unleash... Yet I wish to wait for the moment when Senti will finaly reveal the truth about his blades. Untill then, I tend to find it quite inelegant to attack the guy so violently.

[Matt Thorn]

I agree with HerrTenko. We are developing an image over at fx-sabers as being a mean-spirited bunch, which I know is not the case. Can we just wait to see what he comes up with before assassinating his character? This topic does not merit the level of negative emotion it seems to be generating.

[Shadar Al'Niende]

I don't think the general consensus is that anyone here is attacking the guy personally. I believe that this is an issue of the idea being attacked. (as it always has been.)

I think some people need to relax, and be less sensitive...

[TimeRender]

Yeah, I have to agree with Hertenko. No one else may have, but I did make it rather personal when I said bluntly that I believed he was being dishonest and exaggerating his claims, and while I stand behind my words, I do apologize if it has changed the opinion that others may have of this forum as a whole rather than only their opinions of me. I've always been blunt and have never really been bothered by the negativity that it often draws toward me, but it has never been my intention to make a bad name for everyone else here.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

I don't see how anyone can say that there has ONLY been an attacking of the idea on this thread when some people have used the terms "b.s.", "shenanigans", "lying" and "dishonest", all of which is ad hominem imo...I can certainly understand why Senti Xamas might feel that kind of language might constitute a personal attack.

As for attacking the idea despite some assumptions we still don't really know what this idea IS yet. So attacking what we don't yet understand just might be a teensy bit premature eh? Maybe we should wait to see what he delivers before jumping to conclusions hmmm?

edit: beaten to the punch...I gotta learn to compose posts and type faster...

[Shadar Al'Niende]

Let me clarify my previous comment. While there have been some "attacks" against him, there was a generalization that TCSS as a whole had called him a liar, etc. I referred in kind with a generalization of this thread. This thread in general, has been the discussion of the idea, not the presenter of said idea.

[Jm419]

No. As a matter of fact I have not. Even as I write this I have only seen the first pic, which COULD easily be reproduced by simply applying some black electrical tape to a regular blade. I'll have to go look at his newer pics. However, it sounds as though he has in fact only been able to create a blade that appears this way from one angle, which suggests that I was correct all along. Nevertheless, I don't feel the need to retract or apologize for anything, since all that I stated was a realistic level of doubt over some incredibly vague claims. If he turns out to have been telling the truth all along, he will vindicate himself and nothing I said will have mattered one bit.

Edit: I've taken a look at the pics and I stand by what I said. It looks like he made a lot of fuss over nothing. It looks exactly like he has just used something opaque on two sides of the blade to shield the light. It probably is just electrical tape. He hasn't in my eyes created a black bladed saber, nor has he done anything that hasn't been mentioned on any of the other black blade threads before. And THAT is why sometimes it is acceptable to call shenanigans.

Edit Edit: I have decided to accept your challenge to reproduce the effect. It took me a little longer than I expected because I couldn't find the electrical tape. It was a rush job, so it's slightly crooked, but so was the tape in one of Senti's pictures. Plus I didn't have the benefit of all of the "development" that Senti did. I guess that means mine also has "several steps to go through before the final stages are complete". With talk like that you would think he had designed a new shuttle for Nasa, not just stuck tape to a blade. Anyway, without further adieu, my results...
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/TimeRender/100_4571.jpg

Timerender, you seem highly critical of everything to do with these "black blades." While I'm not interested in getting into a flamewar, I do think it's inappropriate to continue to criticize another saber enthusiast about a widely anticipated idea simply because you do not think it can be done. Perhaps you should wait to see if someone could have figured out something which your apparently vast knowledge of optics has overlooked. No one is omniscient, and I feel that it'd be far better for someone who wasn't interested in coming across as intolerant to wait and see what the future may hold.

Oh, and by the way, it's "without further ado." "Without further adieu" is a mishmash of French and English which, if translated into a single language, reads "without further goodbye" or "sans autre au revoir."

[Lord Maul]

People, keep this civil or posts will be removed and threads will be locked. No more direct flaming of other members will be tolerated. Remember, this is just a fun hobby for us all. No need to get angry over the topic.

First and only warning ;)

[Matt Thorn]

Jm419, you didn't have to sign up just to smack back at TimeRender. We were just getting things under control, and TimeRender himself made a very conciliatory post just hours ago. No need to throw fuel on the flames. (And ad hominem gibes about someone's typing errors are never very productive, as a rule.;))

Edit: Lord Maul got to it before me.

[TimeRender]

It isn't "simply" because I "believe" it cannot be done. It is because of my understanding of the science involved, because of the way he has described the work he has done, and because of the images he has produced. There are discrepancies between what he says and what I have observed, though I will be the first to admit that I cannot possibly observe EVERYTHING about his design in the photos that he provided. Furthermore I do not believe that there is anything wrong with expressing skepticism. Skepticism is a normal and healthy response to claims that seem to contradict what you know or believe to be true. Do not mistake my doubts for closed mindedness, though. If he reveals his techniques, or if his results can be legitimately confirmed, I will be most interested to know the results.

And I do make mistakes. "Ado" is correct.

Now did you really join the forum JUST to join an argument? This is after all your first post.

Edit: Sorry for posting this after LM asked us to cool things down. He must have posted while I was still typing. My apologies.

[Master Dai Bendu]

Hey Timerender, sorry to contact you in an open forum, but I can't seem to message you anywhere else.

I enabled e-mails from members, so shoot me an e-mail and I'll chat with you that way.

Thanks,

Bob

[TimeRender]

It doesn't seem to have worked, I can't find a way to email you, but no worries, I would be happy to discuss this openly with the entire forum. I was going through some posts on the FX forum and I saw that you posted the suggestion that polarized film could be used to create this effect, but that you would have to be wearing polarized glasses. I was intrigued because I recently had the same thought as well. I was hoping we could discuss this a bit.

It occurred to me that if the orientation of the polarization was either parallel OR perpendicular to the direction of the blade, the polarization would always be oriented in the same direction relative to the glasses around all 360 degrees of the blade. However, if the film was oriented horizontally, it the polarization could be at a 90 degree angle to the viewer's glasses at the front of the blade, the back of the blade would be oriented in the same direction as the glasses, and the sides would be oriented at 0 and 180 degrees respectively. That SHOULD create a black line the runs the length of the blade and remains centered no matter what angle the blade is viewed from. However, it would still only be viable as a display piece since the moment the lightsaber is moved the orientation of the film in relation to the viewer would change.

That got me thinking about the possibility of using TWO polarized films on the same blade. When viewed straight on, the films would always be crossed at 90 degrees. However, if there was a gap between the first and second films, the relative orientation would be slightly skewed, and this should allow a small amount of light to escape around the edges. Now, because the difference in their orientations would only be very slight, the amount of light would be minimal. However, unlike other options for creating this effect which would require re-writing the laws of physics, this particular problem could be circumvented in the future with the development of brighter lighting options.

Without a diagram I fear that what I am suggesting might make little sense, but I was hoping you would chime in since this was your idea also, and since we both seemed to be overlooked when we mentioned the idea on our respective forums.

[Jm419]

Jm419, you didn't have to sign up just to smack back at TimeRender. We were just getting things under control, and TimeRender himself made a very conciliatory post just hours ago. No need to throw fuel on the flames. (And ad hominem gibes about someone's typing errors are never very productive, as a rule.;))

Edit: Lord Maul got to it before me.

No, I didn't sign up just to "smack back" at TimeRender. I've been on the forums for some time, but never felt the need to spam up the boards with such noobish posts as "Hi, I'm Jm419...."

I don't mean to offend anyone; it just struck me as though the developer of the blade has been coming under a lot of fire from a lot of people, and my intention was to get that to stop. I apologize, TR, I didn't intend to come across so strongly.

[TimeRender]

You may have visited before, but you only just joined today. Still I accept your apology. I don't feel I had been excessively critical of Senti, but I am sorry that it has dirtied others opinions of this board. TCSS has always been welcome of innovation, and so am I.

[Jm419]

:) Let's keep discussion rolling here.

I admit it could be electrical tape; but from the sound of things over at FX-Sabers, Senti is coming close to finishing things up. We should have some information about it in the next few days.

[Tyhm]

On the other (identical) thread all we can figure is lenticular sheeting (so you can only see the light if it's at an angle to the viewer - but such sheets tend to run ~$200), or a sort of Staggered Zoetrope setup for the same thing (see figure 1 below). The Hollow Finned Core (see figure 2 below) would work somewhat for very short sabers; the light in the middle (1) would be dimmer, but not True Black, and the light at the brightest point (2) would only be dim, not True White, to allow the viewer to see the core's difference at all; ultimately you would have to dim the saber to the point that it's not fully lit in order to see the core, which sort of defeats the purpose. Further complicating matters, if you use an Older Technology to keep the whole blade lit (LED Strings, EL Wire), you have the problem of getting the light out from the core without lighting the core itself. It MIGHT be possible with a second LED at the tip, the wires integrated in the fins, secured and padded for dueling...but I don't think anyone's interested in going to that much expense for a GRAY-core blade.

[Matt Thorn]

I had mentioned the possibility of using the Polaroid effect a few days ago, but my more promising (?) mention of the product "Lumisty" seems to have been passed over. Lumisty (http://www.glassfilmenterprises.com/lumisty.htm) is a film currently available in four "flavors" (see below) that is either transparent or "frosted", depending on where the viewer stands and the angle.

http://www.lintec.co.jp/products/construction/wf/images/lum_pic_02.gif

It has be put to some very clever use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1GPQ8sSiCU
http://www.glassfilmenterprises.com/recent_projects.htm

One important feature of the film is allowing light to pass through while protecting privacy, but if was such a film that completely blocked light when viewed straight on, it would be a ridiculously simple solution to the elusive "true dark core" problem. Of course, unless you happen to work at MIT's Center for Materials Science and Engineering (http://mit.edu/cmse/), this is not something a hobbyist can just toss off in a few weeks.

But since Lumisty seems to be more popular as a means of creating cool effects, rather than simply "letting in light while protecting privacy," it seems logical to expect the maker (Lumisty was created by Sumitomo Chemical--not exactly a Mom & Pop outfit) to come out with variations, including complete opacity.

[Goltar Bias]

Reminds me of the computer screen filters you can get they are black from an angle but you can see through when looking straight at it. And that did completly block light and look black, again same problem reverse of what we are looking for. But knowing the reverse exists mean it is possible.

[Matt Thorn]

Reminds me of the computer screen filters you can get they are black from an angle but you can see through when looking straight at it. And that did completly block light and look black, again same problem reverse of what we are looking for. But knowing the reverse exists mean it is possible.
Precisely.

[TimeRender]

Yeah, that sounds promising if (when) it becomes affordable so long as its properties aren't changed or destroyed on a round surface. Everything gets cheaper in time, so maybe some day we will all be experimenting with this material.

On a side note, I would like to make something clear. I've been reading the thread over on FX so I can stay up-to-date on the progress over there, but something has been bothering me. A lot of people have been generating a lot of hype, thanking him for doing something that has been considered impossible, for creating something that has never been created before, and for experimenting rather than just speculating. For the record, no one to my recollection has ever said that a 2-dimensional black core blade would be impossible. Many of us have talked about that here since the game first came out. If it turns out that he HAS created a true 3-dimensional black core blade, I will enthusiastically commend him for his contribution to the hobby. I may even buy one. However, if he has merely created a silhouette within his blade, then I don't feel anyone should mistakenly credit him with accomplishing "the impossible". I just wanted to get that in writing BEFORE he reveals his video so that no one here can be accused of back peddling when his methods are finally put to the test. I hope it prevents at least a few flamewars.

[Sunrider]

I would also expect it to be fairly bright to consider it to be a success. If you can only see the aura in a dark room then:?::rolleyes:

[Matt Thorn]

TimeRender, I think there are a lot of people on both forums who will, almost reflexively, respond, "Dude that is so cool!" to just about anything and everything. :rolleyes: Reminds me of an old friend who used to joke about another friend that he would heap praise on any movie he saw, simply because he was fascinated by the phenomenon of pictures moving on a big screen. :p We do get a lot of that here. You could upload a photo of a half-eaten tuna fish sandwich to the Gallery, say it's your new hilt, and at least one person would respond, "Dude that is so cool." :cool:

[TimeRender]

LOL! That makes my whole day! It also makes me hungry... Are you going to finish that sandwich?

[Tyhm]

If he winds up admitting he can only make it work from one angle, I'd love to be able to say "Huh, don't feel so bad about ours only working half as well" and posting a video of it...;-D

[TimeRender]

I don't understand what you mean.

[Tyhm]

I want to try and get the lensatic or zoetrope or even the bent-polarized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer) or finned solid-core sabers tested, so when dudeguy of FX (I can't be bothered to figure out his name or go there myself) releases his "Yeah, it's just electrical tape on the inside, only works from this side" video, we can rebutt with "Huh, more's the pity; we got one that works." I'd laugh, anyway.
But I don't have access to a saber, much less any of the nifty films that would be necessary...I'm wondering vaguely though if the car-window tinting film is polarized though, if applying it to the inside and outside of a thick-wall tube would cause the slits to line up in interesting ways (like a much higher resolution version of the zoetrope)...we'd probably have to go full-custom to get that to work though, to make it match up all the way around...I doubt we could get polarized film in the exact dispersals we need so that the inside and outside filters line up...

Still, it'd be amusing to follow up an expected disappointment with an unexpected reveal.

[Tyhm]

(Point taken on the stinger from my prior post; I couldn't think of quite how I wanted to end it, and was rushing off to work. Shame on me, I should know better.)

I don't think I'm explaining it too well, and I'm not allowed by the forum software to repost a visual explanation I've already posted, but:
Polarized film (like the hypothetical window tinting) can be viewed as a sort of pattern of horizontal lines, alternating clear and dark.
Two planes of polarized film aligned with parallel "lines" are just Rather Dark, as the light gets filtered twice; two planes aligned with perpendicular "lines" make an opaque, as the only light that can get through is going both horizontally and vertically at the same time...all this is explained on the previously linked Wiki.
I wonder if 1) the Zoetrope theory (posted previously, and I can't repost the image anymore because the forum won't let me) worked, 2) polarized film would be a particularly fine-grained version of the same thing. Of course, I probably ought to get a saber and prove 1 before we start dreaming of 2, and prove 2 before we start trying to minimize costs via the automotive section at WalMart...
Y'know what? I'll animate the previous illustration and post that, one sec...there. The overlapping areas of light were driving me batty, trying to get them all in one static image; the point is (and no, I'm not suggesting the light rotate or anything silly like that), that light coming from the edges will hit the eye directly, while light from the middle can't. It's a crude illustration, but have I communicated the theory? Like if the only way out from a round room is to go out a doorway, take a step to the side, and go out another doorway; the light can't just run straight out.

Aaand of course it's a thumbnail. >_<

[TimeRender]

That's not how polarizing film works. What you're describing is like venetian blinds. Polarized film doesn't create striations despite the common illustrations that attempt to explain it. An individual light wave vibrates in a single plane. Light emitted from a source is composed of light waves that vibrate in many many planes. Furthermore, these planes can be described across multiple axis so that every wave regardless of angle can be said to have an x and y component ranging from 0 to 90 degrees. Polarized film restricts all light waves from one axis. Optical grade film therefore always blocks exactly 50% of the light that attempts to pass through it, and when two films are crossed at 90 degree angles it will block out 100% of the light. The stuff used in automotive films is no where near that effective and would likely be unable to produce the desired effect. I'm probably not doing a very good job of explaining it, so just take my word for it or ask an optical mineralogist.

Edit: I just read that wiki link you posted and they do explain it correctly, but it could be tricky to try to understand it that way if you don't already have some experience with it.

[Tyhm]

Nah, I get it. I had hoped it'd be a cheap and easy readily-available source of (pseudo-)microscopic-grade "venetian blinds" film, but I suppose I'll just have to make it myself...
It occurs to me that it Would be quite possible to print a pattern of black lines with acceptable accuracy on transparent film using one of those industrial printers, or even the kind they have at Kinkos; not cheap, but perfectly fine-tuned so that one sheet is, let's say, 3' x (1"*π) and has exactly 360 black stripes and 360 clear stripes, and the next sheet is 3' x (0.98"*π) yet also has exactly 360 black stripes and 360 clear stripes...

But I should probably focus on cobbling together a working model first. Which will be problematic, my girlfriend's got about $2000 worth of dental work coming up that her insurance won't pay for. >_<

[Matt Thorn]

I see what you're getting at, Tyhm. A Zoetrope approach might possibly work to some extant, in that the blank bands directly facing the viewer would certainly overlap, and those to the sides would most likely allow some light to escape. But as a practical matter, I can't imagine how you would get it to work. You would need an inner and outer layer, and the spacing of the black bands on each would would have to be matched up perfectly, and would be determined by the exact circumference of each layer. Then there's also the probably that, even if you could somehow create these two perfectly matched layers, the PolyC would catch, reflect, and refract a certain amount of light, so even the middle of the blade would not be completely dark.

And the problem with polarization is clear from TimeRender's very nice explanation: darkening and lightening with polarization depends on two striated planes, one on top of the other, being at varying angles relative to each other. Grandpa John provides an explanation even a third grader could understand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgA6L2n476Y
:p
Now, there are polaroid filters that block light in only one direction, but I can't see how the polaroid effect can help us at all here.

The Lumisty film I introduced is, if I understand it correctly, basically a kind of Zoetrope effect--or Venetian blinds--on a molecular level. Which brings us back to the problem of the lone, impoverished hobbyist creating a black version of this film that was created by one of the largest chemical corporations on the planet. ;)

In other words, we're back to looking at gimmicky "X-Ray Glasses" kind of solutions, e.g., some variation on black electrical tape. :(

[Tyhm]

You would need an inner and outer layer, and the spacing of the black bands on each would would have to be matched up perfectly, and would be determined by the exact circumference of each layer.

If I had a 3/4" blade that fit in a 1" blade, a bit of electrical tape, a really good way of cutting the entire roll of tape at once, and a lot of time...or perhaps just a very clever dispersal mechanism...I could do it. Mark the inside and outside of the 3/4" tube , outside first with slightly lesser measures of clear than opaque, then the inside to cover the clear parts of the outside and accept that the inside will have much narrower clear sections. Probably only bother doing 90 degrees of the tube at first for a proof of concept, that's just a question of stretching 2 or 3 strips of electrical tape Straight Enough; then you bung the zebra-striped monstrosity inside a proper blade and see how it looks.

After that, the problem is elementary - just as you said, Circumference. We'll know the exact ID and OD of the tube, c=2πr, divide the c by however many stripes you want and there's your spacing. Give me the r's, I'll make the image to print in any size and resolution you like. Just a question of taking a 1x2 image (white on one pixel, black on the other) and resizing and tiling until you're happy with it.


Then there's also the probably that, even if you could somehow create these two perfectly matched layers, the PolyC would catch, reflect, and refract a certain amount of light, so even the middle of the blade would not be completely dark.

Which is what I was trying to get at with my rather clumsy and inflammatory post a few hours back: if our colleague on FX really is just sticking electrical tape on a saber "for the lulz", a working black saber with a bit of glare detracting from the total darkness at the core would still be perfectly viable. Then it's just a matter of reducing the ambient side-glow of the PC, and someone will start playing with different cleansing solutions or sandblasting or whatever, same as every other problem We The Community has overcome.


And because I'm a horrible capitalist swine, I've also got a mind to how this could end up in the shop; thick enough diffusion film printed with the narrow design on one side and the thick design on the other, rolled up and stuffed inside the saber, in a couple years every n00b starkiller cosplayer would have a black lightsaber. *shrugs* I want Tim to do well, he's always done right by us. Or you, I'm still new. :-D

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

I imagine everyone in this hobby wants Strydur to do well...who has done better by this hobby than TCSS? Besides Tim is just a heck of a good guy. That doesnt mean that we can't be supportive of someone else when they find something new, whether it might eventually end up in the shop here or not...and speaking of which here's the thing about things people think impossible; once one person finds one way to do something [even something thought impossible] pretty soon more people find more ways to do it...so if Senti has found a way to do it and people buy his solution whatever it may be then who knows maybe Strydur will find a way and put it in the shop if he feels there is enough market to justify that.

I had some doubts at first but I'm willing to admit when I've been wrong and think he may have something now and can wait to see what it is and how its done [he has said he will reveal his method]...there's no need to 'rush to judgment' or make assumptions that tape is involved when we can just wait and see what this is in due course.

Also iirc he said that it was flat from some angle...how does that translate into it being "2D" from every angle BUT one which it seems some of you think? If there are 360 degrees around the blade and it looks good from 340 of them and flat from 20 that would be a lot different than if its flat for 340 degrees and only looks good from 20 eh? What would be be 'good enough' for you? Video will show which it is closer to THEN you can decide for yourself if its good enough for your own use [even a mostly-flat effect might still be ok for a display piece] eh? No one is going to make anyone who doesnt like whatever effect he has achieved buy one eh? He hasn't taken deposits of anyone's money afaik. So
there is no reason for anyone to 'worry' they will be 'disappointed'. Lets be FAIR eh?

We NEED to see video which will answer a lot of questions...he will have to produce it soon and he must know that. Meanwhile why be negative? *in Anakin voice* I say PATIENCE.

[Count Malik]

here is the link (http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=24111.150) of the pictures of the "black blade" (Edit: He's calling them shadow blades now) posted in fx-saber forums.... Senti took the pics and created the blades... so all credit goes to him! :) with that being said its pretty cool and im not gunna lie about it. hehe

[Tyhm]

PS - the zoetrope kinda works. Proof Of Concept was hindered by my utter inability to get anything straight, but...

...from this first experiment it seems the width of the lines need to be narrower than the thickness of the tube dividing outer and inner zoetrope...otherwise you wind up with a really chunky movement at the edges. When I have more time and energy I'll try again...can't get the pictures off my phone, it's not much to look at anyway.

PPS - for the lensatic theory, I'll have to keep my eyes open but occasionally the dollar store will have something like an animated Shrek poster; a bit of careful peeling and scrubbing down with Goo Gone, that'd work for a proof of concept, no?

[edit again] Then you could probably buy a Lenticular Poster (http://cgi.ebay.com/lilo-and-stitch-27x40-original-LENTICULAR-POSTER-/180519392198?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a07cb53c6) and soak off the backing if the Proof of Concept works. :-D

[Matt Thorn]

PS - the zoetrope kinda works. Proof Of Concept was hindered by my utter inability to get anything straight, but...

...from this first experiment it seems the width of the lines need to be narrower than the thickness of the tube dividing outer and inner zoetrope...otherwise you wind up with a really chunky movement at the edges. When I have more time and energy I'll try again...can't get the pictures off my phone, it's not much to look at anyway.
There's one quandary. In order for light in the center to be blocked, the outer lines must be wider than the inner lines, and not just by factor corresponding with the larger circumference. But the narrower all the lines are, the less light will be revealed at the edges, and the more light will "leak" through the center, unless I'm mistaken.

PPS - for the lenticular theory, I'll have to keep my eyes open but occasionally the dollar store will have something like an animated Shrek poster; a bit of careful peeling and scrubbing down with Goo Gone, that'd work for a proof of concept, no?
Sorry if this ground has already been covered, but do we have any reason to believe that lenticular sheeting, blank or otherwise, will achieve the desired effect? How, exactly, will light be blocked at the center? You'll need something on the back...but what possible pattern would make the curved lenticular sheeting completely opaque when seen straight on, yet allow light through where it is curved?

I'll keep an open mind, but I have a feeling both of these approaches may prove to be dead ends.

[Tyhm]

Yeah, I'm going to have to do some more thinking about how I want the ratios set up. I found a couple round mason jars that fit into each other pretty well, should work better than trying to stick electrical tape on the Inside of one...and even with a fairly dim light I can approximate a Zoomed In black-saber.

As for lenticular, the idea as it was explained to me (and I am not the chief proponent of this theory, though it is intriguing) is that light attempting to shoot directly at the viewer will be shunted off to the side and miss them, and light attempting to shoot straight off to the sides will be shunted towards the viewer. Like surrounding the blade with beam splitters, or something; light can't go straight, but it can go every other direction. It's a rather more elegant, if complicated, theory with the same basis as my Zoetrope design. Thus, proof of concept; if the concept works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't, no sense spending more than a dollar to disprove it. :-P

[Matt Thorn]

As for lenticular, the idea as it was explained to me (and I am not the chief proponent of this theory, though it is intriguing) is that light attempting to shoot directly at the viewer will be shunted off to the side and miss them, and light attempting to shoot straight off to the sides will be shunted towards the viewer. Like surrounding the blade with beam splitters, or something; light can't go straight, but it can go every other direction.
Direct light would not be sent straight to the viewer's eye, but, as with PolyC, the material itself would be lit up to some degree or another, so while the edges might be significantly brighter than the center (I'm not convinced), you wouldn't have a "dark core." If the theory as you explain it actually worked, it would be just like a staggered, far less smooth version of what Lumisty does. :???:

I actually have no interest in owning a black-core saber, but it is fun as an intellectual exercise. :p

[Goltar Bias]

Question When you are saying "lensatic" do you mean "lenticular"? I believe any animated poster from the dollar store is most likely to be a lenticular print.
Also pluged "lensatic" in to google and got a lot about compasses and a mention about this thread but nothing else. The mention of this thread poped up after I put in "lensatic sheeting".

[Matt Thorn]

You are of course correct, Goltar. I was just repeating what Tyhm wrote without using the leetle gray cells. ;)

[Tyhm]

Right, one a them.

[Goltar Bias]

Just checking didn't want some one to read through and then get cofused, as that seems to have been the bane of this thread for a while.

[infa008]

im thinking the blade does not have a second core but some sort of different film for the inner wrap. I remember folks talking about using a mylar film in the blade tip to reflect some light through but still reflect down the tube. maybe it is some sort of film like those mirrors you can see through on one side and reflect from the other. that way the light would make it through to light up the poly but reflect anything from the outside making the center look dark and the edges light.

just a maybe?:confused:

[Matt Thorn]

im thinking the blade does not have a second core but some sort of different film for the inner wrap. I remember folks talking about using a mylar film in the blade tip to reflect some light through but still reflect down the tube. maybe it is some sort of film like those mirrors you can see through on one side and reflect from the other. that way the light would make it through to light up the poly but reflect anything from the outside making the center look dark and the edges light.

just a maybe?:confused:
Umm... That's not how those "mirrors" work. Did you ever notice in the cop shows, the interrogation room is lit, but the viewing room is dark? That's because the reflected light makes the window opaque on the lit side, but transparent on the side that isn't lit. In Japan, they used to have vending machines for erotic manga magazines. The glass was covered with that very kind of film, so that during the day, it acted like a mirror, and you couldn't see the contents. But at night, the inside of the machine would be lit up, and you could see everything. Weird analogy, I know, but I'm just trying to illustrate that the film would be pointless, since the light would be coming from the inside, and thus quite visible from the (presumably) darker exterior.

Regardless, even if there was a film like you describe, your idea of how it might work in a dark-core saber makes no sense. :???:

[Tyhm]

im thinking the blade does not have a second core but some sort of different film for the inner wrap. I remember folks talking about using a mylar film in the blade tip to reflect some light through but still reflect down the tube. maybe it is some sort of film like those mirrors you can see through on one side and reflect from the other. that way the light would make it through to light up the poly but reflect anything from the outside making the center look dark and the edges light.

just a maybe?:confused:

You're thinking, and I like that; the trouble is that for you to be able to see any light, the light has to travel from the source to your eyes. With the standard saber, it travels from the LED at the base, bends through the walls of the blade, and goes to your eyes; a perfect Black Core Blade would do that on the sides but not in the middle, From All Angles. A mylar or one-way-glass blade would either reflect all the light inside forever and appear black from the outside, or do nothing, or possibly just be a bit dimmer than normal, or maybe even fire all the light out one little crack haphazardly. Still, it's an idea: if we can transmit the light dimly and evenly all the way up to the tip, that might make some of the less likely theories work; a mylar wrap with little holes every so often near the base and bigger/more holes near the tip might do it, a sort of gradient, and let the infamous tendency of the PolyC to glow when lit cover the gaps...

It's probably not possible to get a perfectly Black blade, but I'd be quite happy with a Darkest In The Middle blade.

[Obi-Ben]

I think the problem coming up with a workable "black blade" is that people are approaching it counter intuitively. LED blades are at their core...lit by a core LED shining up the hollow tube. But in the black blade, you want something the complete opposite of that, right? So for this to work, you're going to need to come up with a new method of illumination. Here's my idea--tell me if you've heard this one before...

You start out with a smaller diameter clear polycarbonate tube. The inside is coated with a black opaque film or paint. That's your black core. Now around this tube you wrap a diffusing film. This completed assembly is then slid into another larger diameter clear polycarbonate tube. In order to illuminate it, you would need a series of smaller LEDs arranged in a circle pattern so they shine up the clear outer portion of the blade assembly. So when viewed on the side, you would have an effect of a dim center and brighter edges.

Here's a crude illustration of what I'm talking about:


http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2631/blackblade.jpg

I know it's not perfect, and it's not going to be very bright far from the emitter because there is no reflector at the end so it would have to be pretty short, but I think it would be interesting to see how this looks in practice.

[Sunrider]

I think a black core inside a led string would not work. Whatever is on the higher surfaces of the blade will be seen but anything under that would not. If you mean instead of one led in the blade holder you have say ten? Then if you lined them up with the edge of the blade tube? This would act kinda like a light tube but the sides of light tubes don't emit much light unless diffused. Then when diffused the black core would be lost & light would diminish rapidly down the length. Not to mention placing & powering so many leds would be pretty difficult. It could probably look better than electrical tape tho. :)

The lenticular lens film is the only way to make a core dark that i can think of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_lens

You would need to get it printed black instead of the blue in the center of the lobes as shown in this diagram.

http://www.microsharp.co.uk/uploads/pics/lenticular-film2.gif


Small black lines would be printed along the lens lines where the blue is and would be left clear or something that could pass light like one way mirror where the green & yellow are. This pattern would keep light from being emitted straight off the surface but not at an angle.

This is what is used for those stickers where the image changes when you turn it side to side. So if printed as above looking straight at the sticker it would be black, and if you looked at it at an angle you would see light if there were a source behind the sticker.

[Matt Thorn]

Obi-Ben, the pros and cons of that very idea have been discussed at length here (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=10928&highlight=black+blade+development). ;) I think at least a dozen different concepts (ranging from fundamentally flawed to theoretically-possible-but-impractical) have been discussed on that thread, so in order that we not be redundant, we might want to keep this thread on the topic of Senti's blade and use the other thread for more technical discussions. Just my two cents.

[Skottsaber]

I'm sure Lord Maul could do something about this.

DONE. ~LM

[Matt Thorn]

*ahem*
:D
Coming down with something, Skott? I hear Strep Throat is going around. You might want to have that looked at. :p

[Tyhm]

I think the problem coming up with a workable "black blade" is that people are approaching it counter intuitively. LED blades are at their core...lit by a core LED shining up the hollow tube. But in the black blade, you want something the complete opposite of that, right? So for this to work, you're going to need to come up with a new method of illumination. Here's my idea--tell me if you've heard this one before...

You start out with a smaller diameter clear polycarbonate tube. The inside is coated with a black opaque film or paint. That's your black core. Now around this tube you wrap a diffusing film. This completed assembly is then slid into another larger diameter clear polycarbonate tube. In order to illuminate it, you would need a series of smaller LEDs arranged in a circle pattern so they shine up the clear outer portion of the blade assembly. So when viewed on the side, you would have an effect of a dim center and brighter edges.

Here's a crude illustration of what I'm talking about:


http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2631/blackblade.jpg

I know it's not perfect, and it's not going to be very bright far from the emitter because there is no reflector at the end so it would have to be pretty short, but I think it would be interesting to see how this looks in practice.

I agree that it would make a dim core, and that it would only work for very short blades - you would have, effectively, 7 light sabers, each 1/4", around a central core. I haven't done a lot of (read - ANY) playing around with blade diameters, but I'm guessing you could get less than a foot of usable light out of that, even with custom optics on each LED. So - maybe possible someday.

I suggested a Finned core ( http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showpost.php?p=171605&postcount=105 ) might work - perhaps if you made a 3-bladed fin (looking like that car logo, you know the one?) of light-eating matte blackness and fitted it perfectly to a 3-LED board with the appropriate optics, you could get a decent Dim In The Middle, Bright At The Edges blade; then we just need to fine-tune it by finding some sort of filter that makes the brights brighter and the dims dimmer...but it'd be more accurate than the 2d version currently in existence.



The lenticular lens film is the only way to make a core dark that i can think of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_lens

You would need to get it printed black instead of the blue in the center of the lobes as shown in this diagram.

http://www.microsharp.co.uk/uploads/pics/lenticular-film2.gif


Small black lines would be printed along the lens lines where the blue is and would be left clear or something that could pass light like one way mirror where the green & yellow are. This pattern would keep light from being emitted straight off the surface but not at an angle.

This is what is used for those stickers where the image changes when you turn it side to side. So if printed as above looking straight at the sticker it would be black, and if you looked at it at an angle you would see light if there were a source behind the sticker.

Oh, there you are! Was looking for you. http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showpost.php?p=172327&postcount=90 - they're not as prohibitively expensive as one might ordinarily think...if you can get a dollar store lenticular poster and soak the backing in water/goo-gone/acetone until it's clear, you can at least test the theory for a buck and change; and if it works, you can eBay a full size poster for a modest investment and do the same process, probably get enough to make several sabers. The black stripes might be tricky, but if you have the right kind of feed-through printer you could probably get your computer to do it, or you could print on transparencies and glue them very carefully into place...

[Matt Thorn]

I agree that it would make a dim core, and that it would only work for very short blades[...]
<SNIP>
The black stripes might be tricky, but if you have the right kind of feed-through printer you could probably get your computer to do it, or you could print on transparencies and glue them very carefully into place...
Your above post consists of a purely speculative (and poorly informed) "assessment" of Obi-Ben's idea, and repetition of a purely speculative (and quite sketchy) idea you offered earlier, and have yet to actually test.

You would do well to follow the sternly-worded advice in your own signature. Build some sabers, then share what you've learned with us.

[Tyhm]

Tyhm, you are just full of advice and criticism, aren't you? Remind me again: Just how many sabers have you actually made? :neutral:
...

Ever hear the one about removing the log from your own eye before trying to remove the mote from your brother's? (Hint: Matthew 7:5 ;))

We're in a religious debate now?

I was just drawing Sun's attention to an unreplied-to suggestion on his own theory; dunno why you're biting my head off over it. As to the Very Short Lightsaber, talk to Timerender, it took me ages to even get the concession that it'd make any saber at all...and I Did qualify it that I Don't have experience in these matters. Feel free to prove me wrong; I still say the more distance between the LED and the "wall", the longer the effective range of the beam...

The hell, Thorn.

[Sunrider]

As for the lenticular idea it would have to be carefully thought out & professionally printed. It would also be expensive. The most ply able sheet and correct lens shape would need to be used. There are many different kinds of sheet. I'm guessing for 400 bucks you could get a sheet that would make a few blades but idk.

[cardcollector]

Tyhm
Cursing is not allowed here, we all know what you meant when you so rudely typed out your cute little symbols to Matt (who was trying to help you by the way). If you imply a word you might as well say it.:mad:

Follow the guidelines please.:???:

I'm beginning to tire of this...

[Matt Thorn]

Apologies to Tyhm for my overreaction and the tone of my post. It was more a reaction to a series of posts Tyhm has made and what I see as a pattern.

In all sincerity, Tyhm: read your own signature, then look back over your own posts; there's a contradiction there, though you may not see it. I believe your time would be better spent building some sabers, rather than critiquing others and offering advice based entirely on speculation that is not grounded in experience.

As for the lenticular idea, I think Sunrider pretty much nailed it. So far, the only theories that have been put forward and seem to stand up to scrutiny seem to be beyond the means of a lone hobbyist who does not have a few thousand dollars to throw around. Though I have no doubt there are possibilities we have yet to think of.

[Tyhm]

We're in a religious debate now?

I was just drawing Sun's attention to an unreplied-to suggestion on his own theory; dunno why you're biting my head off over it. As to the Very Short Lightsaber, talk to Timerender, it took me ages to even get the concession that it'd make any saber at all...and I Did qualify it that I Don't have experience in these matters. Feel free to prove me wrong; I still say the more distance between the LED and the "wall", the longer the effective range of the beam...

The hell, Thorn.


Tyhm
Cursing is not allowed here, we all know what you meant when you so rudely typed out your cute little symbols to Matt (who was trying to help you by the way). If you imply a word you might as well say it.:mad:

Follow the guidelines please.:???:

I'm beginning to tire of this...

??? Cute little symbols? Are we not allowed to say Hell in a religious debate or something? ;-)
I really don't see where I was censored...

(added)


As for the lenticular idea it would have to be carefully thought out & professionally printed. It would also be expensive. The most ply able sheet and correct lens shape would need to be used. There are many different kinds of sheet. I'm guessing for 400 bucks you could get a sheet that would make a few blades but idk.

Did I post you that thing on youtube? Hangon, I'll see if I can find it again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvvcRdwNhGM&feature=player_embedded
Apparently there's a book...? I'm not really sure, I haven't looked too deeply into it, but it's Possible to print this kind of stuff, so maybe...but yeah, it would be a nontrivial task to print one big enough for a whole lightsaber, AND glue it Evenly to the inside of a sheet, AND in such a way that it maintains its position when rolled...that last part would be easier if you happened to have access to one of those giant Blueprint printers that architects use, and if you could feed through the lens sheet, and if it fed through perfectly...the mind boggles, but still, we could test the theory. I'll keep my eyes peeled next time I'm at the dollar store. :-D


Apologies to Tyhm for my overreaction and the tone of my post. It was more a reaction to a series of posts Tyhm has made and what I see as a pattern.

In all sincerity, Tyhm: read your own signature, then look back over your own posts; there's a contradiction there, though you may not see it. I believe your time would be better spent building some sabers, rather than critiquing others and offering advice based entirely on speculation that is not grounded in experience.

As for the lenticular idea, I think Sunrider pretty much nailed it. So far, the only theories that have been put forward and seem to stand up to scrutiny seem to be beyond the means of a lone hobbyist who does not have a few thousand dollars to throw around. Though I have no doubt there are possibilities we have yet to think of.

Yes, I have a pattern of getting grumpy and defensive; you guys are the elites of the saber building community and have a tendency towards elitism, and a thin skin when it comes to getting called on it. Life goes on; I've given up on the assumption I can improve the community as a newbie, or that I can contribute meaningfully to the big boys' tech talk, and even that I have a better perspective on a newbie's first impressions of this place anymore. But this theory interests me, so I'm still here. I like the impossible. :-D

[Novastar]

[[begin warning]] This thread is getting a little "out-of-pocket". Please check yourselves at the door, and keep things to HEALTHY discussion... not just PLAIN discussion. :)

--your friendly, neighborhood Novastar [[end warning]]

.
.

Although I've little to add to this thread, I will say that Yoda (of FX-Sabers) and I talked about lenticular-style work on polycarbonate blades as far back as 2008 or so... but yes indeed... as Matt T. & Sunrider noted... that's an expensive (read: EXPEN$$$$IVE) and nightmare-ishly challenging engineering project... even for the best of 'em.

And this was simply about a "normal" lighting system (for non-"black" sabers), all about making blades take FULL (??) advantage of the (already limited) light output that comes from the whole main setup we're all used to using. That being a single, high-powered LED with a normal reflection angle of >=120 deg that is then optically altered to something more akin to 10 or 20 deg, WHICH is then promptly shoved into a long 1" diameter tube, WHICH is then diffused by non-specific materials (such as polypropylene... "gift wrap").

Needless to say... this thread actually cracks me up... since... we've all been spending so much time trying to BRIGHTEN our blade setups over the years--it's simply flabbergasting to me that people are (possibly?) seriously considering ways to DARKEN their setups, heheheh! :)

[Matt Thorn]

[[begin warning]] This thread is getting a little "out-of-pocket". Please check yourselves at the door, and keep things to HEALTHY discussion... not just PLAIN discussion. :)

--your friendly, neighborhood Novastar [[end warning]]
Noted. :oops:

Although I've little to add to this thread, I will say that Yoda (of FX-Sabers) and I talked about lenticular-style work on polycarbonate blades as far back as 2008 or so... but yes indeed... as Matt T. & Sunrider noted... that's an expensive (read: EXPEN$$$$IVE) and nightmare-ishly challenging engineering project... even for the best of 'em.
And then there's an issue we haven't even touched on: Once you've installed this intricate and expensive lenticular blade, you promptly ruin it the first time you try duel by putting countless dents in the lenticular surface. :|

[Sunrider]

Needless to say... this thread actually cracks me up... since... we've all been spending so much time trying to BRIGHTEN our blade setups over the years--it's simply flabbergasting to me that people are (possibly?) seriously considering ways to DARKEN their setups, heheheh!

Don't get me started Nova. I wish it would go away. It's like a video game did a jedi mind trick on people. The idea makes no sense. What's next? A stealth lightsaber with anti sound chamber? :roll:

[TimeRender]

I'll do one better SR. I've got a stealth lightsaber with an anti-sound chamber, and the whole thing is made out of invisitanium. It's weighs next to nothing. Actually, I've got about a thousand of them. I'd offer to sell you one but that would violate the "no soliciting" policy. It's too bad too, because these things are amazing!

[Matt Thorn]

I'll do one better SR. I've got a stealth lightsaber with an anti-sound chamber, and the whole thing is made out of invisitanium. It's weighs next to nothing. Actually, I've got about a thousand of them. I'd offer to sell you one but that would violate the "no soliciting" policy. It's too bad too, because these things are amazing!
I actually stole one of those from TimeRender, though, naturally, he failed to notice its absence. Here it is in all its glory.
http://www.ultraforcesabers.com/files/1861163/uploaded/MRP-SW000-2.jpg

[TimeRender]

Jerk.

Edit: But since you're a such nice guy, I'll allow you to pay me for it in imperceptibucks.

[Matt Thorn]

Jerk.

Edit: But since you're a such nice guy, I'll allow you to pay me for it in imperceptibucks.
Consider it paid, with interest. I am just rolling in imperceptibucks. And for some reason, my bank won't exchange them for yen.

[Sunrider]

Consider it paid, with interest. I am just rolling in imperceptibucks. And for some reason, my bank won't exchange them for yen.

Stupid bank don't they know how to authenticate imperceptibucks.:wink:

The saber is beautiful btw.

[Matt Thorn]

The saber is beautiful btw.
I think it's safe to say that there is not a flaw to be found.

[psab keel]

Republic Credits?

Sorry Matt, it only seemed appropriate considering the picture of Qui-Gon in your signature! haha

Psab

[Matt Thorn]

Republic Credits?

Sorry Matt, it only seemed appropriate considering the picture of Qui-Gon in your signature! haha

Psab
Yeah, I tried that at the bank.

Teller: "I'm sorry, Sir, but your invisible money is no good here. I need something more real."
Matt: "I don't have anything else." <waves hand> "But imperceptibucks will do fine."
Teller: "No, Sir, they won't."
Matt: <waves hand again> "Imperceptibucks will do fine."
Teller: "Sir, other customers are waiting, and I'd rather not have to call security."

[Tyhm]

Heheh. Or QUID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi_Universal_Intergalactic_Denomination).

Dangit, I was just at 4 dollar stores and didn't even look...wrong shopping list.

I'm wicked curious if the concept pans out...

Yeah, there probably is a tendency amongst those of us that came in well after the brightness threshold was crossed to be more fascinated with copying dumb stuff from a video game we'd never even heard about until this thread, but it's to be expected - we can't very well contribute to anything fundamental, so we try for the niche. *shrugs*

As for the denting issue - you put the wrap inside the tube, not outside or instead-of. Would work, yes?

[Matt Thorn]

Heheh. Or QUID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi_Universal_Intergalactic_Denomination).
I hadn't known about QUID. Thanks for the link. ;)

As for the denting issue - you put the wrap inside the tube, not outside or instead-of. Would work, yes?
It would solve the problem of denting, but create a whole new problem, since the PolyC tube distorts light in its own way, and would certainly wreak havoc on any optical effect created by the lenticular lens.

If you get a chance to test it, let us know how it works out.

[Tyhm]

I hadn't known about QUID. Thanks for the link. ;)

It would solve the problem of denting, but create a whole new problem, since the PolyC tube distorts light in its own way, and would certainly wreak havoc on any optical effect created by the lenticular lens.

If you get a chance to test it, let us know how it works out.

(OT - I love how bipolar we all are here. At each others throats one week, playing nicely the next. Beats the alternative!)

Got a Shrek Lenticular Poster for 50c; it's about 8 inches by 5, and unfortunately has a plastic backing, but I'll see if I can peel it off somehow and apply my usual stock of polyc to at least get an elementary test down...can probably print a few sheets of black-and-white alternating lines too. Ah, science-ing on a budget...

[yell0w_lantern]

(OT - I love how bipolar we all are here. At each others throats one week, playing nicely the next. Beats the alternative!)


That's more Borderline Personality disorder than Bipolar disorder. Although if someone was acutely manic you might see shifts like that but it would probbaly be over an even shorter time.

[Tyhm]

Capricious then. Beats being steadily violently negative anyway.

Scraped the paint off, no major difficulties. Working on printing in the right DPI; a 1:1 gradient at 100 DPI looks like 2-on-2-off...a 2:2 gets lines inebtween the 2 pixels, so it's sharper than 100DPI...1 on 3 off, every other line is thinner through the lens...wish I could send you guys a picture, it's wild, but it's so small...